What Is The Advantage Of Large Displacement In The Dirt?

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by StolenFant

That's the problem. I did learn to ride a small bike first, XR75, Hodaka DirtSquirt, CR 125, CR250, CR450. They're VERY different from the big bikes, but thanks for the advice.

It wasn't meant to be as flip as it sounds.

Fresh experience on the lighter bike gave me new ways to assert my authority
over the large capacity bike making log jumps and drop offs much more relaxed than previously.

It's more about controlling the momentum than any radical change in the physics.

[Ritalin Boy]

Originally Posted by StolenFant

Just went to Dirt Wise, but it appears to be entirely based on 100% dirt bikes, or at most the lighter barely street capable enduro bikes. Still I've emailed them to see if they have anything to help.

So, anyone have info on good instruction for the multi-cylinder ADV bikes?

Thanks!

Two weeks after my Dirtwise class I did a big bike dualsport on my adventure. More than one buddy (NETR Enduro champ types) commented on my improvements.

The techniques are the same but it takes more time / effort to accomplish the same thing on a big bike.

For a brief tutorial come to Colors in the Catskills or any event Max BMW is offering instruction.

[FinlandThumper]

Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy

Bottom line is if you're looking to do more dirt or adventure touring figure out what you want to do, where you want to go and then get the smallest bike that will work. Cross country with a jaunt on some jeep trails to Colorado peaks? By all means the big bikes will be great. Trans-Am Trail? Not so good for the big bike, probably a 600 or so would be good. Single track with your buddies? 450 or smaller.

This is EXCELLENT advice and all too frequently forgotten. Marketing tends to have that effect on people.

Basically, make your problem as simple as possible, but no simpler. Match your tool to the job at hand. Don't use a sledge hammer to hang a picture. Don't use a picture hanging hammer to frame out rough carpentry for your remodel. Etc.

I am personally a fan of the big BMW GS bikes...but then again, I'm pretty much a fan of all bikes so that's no surprise. And when our child gets older and we return to two-up touring on all kinds of road surfaces, the big BMW GS will be in my garage. But for now? Shorter to longer tours, one-up, mixed surface riding, no true trail riding? The BMW F650GS does everything required at half the displacement, less weight, less money, simple repairs (can't say simpler since I don't know).

Why complicate things and spend more money than needed, only to end up with a tool which doesn't even do the job as well?

[StolenFant]

Yes, it was excellent advice. I'm just a bit frustrated by not knowing what I want, and DISCOVERING what I can no longer do. The Wee's a very inexpensive fence I'm straddling, and thanks to those SW Motech engine guards, It doesn't suffer nearly as much from my "discoveries" as my body does. But damn, you should see the grin on my face! I don't know how I quit riding for a quarter century. Oh, that's right ... ...

Originally Posted by FinlandThumper

This is EXCELLENT advice and all too frequently forgotten. Marketing tends to have that effect on people.

Basically, make your problem as simple as possible, but no simpler. Match your tool to the job at hand. Don't use a sledge hammer to hang a picture. Don't use a picture hanging hammer to frame out rough carpentry for your remodel. Etc.

I am personally a fan of the big BMW GS bikes...but then again, I'm pretty much a fan of all bikes so that's no surprise. And when our child gets older and we return to two-up touring on all kinds of road surfaces, the big BMW GS will be in my garage. But for now? Shorter to longer tours, one-up, mixed surface riding, no true trail riding? The BMW F650GS does everything required at half the displacement, less weight, less money, simple repairs (can't say simpler since I don't know).

Why complicate things and spend more money than needed, only to end up with a tool which doesn't even do the job as well?

[glasswave]

Originally Posted by BeerIsGood

I see a lot of riders on this forum wallowing around the dirt and mud with HUGE bikes (BMW 1200 GS, Yamaha Tenere, KTM 990) and I was just wondering:

1. What is the advantage of a bike this large in an off road situation?
2. Other than speed and power on tarmac, is there really any advantage?

Well, a large displacement twin adv bike will be more comfortable for gobbling up 100's of kms of washboard/gravel (if you call that off road) than a light enduro. Think ruta 40 in Patagonia, the Parmir or Korakoram Highways, the road of bones etc.

The big adv twins are supposed to be versatile bikes that are comfortable/fun on long highway trips, but still be able to handle the occasional bit of 4wd terrain. They are for world touring not week end dirt forays. Think of them like a Ford f350 long bed with a nice camper. A comfortable round the world cruiser, but when the going gets truely tough you may prefer a jeep.

Originally Posted by StolenFant

My Wee's not about to get restricted to pavement only, but it would be nice to up the thrills without increasing the spills.

Yes, it looks like there is a DR, KLR, or similar somewhere in my future.

Don't get your hopes up. A DR or especially a KLR is not going to be very much fun in the rough stuff either. If you want to start throwing donuts and flying over the whoopty doos in a single leap, I'd be looking for something well under 300 lbs. Maybe a KTM 500exc.

At least a strom is fun in the twisties, a klr simply isn't much fun anywhere. That's what makes em so great for everything, there not any good at anything.

[Rucksta]

Everytime I hear someone say

"big bikes are only good for dirt roads and carrying lots of luggage"

I think they haven't tried a well set up big bike in the dirt yet.

[NJ-Brett]

And every time I see a big heavy bike in the dirt, I think broken bones.
Or the joys of something really light on sandy whoops.

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Everytime I hear someone say

"big bikes are only good for dirt roads and carrying lots of luggage"

I think they haven't tried a well set up big bike in the dirt yet.

[NJ-Brett]

A dr650 with the suspension set up and good tires does quite well at moderate speeds, and even higher speeds in rough stuff.
Its not EASY, plus it really hurts when you fall, and you will fall...

Originally Posted by glasswave

Don't get your hopes up. A DR or especially a KLR is not going to be very much fun in the rough stuff either. If you want to start throwing donuts and flying over the whoopty doos in a single leap, I'd be looking for something well under 300 lbs. Maybe a KTM 500exc.

At least a strom is fun in the twisties, a klr simply isn't much fun anywhere. That's what makes em so great for everything, there not any good at anything.

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

A dr650 with the suspension set up and good tires does quite well at moderate speeds, and even higher speeds in rough stuff.
Its not EASY, plus it really hurts when you fall, and you will fall...

When the title said large displacement I thought it meant engine capacity not how much water is moved aside when submerged

[markk53]

Originally Posted by BeerIsGood

This is probably a noob question. And as far as off road riding goes, I guess I am a noob. I see a lot of riders on this forum wallowing around the dirt and mud with HUGE bikes (BMW 1200 GS, Yamaha Tenere, KTM 990) and I was just wondering:

1. What is the advantage of a bike this large in an off road situation?
2. Other than speed and power on tarmac, is there really any advantage?

Well, based on your name tag, it's because you can fill the bags with ice and a few cases of beer and still pull the hills.

Originally Posted by markk53

Well, based on your name tag, it's because you can fill the bags with ice and a few cases of beer and still pull the hills.

Awesome!

[2handedSpey]

I am 6'4" and 180. A KLx and or Yamaha 250 or tw200 is just too small for me. I ride a KLR because of its tallish size AND I don't want to tow the bike around on a trailer. If I wanna go offroading, I'll ride there and get 50+ mpg!!!


But, I certainly don't like picking that fat turd up when I tip

[Ceri JC]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Everytime I hear someone say

"big bikes are only good for dirt roads and carrying lots of luggage"

I think they haven't tried a well set up big bike in the dirt yet.

...Or they have, but they can't ride, or they're a midget weakling. I've seen a 5'2" 55KG woman pick up a GSA in the dirt and then ride it so fast I couldn't keep her in sight on a 450 enduro bike. These guys who think a 690 is too heavy for the dirt must have some sort of terrible wasting degenerative disease.


Seriously though, big dirt bikes, don't knock it till you've tried it.

[dashmoto]

My Tenere is better in the dirt than a small enduro bike because it actually gets ridden.

From a UK (and probably Western Euro generally) point of view, there is no such thing as wilderness single-track. If you can put together a full day's ride (>100 miles) that's more than 50% dirt then you are either a very wealthy private landowner, riding round in circles on a pay-to-play site, or riding round in circles on the same few trails. Among the trails we've got there's even fewer that you couldn't get a 4x4 down.

I ride with guys who do use enduro bikes, and I swear they do more miles on trailers/in vans than they do riding them. I've had enduro bikes when I was racing enduro, and they ended up coming out of the garage once a month to go racing. The one time I did go trail-riding on one of them I drove an hour in the van, half a day alternating between being uncomfortable on the tarmac stretches and bored on the trails because it made it too easy, and then it broke down.

In the end I sold my last enduro bike and put the money into the suspension on the Tenere. I've not regretted it once. I've only once got into a situation where the big bike got me stuck and I was glad of help to get it out (crankcases wedged in a massive rut where a smaller bike might have squeezed through, or at least been easier to manhandle out).

YMMV ;)

I do also think there is something in the idea of big bikes being more stable in fast fire-road type riding. The Tenere will plough through stuff that would have had my (half the weight) GasGas EC300 bouncing off the lockstops.

[glasswave]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

A dr650 with the suspension set up and good tires does quite well at moderate speeds, and even higher speeds in rough stuff.
Its not EASY, plus it really hurts when you fall, and you will fall...

Yeah, I was speaking to the klr at 430 lbs mostly. The DR although heavy is nothing like a klr.