1999 Beta Alp questions - Page 2

Rockcat · 03-20-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeMonkee

I know Rekluse makes auto-clutches for the later model Betas, is there one that would fit this bike??

You might give Rekluse a call. They made the z-start pro for KTM 2 strokes in the same year and one may just fit.

CodeMonkee · 03-20-2012, 06:41 PM

I have not had the problem with freewheeling with the Rekluse in my Hussy. Sure, if you stop and then roll on, then the clutch doesn't engage without blipping the throttle.

It's too bad Revlock decided to quit making clutches - they had one that was adjustable on the fly.

Yeah, I have seen EFM, and if I decide I really want one I may ping them on it. But was just weighing the options first.

Pro_Marinero · 03-22-2012, 08:41 AM

Monkee you sound a lot like my dad. He had the same conundrum as you; long-time rider, wasn't happy with his off-road skills, wanted something easier to handle and keep up on the gnarly trails I like to ride.

He had started with a KLX650R - Kawi's answer to the BRP back when the BRP was still just a XR600R. Great desert race bike, horrible on trails. Moved to a KLX300R. I had purchased a Husaberg FX470 with a Rekluse and loved it. He tried it and wanted one too, but the only answer was EFM. It never worked right compared to a Rekluse.

Then I bought a GG TXT270 and started doing the really nasty stuff. He tried my bike and really realized how much he needed to work on the basics in the backyard to get better, but he wanted one with a seat to ride trails with me. I had previously had a Reflex and he knew that one sucked. He looked at all kinds of ebay seats for trials bikes, even considered Alps and Pamperas. In the end he bought a very clean TXT280 and I told him if he wanted to ride with me he was going to have to suck it up and stand.

We now do 10-20 mile rides with extra fuel and he's fine with it. Tired yes, but still realizes how much the seat would be in the way on these rides. Seats only really make a difference on road rides (we both have plated TXT's but only ride them on gravel FS roads) or long downhill stretches. He simply takes more breaks and we talk more on the trail.

The only seat I would get would be the Buttrest simply because I can take it off and put it in the backpack or flip it around on the fender. It's also in a much better spot up on the subframe than the "valley" type seat which is what the Alp and Reflex have. I'm also 6-6 and about the same weight. Riding my Reflex seat was a joke. My knees were completely useless for weighting pegs as they were so far up. I put 6" rise bars on the new TXT321 and a heavier rear spring. It's now perfect and very comfortable to ride for long periods of time.

Really the idea of "I have to stand and there's not seat?" is more of a mental block. My dad is always uncomfortable for the first 500 yards and then fine after that. He feels like he's not going to make it, but your brain gets over that pretty quick. Congrats on the Alp and you will easily sell it for what you paid, but I think you're going to quickly find its limits. Also, an autoclutch on a trials bike is a mistake. Pops was thinking the same thing, but I had him go out and ride his bike over a few obstacles and note where the RPMs were. He realized that he would be in the engage/disengage point a lot of the time and trying to time it would be a big problem. You will be much happier with a clutch. They are butter-smooth to operate. This is coming from a self-proclaimed lazy rider with a Rekluse and left-hand rear brake.

You will find that on a true trials bike you will learn faster and tackle far harder trails with ease, plus your Berg riding will improve as well. If you're trying to do it on something like an Alp or Reflex, you will be fighting the seat and won't learn the fine points of turning and letting the bike lean under you.

Not me, but I know the guy that took the pic. It explains how to make a good tight turn on a hill. This is the essence of trials riding and will spill over into any riding - controlling the bike underneath you and always staying neutral. Not having a seat makes it much easier to learn.

jjohn82 · 03-22-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeMonkee

I have not had the problem with freewheeling with the Rekluse in my Hussy. Sure, if you stop and then roll on, then the clutch doesn't engage without blipping the throttle.

It's too bad Revlock decided to quit making clutches - they had one that was adjustable on the fly.

Yeah, I have seen EFM, and if I decide I really want one I may ping them on it. But was just weighing the options first.

Revloc didn't decide...someting happened between them and Rekluse, and they are gone. Good or bad I don't know. But take a look at the new EXP 2.0 from Rekluse, its the dyna ring for sure.

jjohn82 · 03-22-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Marinero

The only seat I would get would be the Buttrest simply because I can take it off and put it in the backpack or flip it around on the fender. It's also in a much better spot up on the subframe than the "valley" type seat which is what the Alp and Reflex have. I'm also 6-6 and about the same weight. Riding my Reflex seat was a joke. My knees were completely useless for weighting pegs as they were so far up. I put 6" rise bars on the new TXT321 and a heavier rear spring. It's now perfect and very comfortable to ride for long periods of time.

Can you tell a little more about this butt rest seat and maybe post a picture of the 6" bar risers? Please. I have a Rox 2" riser set on my 2001 Sherco 2.5 and would like a little more room. How does it affect the steering and balance at that height?

Thanks in advance

CodeMonkee · 03-22-2012, 06:52 PM

Well, we'll see.

I have a bad back and neck, mostly the result of flipping a car end for end, twice, with no seat belts - and riding can really kill my shoulder's and neck, and if I stand bent over for more than a few minutes it kills me.

Anyway, like I sad, we'll see - eventually. I need to get some gear, a ramp for my truck, and some gas as this thing apparently needs high octane. Why in the world do trials bikes have such high compression??

Pro_Marinero · 03-22-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjohn82

Can you tell a little more about this butt rest seat and maybe post a picture of the 6" bar risers? Please. I have a Rox 2" riser set on my 2001 Sherco 2.5 and would like a little more room. How does it affect the steering and balance at that height?

Thanks in advance

Do a google search for buttrest. You'll find it at the top.

I don't have risers, I have Renthal trials bars with a 6" rise. Actually I do have risers- the cheapo ones on eBay for the txt bikes. I think they're an inch. I don't find any issues with handling. I run them at a neutral position. If I want to quicken the steering I'll rotate them forward a hair.

Pro_Marinero · 03-22-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeMonkee

Well, we'll see.

I have a bad back and neck, mostly the result of flipping a car end for end, twice, with no seat belts - and riding can really kill my shoulder's and neck, and if I stand bent over for more than a few minutes it kills me.

Anyway, like I sad, we'll see - eventually. I need to get some gear, a ramp for my truck, and some gas as this thing apparently needs high octane. Why in the world do trials bikes have such high compression??

If you're riding it right your back and neck won't work, but your knees will. The bend should be all there.

Actually compression is pretty low. It's more in the advance curve that the octane becomes an issue. You could retard the timing a little or get the higher octane stuff. There's a whole thread in here where we argued about avgas vs race gas. I'm an avgas guy, but my next can of gas will be trying out some Torko Unleaded Accelerator. Way cheaper than race gas and lead-free.

Don't know how heavy that Alp is but I've quit bringing a ramp with me for getting the GG in and out of the truck. It's light enough to do without (grab rear wheel over top, lift and back front wheel to tailgate, drop rear wheel, drop front wheel).

CodeMonkee · 03-23-2012, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Marinero

If you're riding it right your back and neck won't work, but your knees will. The bend should be all there.

Believe me - it doesn't take much to do me in. I am up right now because I can't sleep because of leg pain caused by my back.

Quote:

Actually compression is pretty low.

13:1 is low?

I know its a 2 stroke so there is effective compression losses due to port timing and so on, but still, it requires high octane gas that I can't get at most gas stations.

Quote:

Don't know how heavy that Alp is but I've quit bringing a ramp with me for getting the GG in and out of the truck. It's light enough to do without (grab rear wheel over top, lift and back front wheel to tailgate, drop rear wheel, drop front wheel).

Uh, yeah, not going to happen. Here is my truck:

That bed is a good 40 inches high. If I sneeze I can throw my back out - I am not going to try to lift a 200 pound bike up over my waist.

Pro_Marinero · 03-23-2012, 09:27 AM

You need a ramp.

Where did you find that spec for compression? Even the hi-po pro trials bikes aren't 13:1, more like 9.5:1. I believe it's calculated from the top of the ports, not bottom of stroke. There is some good info here regarding octane rating and pump gas boosters. He recommends race gas, but I'm too cheap to buy $12/gal gas so I've gone the avgas route and will try Torco in the future.

CodeMonkee · 03-23-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Marinero

You need a ramp.

Yup. There is a method to my madness though; gonna turn that into an RV.

Quote:

Where did you find that spec for compression? Even the hi-po pro trials bikes aren't 13:1, more like 9.5:1. I believe it's calculated from the top of the ports, not bottom of stroke. There is some good info here regarding octane rating and pump gas boosters. He recommends race gas, but I'm too cheap to buy $12/gal gas so I've gone the avgas route and will try Torco in the future.

The tech manual for the Techno 250cc (Type 6605 the engine I am told the Alp has) lists it as 13:1 compression.

I was at the local bike shop after work and they had some "racing gas" that was $20 to $30 per gallon.

The manual says run "super grade" (no octane numbers).

Rockcat · 03-23-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeMonkee

Yup. There is a method to my madness though; gonna turn that into an RV.

The tech manual for the Techno 250cc (Type 6605 the engine I am told the Alp has) lists it as 13:1 compression.

I was at the local bike shop after work and they had some "racing gas" that was $20 to $30 per gallon.

The manual says run "super grade" (no octane numbers).

I run E0 92 octane in my 2 stroke race bikes and my Berg. There is a gas station in Hillsboro that sells E0 and one in Carlton. My bikes seem to run better without ethanol and the gas lasts much longer.

Rokoneer · 03-24-2012, 04:57 AM

FWIW I ran super unleaded (Sunoco Ultra 94) in both my Alp's and never had any issues.

CodeMonkee · 03-24-2012, 09:34 AM

Thanks.

The PO said he thought the reason that the previous tank "swelled" was because of ethanol.

I guess you need to go out into the boonies to get E0

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR

CodeMonkee · 03-24-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokoneer

FWIW I ran super unleaded (Sunoco Ultra 94) in both my Alp's and never had any issues.

The best we can do around here is maybe 92 or 93.

03-20-2012, 06:41 PM	#17
CodeMonkee ^OP Geek Adventurer Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Orygun Oddometer: 4,601	I have not had the problem with freewheeling with the Rekluse in my Hussy. Sure, if you stop and then roll on, then the clutch doesn't engage without blipping the throttle. It's too bad Revlock decided to quit making clutches - they had one that was adjustable on the fly. Yeah, I have seen EFM, and if I decide I really want one I may ping them on it. But was just weighing the options first. __________________ '09 Husaberg FE570 '99 Beta Alp '04 Ducati MTS - sold Not all who wander are lost

03-22-2012, 06:52 PM	#21
CodeMonkee ^OP Geek Adventurer Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Orygun Oddometer: 4,601	Well, we'll see. I have a bad back and neck, mostly the result of flipping a car end for end, twice, with no seat belts - and riding can really kill my shoulder's and neck, and if I stand bent over for more than a few minutes it kills me. Anyway, like I sad, we'll see - eventually. I need to get some gear, a ramp for my truck, and some gas as this thing apparently needs high octane. Why in the world do trials bikes have such high compression?? __________________ '09 Husaberg FE570 '99 Beta Alp '04 Ducati MTS - sold Not all who wander are lost

03-24-2012, 09:34 AM	#29
CodeMonkee ^OP Geek Adventurer Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Orygun Oddometer: 4,601	Thanks. The PO said he thought the reason that the previous tank "swelled" was because of ethanol. I guess you need to go out into the boonies to get E0 http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR __________________ '09 Husaberg FE570 '99 Beta Alp '04 Ducati MTS - sold Not all who wander are lost CodeMonkee screwed with this post 03-24-2012 at 09:40 AM

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03-22-2012, 08:41 AM	#18
Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Ellensburg, WA Oddometer: 2,046	Monkee you sound a lot like my dad. He had the same conundrum as you; long-time rider, wasn't happy with his off-road skills, wanted something easier to handle and keep up on the gnarly trails I like to ride. He had started with a KLX650R - Kawi's answer to the BRP back when the BRP was still just a XR600R. Great desert race bike, horrible on trails. Moved to a KLX300R. I had purchased a Husaberg FX470 with a Rekluse and loved it. He tried it and wanted one too, but the only answer was EFM. It never worked right compared to a Rekluse. Then I bought a GG TXT270 and started doing the really nasty stuff. He tried my bike and really realized how much he needed to work on the basics in the backyard to get better, but he wanted one with a seat to ride trails with me. I had previously had a Reflex and he knew that one sucked. He looked at all kinds of ebay seats for trials bikes, even considered Alps and Pamperas. In the end he bought a very clean TXT280 and I told him if he wanted to ride with me he was going to have to suck it up and stand. We now do 10-20 mile rides with extra fuel and he's fine with it. Tired yes, but still realizes how much the seat would be in the way on these rides. Seats only really make a difference on road rides (we both have plated TXT's but only ride them on gravel FS roads) or long downhill stretches. He simply takes more breaks and we talk more on the trail. The only seat I would get would be the Buttrest simply because I can take it off and put it in the backpack or flip it around on the fender. It's also in a much better spot up on the subframe than the "valley" type seat which is what the Alp and Reflex have. I'm also 6-6 and about the same weight. Riding my Reflex seat was a joke. My knees were completely useless for weighting pegs as they were so far up. I put 6" rise bars on the new TXT321 and a heavier rear spring. It's now perfect and very comfortable to ride for long periods of time. Really the idea of "I have to stand and there's not seat?" is more of a mental block. My dad is always uncomfortable for the first 500 yards and then fine after that. He feels like he's not going to make it, but your brain gets over that pretty quick. Congrats on the Alp and you will easily sell it for what you paid, but I think you're going to quickly find its limits. Also, an autoclutch on a trials bike is a mistake. Pops was thinking the same thing, but I had him go out and ride his bike over a few obstacles and note where the RPMs were. He realized that he would be in the engage/disengage point a lot of the time and trying to time it would be a big problem. You will be much happier with a clutch. They are butter-smooth to operate. This is coming from a self-proclaimed lazy rider with a Rekluse and left-hand rear brake. You will find that on a true trials bike you will learn faster and tackle far harder trails with ease, plus your Berg riding will improve as well. If you're trying to do it on something like an Alp or Reflex, you will be fighting the seat and won't learn the fine points of turning and letting the bike lean under you. Not me, but I know the guy that took the pic. It explains how to make a good tight turn on a hill. This is the essence of trials riding and will spill over into any riding - controlling the bike underneath you and always staying neutral. Not having a seat makes it much easier to learn.

03-23-2012, 09:27 AM	#25
Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Ellensburg, WA Oddometer: 2,046	You need a ramp. Where did you find that spec for compression? Even the hi-po pro trials bikes aren't 13:1, more like 9.5:1. I believe it's calculated from the top of the ports, not bottom of stroke. There is some good info here regarding octane rating and pump gas boosters. He recommends race gas, but I'm too cheap to buy $12/gal gas so I've gone the avgas route and will try Torco in the future.

03-24-2012, 04:57 AM	#28
Rokoneer Studly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2006 Location: Upstate, You Nork Oddometer: 509	FWIW I ran super unleaded (Sunoco Ultra 94) in both my Alp's and never had any issues.