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Old 04-28-2012, 05:06 AM   #61
woody's wheel works
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well ,ya spoke too soon me'thinks,,,

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Originally Posted by Narsisco Lopez View Post
Just an update: While it looks sloppy, my tubeless rear (many thanks to the mystery person who did it... the PO never replied to my questions about who did it and when) is holding solid pressure. I've put 500 miles on my new K60s and haven't had to add any air to the rear. Very happy... so far.
we're there for ya,,,and we'll get to the bottom of your new found leak
w
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:14 AM   #62
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what is the safety bead??/

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Originally Posted by BaronVonDarrin View Post
What is a safety bead?

Love,
newb

FYI,,,the lil ridge on the edge of the bead that the tire has to jump over to seat itself,,,AND which more importantly keeps the tire from popping/sliding off the bead in event of air pressure loss...

it normally gives ya an extra second or two in event of tire deflation

FYI rims without safety beads have an enhance drisk of the tire sliding off the ebad more rapidly,,not an optimal situation for tubeless conditions

HINT,,,HINT..my and others experience tells me that any tim ei experience vague handling ,,i look for the quickest safest way to slow down and stabilize my bike before stopping to check what's up...

you do not want to experience tires coming unseated,,,from the rim ,,,NOT much fun

woody
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:44 AM   #63
Chuckracer
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This is how I did mine two years and a lot of miles ago...dead solid air pressures.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:15 PM   #64
Tatsubon
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Thanks for the Tips Woody,

Wished that I had picked up a tube of Goop instead of Seal All. That stuff really shrinks! Had 3 applications put on over 3 days to level out those cavities.

Another important discovery : "Do Not Use Simple Green" Not Aluminum friendly at all. I'm going to switch to Zep Citris instead. Higher PH is what you'd want for Al prep. Glad I spent the extra few minutes to dig around online.

As Woody had said rule #1 and #2 are most important.

Even the Outex instructions mentioned detailed steps to preparing your surface.

1. Sand down rough surfaces around weld joint and protrusion from spoke nipples.
2. Wipe with Acetone
3. Wipe clean with an Alkaline Cleaner
4. Use a hot air drier to make sure the surface is absolutely dry.
5. Do not touch surface due to oils from your skin. Use cotton gloves supplied.

Not interested in translating the other steps but it pertains to the application of the tape.

Now time to get down to it.

Will update with pics later tonight.

- Tatsubon
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:10 PM   #65
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Quick Update

- Took less than 40 minutes to apply the Outex.
- 5 minutes to spoon the tire on.

- 30 minutes and counting trying to get that bead to seat.

The road block seems to be setting that bead over the safety bead.
Searching online has suggested using a ratchet strap to push out that bead.
Going to give it a try and see if it works or not.........

- Tatsubon

Tatsubon screwed with this post 04-28-2012 at 04:23 PM
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:24 PM   #66
woody's wheel works
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the secret to chuckracers success..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer View Post
This is how I did mine two years and a lot of miles ago...dead solid air pressures.
once again the secret to this technique working is reiterated in my previous post..
1,clenliness

2,, patience ,,ie allowing each of his steps to totally cure

we also tried this technique,,,i did it and it worked,, i wasn't impressed with the seal all shrinking...

what didn't work is when my guys tried to hurry up and apply more coats to the surface dried layer ,,ie it felt dry to the touch BUT was really not cure throughout..hence the subsurface was still soft enough to eventually surrender to th eair pressure and hence provide tiny avenues of escape days and or weeks later...and i'm talking of miniscule airleaks that would take minutes for the tiniest trace of foam to appear..

nuff said
woody
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:22 PM   #67
Tatsubon
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Success

Filled the tub and soaking it right now.

The Ratchet was the trick. Took 100psi to pop that bead with a BANG and a spray of soapy that reached the ceiling
Knew It was going to be scary when you see the bulge of that sidewall.

Keeping my fingers crossed that it will hold well. Only time will tell.
And now for some pics.


Clean and Blow Dry

First Layer of Double Sided Stuff Applied. Shows some Wrinkles but have no trapped air bubbles except from that Seal All. Get yourself a comfy chair next to your favorite bev. with a straw:) Using a soft plastic sharpie to rub it on helps you save your thumb. Wore a hole in my glove within the first 5 minutes.

The outer plastic layer that bonds to the first double sided layer. There is a patch that goes over the seam of the second layer. Note that the first seam line is covered and the top layer is on the opposite side of the valve.

This bead breaker is my buddy! This was what that helped me put on that tire in less than 5 minutes.
A regular bead buddy would not be able to push it far past that safety bead.



And now for the test of time. No bubbles allowed in this bath

Thanks for reading

- Tatsubon
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #68
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My two cents

I know I'm late to the party here but heres my two cents. I travel two up and loaded on trips with the wife. I have melted a tube in Baja from the heat that generated from an HD tube, speed and weight. I have sealed my rear rim with Cyborgs method and so far so good. The rear rim still gets too hot to touch from time to time on long hauls and it freaks me out but with no tube to melt it gives me piece of mind. I always bring an extra tube with me to throw in for a side wall tear, and its always easy to swap back to tubes for emergency's.

Cheers!
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:25 AM   #69
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misc info n answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleefurd View Post
Woody,
Once those Superlace SS spokes are powder coated (paid order #962 April 26th) and sent along with the new Excel rims, I'll order the Outex. Not sure what spec's to attach to my Outex order w/o the rims in front of me.
all they need to know is the rim brand/sizes ya have listed below,,,you can look through their catalog and see which kit matches yhe rims ya have


Got any spec's for which Outex package will fit the rims you are sending my way? Would speed things up on my end if the Outex were here waiting for your rims/spokes.
  • Excel A60 21x1.6
  • Excel 18x3.5
Thanks for the gap filling SG tip.
Do you recommend any scuffing of the rim surface on these new rims being shipped from your shop? use the same techniques you've read before,,,i scotch-brite with acetone or de-natured alchhol,,,CLEAN hands,,,and ya remember that most any ss and ss spoke /nipple kit used ,will have that brown oily anti-seize jism on the threads of spokes and in the nipples...that has to be cleaned off !!!
Thanks.
Kip

w
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:10 AM   #70
Narsisco Lopez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narsisco Lopez View Post
Just an update: While it looks sloppy, my tubeless rear (many thanks to the mystery person who did it... the PO never replied to my questions about who did it and when) is holding solid pressure. I've put 500 miles on my new K60s and haven't had to add any air to the rear. Very happy... so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody's wheel works View Post
we're there for ya,,,and we'll get to the bottom of your new found leak
w
A big thanks to your guys, Woody

We found a few of the seals leaking and I was just about to have 'em strip the old seals off and re-do it RIGHT (aka: the Woody's Way ) when I pointed out the little "love bite" I'd put into the new K60 when spooning it on (serves me right for picking the rear as my very first tire change attempt). They recommended that they pop in a tube so I can burn off the new rubber, then bring the wheel back in for a proper seal job when I'm ready for a new rear tire. Great advice... no one likes to waste perfectly good rubber, right?

Just wanted to let you know I'm super-impressed with your shop and the integrity of your people... 2 big thumbs UP!

By the way, I was able to see a rim in process of being sealed and was walked through your process. While the Outex seems like a great solution for the do-it-yourselfers, I'm convinced your method is rock-solid and the way to go... again, I'll be back in a few thousand miles to have it done right.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:25 PM   #71
johnkol
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Has anyone had a problem with sealing the spokes? I did the Goop sealing of individual spokes, and although this technique worked great with the front wheel, I've had no luck with the rear ones: a few spokes leak, I reseal them, they hold air, but then a few other spokes start leaking -- I've gone through this cycle five times already and it is getting a bit frustrating. Had I not been successful with the front I would have given up and re-installed a tube, but since I know it is doable, I am trying to figure out why the rear is so obstinate.

Any similar experiences out there?
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:08 PM   #72
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Prep.
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I used to say "one day" a lot. But then I got scared I would wait one day too long. So I am doing it all now
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #73
slackmeyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
Has anyone had a problem with sealing the spokes? I did the Goop sealing of individual spokes, and although this technique worked great with the front wheel, I've had no luck with the rear ones: a few spokes leak, I reseal them, they hold air, but then a few other spokes start leaking -- I've gone through this cycle five times already and it is getting a bit frustrating. Had I not been successful with the front I would have given up and re-installed a tube, but since I know it is doable, I am trying to figure out why the rear is so obstinate.

Any similar experiences out there?
Yep, I had that a few times with the seal all and goop (and very careful prep). I changed the way I sealed wheels, now I superglue the spokes, then spread an even layer of polyurethane sealant over the whole thing, using a rubber spreader cut to rest on the edges of the rim. I also get the balance of the wheel close while I'm spreading this stuff. No leaks in the last year since I started doing it this way. With the goop, I'd have a good sealed wheel for a few months, then I'd start getting really slow leaks around one or two spokes. . . .
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:52 PM   #74
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackmeyer View Post
Yep, I had that a few times with the seal all and goop (and very careful prep). I changed the way I sealed wheels, now I superglue the spokes, then spread an even layer of polyurethane sealant over the whole thing, using a rubber spreader cut to rest on the edges of the rim.
Thanks for the confirmation! At least now I know I'm not a basket case. I also prepped both wheels very carefully, so I'm at a loss to explain why everything worked fine with the front wheel but not with the back.

Superglue?? I had never heard of that before. Do you apply it to the spoke/nipple threads, or all around the nipple (or maybe both)?

Superglue is really strong adhesive, I don't think one would be able to adjust their spokes ever again. Was this a consideration with this method? (I had the spokes tightened and adjusted professionally prior to sealing them).

What kind of polyurethane sealant do you use? The one commonly used for home applications?

Thanks again!
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:12 PM   #75
slackmeyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
Thanks for the confirmation! At least now I know I'm not a basket case. I also prepped both wheels very carefully, so I'm at a loss to explain why everything worked fine with the front wheel but not with the back.

Superglue?? I had never heard of that before. Do you apply it to the spoke/nipple threads, or all around the nipple (or maybe both)?

Superglue is really strong adhesive, I don't think one would be able to adjust their spokes ever again. Was this a consideration with this method? (I had the spokes tightened and adjusted professionally prior to sealing them).

What kind of polyurethane sealant do you use? The one commonly used for home applications?

Thanks again!

Woody suggested superglue- it is strong, but it's brittle. I wouldn't trust it to hold air by itself, because I'm sure it will form little cracks in use, but it keeps the softer polyurethane sealant from pushing out. As far as adjusting spokes, I've not had a loose spoke on this bike (57k miles so far), though I have on other bikes. I decided that I'd cross that bridge when I come to it, it will probably require at least digging out the sealant over that spoke nipple.

I used sikaflex 1a, available at most lumberyards- it's a strong sealant, but not too strong (I looked into using the 3m marine sealant- great seal, but way too strong for this application). Only thing I would have liked was a sealant that cured faster, 1a takes a few days to get to where I mounted the tire.





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