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Old 03-08-2012, 07:26 AM   #16
Narsisco Lopez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alshaffer View Post
I've ridden tubeless TKC-80s on my BMW 1200GS, so yes (assuming you consider those knobbies).

Here's a dumb question: if I convert my tubed rims to tubeless, do I also need to buy tubeless tires? Or is a tire just a tire? I've ridden both tubed and tubeless, but never thought about converting one to the other.

The Heidenau K60 Scouts I just got are tubeless (at least that's what the sidewall says), but yeah... the stock front rim doesn't have a safety bead.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:21 AM   #17
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I've been using the TuBliss system on my dirtbikes this past year. See; http://tubliss.com/

These work great, but are not available in the wide sizes for the 9xx ADV bikes.

The tape system you've found is very similar to what is used on mountain bikes. That's my experience. See; http://www.notubes.com/

One seals the spoke area with tape and a specific valve. Then mounts the tire and pours in sealant. The sealant seals the tire's edges and the carcass. Tubeless tires have a non-permeable liner. Tube tires do not, so the sealant is needed to seal the sidewalls.

Not all tires will seal on all rims. And a big air compressor is needed to blow the sidewalls out fast enough to begin the sealing.

The drawbacks are all related to getting the tire beads seated and sealed before the air pressure is gone. Once seated, most tires are good to go.

The benefit is no tubes and no pinch flats.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:46 AM   #18
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Apologise for being ignorant whats the advantage of a tubless tire when we speak about bikes used off roads?
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:18 AM   #19
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Quick and easy repairs in the field with a plug kit. Changing a tube in the field can be a pain (breaking the bead etc). Plus, tubes get hot at high speeds and can fail.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:34 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by sonoran View Post
This looks promising.

Who's gonna be the OC guinea pig?
two of my riding buddies (HEY BUZZ N YAMMY!!!) have beat the shit out of their bikes with this system. one of them uses a trials tire @ 10PSI or so, no issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66iVFMw6Fg0

just some of the stuff he put his husky 610 through last weekend. buzz is on a dr650.

later guys !
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by mcmann View Post
Quick and easy repairs in the field with a plug kit. Changing a tube in the field can be a pain (breaking the bead etc). Plus, tubes get hot at high speeds and can fail.

I may give it a try on my Woodys Canyon Set . . . . good find.
Thanks mcmann. I prefer tubes, never seen one fail after going fast even on German highways. Sure a tube repair in the field is no fun, but I can go on even with a badly bent rim or a huge cut in the sidewall, I would not go on an adventure ride with tubless rims. Never
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Steveman View Post
Apologise for being ignorant whats the advantage of a tubless tire when we speak about bikes used off roads?
a plug kit is 4 minutes of 'work' if/when a nail or thorn punctures the tire...

vs

full wheel removal, then tube removal, then new tube ($20), then tire seat, hand pump, and reinstall the wheel again.

if you're like me, 4-5 minutes with a plug kit beats 30 minutes of "where the hell did that washer go ?!"


(i'll be running this setup fall of this year. i hope.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:29 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Steveman View Post
whats the advantage of a tubeless tire when we speak about bikes used off roads? ........................ I would not go on an adventure ride with tubless rims. Never

The advantages transformed the automotive tire industry on a global scale. (Not to long ago they were all tube)


Cons .... With an inner tube you get all of this:

Extra Weight Causing ... extra heat by more mass
Extra Weight Causing ... even more weight added to balance the wheel
Extra Weight Causing ... loss of over all breaking efficiency
Extra Weight Causing ... characteristic changes of tire at high speeds
Extra Weight Causing ... Faster wear on tire tread due to added heat

More Flats By ... pinches (during installation or later by hitting a pot hole)
More Flats By ... valve stem attachment point failure (rust)

Water gets inside the wheel at the valve stem
Tires slip on rim at high torque (balance lost)
If you are not mechanically inclined you PAY for every flat
Add extra weight to bike with spare tube, tire irons and patch kit


Pros ..... Fixed all of the above! ...

Plus

When you get a flat ... Don’t take the wheel off of the bike, don’t take the tire off of the wheel, don’t repair a tube, don’t spend 45 minutes +/- of your buddies riding time waiting on you ......... With a tubeless tire just plug it and go ...

Personally I have gone on many miles of asphalt, dirt and single track with a system very much like this one. Factory rims and I really, really liked it ... At first I was very mindful of doing something unconventional and not being able to take my mind off of the fact that I didn't have a tube in there but after taking some pretty tough poundings I began to trust it. Before long it became (to me) the best aftermarket item on my bike.

I agree with you on the bent rim and sliced tire ... That could be a day ender with a tubeless ..... In that case (with both) I think I would have to pound the rim back as best I could then zip tie the tire to the rim (through the spokes [around the tire and the rim] between the knobs) in multiple places and slow ride out of there.

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Old 03-09-2012, 09:37 AM   #24
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Mh... most of the cons you mention are no cons in real world long distance driving. But this you know, who cares about heat and balancing? I mean that is from a physical standpoint a con, but in reality? Breaking performance? Come on...

Even in my EXC (and also in my F8GS) I use tubes... but thats another story....

I could understand if you are just on a Saturday ride with buddies but somwhere out in the sticks 200mls from the next village I would never use tubeless tires.

However, the good thing is, we can choose what we use, so no real problem there. I was just curious what's the idea behind
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:57 AM   #25
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sweet. that video was passed around about a year ago but no one could find a supplier in the US at the time.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:41 AM   #26
Platypus-3in1
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Originally Posted by Steveman View Post
Mh... most of the cons you mention are no cons in real world long distance driving. But this you know, who cares about heat and balancing? I mean that is from a physical standpoint a con, but in reality? Breaking performance? Come on...

Even in my EXC (and also in my F8GS) I use tubes... but thats another story....

I could understand if you are just on a Saturday ride with buddies but somewhere out in the sticks 200mls from the next village I would never use tubeless tires.

However, the good thing is, we can choose what we use, so no real problem there. I was just curious what's the idea behind

Yea ... No Problem! I was searching the answer of "whats the advantage of a tubeless tire" ... What, if "any" redeemable qualities could there possibly be to consider going tubeless? And I was tickled with myself to have found all that I did ...

In the real world what I like about it is not the heat loss, weight reduction or balancing ... I could care less about that!

The two things that are practical to me in the real world is the money savings and not carrying extra tubes, tire irons and patching kits.

For me tubeless = No more $65.00 set of tuff tubes every time I buy a new set of tires (I pinched the last rear tube twice trying to force the Kenda Big Block on ... After remounting it more than once I gave up and took it to the dealer ... I think they charged me $60+ ... Lesson learned, no more Kenda BB's with tubes) ...

You are right ... all the little things I mentioned don't matter! But they do sound more positive than negative ... yes?
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #27
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This'll come as no surprise to anyone here, but I'm confused.

I've seen the advantages of tubeless tires on motorcycles specifically mention that tubeless tires tend not to catastrophically fail like tubed tires, and deflation from a puncture with a tubeless characterized as slower and more controlled than that with a tubed tire, which is why tubed tires for the street should have a safety bead or beadlock, while none is required for tubeless tires.

But, in this thread there are statements that are the opposite of this, that because there is no safety bead on the 990 front that a tubeless conversion may be less safe than a tubed tire.

Due to the potential for rim damage in the front I'd be less than inclined to run this conversion in the front anyway, but the disparity of the two positions intrigues me. Who's right? Is anyone? If the "conventional wisdom" that tubed tires need a satey bead or beadlock on the street is correct, why don't we have either on the adventures?

I've never noticed a "safety bead" on any motorcycle wheel that comes stock tubeless, but I don't typically change those myself, either.

Steve
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #28
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I just went out to my supply of favorite tires in the garage...

Dunlop 606 21" Tube Type

Dunlop 908 18" Tube Type

Heidenau K60 18" Tubeless


I know this has been discussed. My understanding is a Tube Type tire may not hold air as well.. Good enough for me. Don't do it.

Also, I would go tubeless on the rear for all the reasons mentioned, EXCEPT I would still carry a tube just in case I damage the rim.. It is considered acceptable to use a 21" tube in an 18" wheel to get you home.



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Old 03-09-2012, 11:15 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Alleycatdad View Post
This'll come as no surprise to anyone here, but I'm confused.

I've seen the advantages of tubeless tires on motorcycles specifically mention that tubeless tires tend not to catastrophically fail like tubed tires, and deflation from a puncture with a tubeless characterized as slower and more controlled than that with a tubed tire, which is why tubed tires for the street should have a safety bead or beadlock, while none is required for tubeless tires.

But, in this thread there are statements that are the opposite of this, that because there is no safety bead on the 990 front that a tubeless conversion may be less safe than a tubed tire.

Due to the potential for rim damage in the front I'd be less than inclined to run this conversion in the front anyway, but the disparity of the two positions intrigues me. Who's right? Is anyone? If the "conventional wisdom" that tubed tires need a satey bead or beadlock on the street is correct, why don't we have either on the adventures?

I've never noticed a "safety bead" on any motorcycle wheel that somes stock tubeless, but I don't typically change those myself, either.

Steve
Good Question!

When i was considering doing a conversion that was something I wanted to know as well.

Isnít the safety bead an added selling point for buying their rim? I think I read once that it was extra safety in the case of a flat at interstate speeds that will aid in keeping the tire from coming out of the rim and causing you to crash NOW ... Giving the added chance to slow the bike to a stop in a somewhat controlled warble?

I first went with this system (front & back) on my KLR650 ... Factory pressed metal rims ... No safety beads ... Iíve worn out both tubeless rated tires and non tubeless rated tires with some nice knobs.

What surprised me the most was checking the air before each ride ... Both tubeless and non-tubeless rated tires held air better than any tube Iíve ever had in there. After a month I was consistently about a pound low but I figured that was from me loosing air checking it so much.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:36 AM   #30
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Another thing I learned:

After the "Cyborg" wheel seal on the rear stock wheel I mounted up a 908. Others have done this, and it appears to work just fine because of the stiff sidewall, even though it is designated as a "tubed" type tire. I rode all last summer on that bad boy, spitting rocks and sliding around three or more states including the Montana 1000 ride (1000 miles off-pavement). The sealing job on the spoke nipples held air the whole time, BUT...

By the end the 908 was cut up, I assume by rocks and such (and I wear my tires down FAR, get my damn money's worth! ), the carcass was "weeping" air. No big puncture or anything, but at least a dozen teeny pores that were revealed by soapy water. There were too many to be worth while to plug (and the tire was well toasted anyway), and they sure were teeny... To make 500 miles to my next stop I had to air up several times. So my conclusion is that for the way I ride the TIRE is not up to the task, and from what I gather the 908 is about as tough as they come for our big beasties... Had I been running tubes I would've happily shredded another couple hundred miles, pavement or dirt and been blissfully ignorant.

It was nice while it lasted! I didn't even get to use my plug kit... I decided right then that it's tubes for me for off-road. Yes it's a pain, but they are old-school, proven, known, abundant, relatively cheap, etc... And I'm getting my tire changing procedure down, but it still realistically takes 45 min.

Now, for my STREET wheels it's a diff story! This tape stuff might be the ballz for the 19/17s. Plugs are easy, the tires are made for it, and AAA is never far away on the paved road.
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