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Old 03-19-2012, 09:26 AM   #61
Prysock
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Laugh Off-road class

Have you considered:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...otorcycle.aspx

You get the big bike off-road training and to try out the GS's as well! I think the one or two-day off-road courses would be a great start....

Let me know if you decide to go, I'd consider heading up to Greenville too.

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Yes, it was excellent advice. I'm just a bit frustrated by not knowing what I want, and DISCOVERING what I can no longer do. The Wee's a very inexpensive fence I'm straddling, and thanks to those SW Motech engine guards, It doesn't suffer nearly as much from my "discoveries" as my body does. But damn, you should see the grin on my face! I don't know how I quit riding for a quarter century. Oh, that's right ... ...
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by uberthumper View Post
My Tenere is better in the dirt than a small enduro bike because it actually gets ridden.

From a UK (and probably Western Euro generally) point of view, there is no such thing as wilderness single-track. If you can put together a full day's ride (>100 miles) that's more than 50% dirt then you are either a very wealthy private landowner, riding round in circles on a pay-to-play site, or riding round in circles on the same few trails. Among the trails we've got there's even fewer that you couldn't get a 4x4 down.

I ride with guys who do use enduro bikes, and I swear they do more miles on trailers/in vans than they do riding them. I've had enduro bikes when I was racing enduro, and they ended up coming out of the garage once a month to go racing. The one time I did go trail-riding on one of them I drove an hour in the van, half a day alternating between being uncomfortable on the tarmac stretches and bored on the trails because it made it too easy, and then it broke down.

In the end I sold my last enduro bike and put the money into the suspension on the Tenere. I've not regretted it once. I've only once got into a situation where the big bike got me stuck and I was glad of help to get it out (crankcases wedged in a massive rut where a smaller bike might have squeezed through, or at least been easier to manhandle out).

YMMV ;)

I do also think there is something in the idea of big bikes being more stable in fast fire-road type riding. The Tenere will plough through stuff that would have had my (half the weight) GasGas EC300 bouncing off the lockstops.
We're in western Europe here in Finland, last time i checked, we were anyway. We have lot of single track enduro trails here, the same would aply to Sweden and Norway, they're in western, or north western Europe as well. Even though i own a 990adv and slip and slide it on the dirt roads, i stay out of the real tight stuff, too much like hard work.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussijussi View Post
We're in western Europe here in Finland, last time i checked, we were anyway. We have lot of single track enduro trails here, the same would aply to Sweden and Norway, they're in western, or north western Europe as well. Even though i own a 990adv and slip and slide it on the dirt roads, i stay out of the real tight stuff, too much like hard work.
Lucky you.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:47 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Aussijussi View Post
...... Even though i own a 990adv and slip and slide it on the dirt roads, i stay out of the real tight stuff, too much like hard work.

that's a great point. My KLR is very capable with knobbies, barkbusters, MX pegs etc but, if it's too tight, gnarly, muddy, off camber I just won't do it
Too much effort having to lug it up all the time. I like to limit my "Pick-me-ups" to 5 or fewer per day.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:01 PM   #65
Rucksta
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What is a Large Displacement Bike that may have an advantage in the dirt?

To me a well set up dirt bike includes ergonomics that place
Chin over the bars standing.
Feet at the swing arm pivot any riding position
Bum over the rear axle when required.

Also required
21" front wheel
Engine armour
Suspenesion hard enough to absorb jumps and soft enough to trickle over rocky ground without skipping
Sufficient ground clearance to not get hung up on the usual stuff that litters trails say 7" minimum

So far we have a general description of a dirt bike.
If we want to go large we gotta have all that and some power.
Anything under 50HP is just not going to cut it
50 is available from a 450.
70 would do 80 would be better 90 is nice and 100 or over is excessive but that's OK too.

To increase the capacity & power output an increase in weight is usually required
350-450lbs would seem to be the weight range for a large bike that is able to be manhandled by mere mortals on a single track
When getting up into the 550lb examples it seems superhuman strength, endurance & skill are required to enjoy .
Lesser mortals may be able to negotiate the terrain but I rarely see them smile or ask for more.

No wonder there are so few proponents of "large displacement bikes are fun in the dirt"
The bikes just aren't built.
AFAIK current models are limited to KTM990 and BMW F8GS
Neither of which excite me like a KTM950SE did and that only ever looked close enough.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:18 PM   #66
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I had a KTM XC 500 two stroker, it was light enough and it had some go in it, not sure of the hp, a real weapon all the same!
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:50 AM   #67
Ceri JC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prysock View Post
You get the big bike off-road training and to try out the GS's as well! I think the one or two-day off-road courses would be a great start....
Yep, training specific to a big bike is a big help. If you are planning to just try riding a GSA like it was 250 2T and hope for the best, you'd better be really talented.


Aussijussi; Eh? You're about as far North and East as you can get without being in Russia! We'd call you Northern European. Think of the divide of the Berlin wall when referring to East and West within Europe. :)

There are single track trails in western Europe (Spain and Portugal in particular) that are readily available to play on for free (legally), but uberthumper's comment remains true for the UK. There are proportionally very few miles of greenlane that a decent rider couldn't get a big bike down over here. If you race and have access to an Enduro bike anyway, I can certainly see the appeal of using one for greenlaning. If I was buying a bike specifically for greenlaning, it'd seem a massive compromise of reliability, longevity, practicality and comfort to open up <5% more lanes to you, over getting a bigger bike.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:36 AM   #68
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I submit that all the talk about specialized training reinforces the opinion that there is no advantage to a big bike in the dirt.

After all that is what the OP asked.

To the OP once again all things being equal once in the dirt light is right.

However as an all around bike after riding my 450 55 miles on pavement all I can say is my ass still hurts.

Half the battle is choosing the right weapon. No need to shoot mice with a bazooka.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:13 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post
No need to shoot mice with a bazooka.
big mice down under

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Old 03-20-2012, 06:18 AM   #70
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big mice down under

What the hell is that? It looks like it hits the gym!
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post
What the hell is that? It looks like it hits the gym!
Mouse after 3 x 10 bench press DR650.
For a warm up it will skip down the trail at 40-60 kph looking for a DR to knock over
Known to grow over 6 feet typical examples will stand 4 feet high on back legs.

One advantage of the big bike is being able to pack a bazooka
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:20 AM   #72
Ritalin Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucksta View Post
Mouse after 3 x 10 bench press DR650.
For a warm up it will skip down the trail at 40-60 kph looking for a DR to knock over
Known to grow over 6 feet typical examples will stand 4 feet high on back legs.

One advantage of the big bike is being able to pack a bazooka
I thought that's what it was but I've never seen a photo of one quite like that.

No wonder you don't want to box with one. I sure as hell don't.

Ritalin Boy screwed with this post 03-20-2012 at 10:22 AM
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:50 AM   #73
windmill
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The smallest dualsport bike I had was an XL250, the biggest a E900.

I could ride the XL on just about any clear trail, I never had to worry about what I might encounter around the corner.
The E900 was basically limited to maintained unpaved roads with an occasional challenging spot, it was so big, heavy, and vulnerable to damage i rarely took it off the pavement.

The XL was a blast on any road except the freeway, being tall, light, and a 250 freeway travel was totally doable but definitely not its forte.
The E900 was wonderful on the freeway, and great on secondary roads.

For me where I live, the advantages of a smaller dualsport off road, far outweigh the advantages of an adventure bike on road.
That said, if I were buying a new bike, and it was going to be my only one, I would choose the adventure bike and use it within its/my limitations because it would fit my everyday needs better.

If I were to replace my Ural, I think I would get a Triumph scrambler, for me it would be as good or better than a bigger adventure bike.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:34 AM   #74
markk53
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Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post
Momentum too.

As you are Plowing a rut when you fall off!
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:58 AM   #75
Ceri JC
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Quote:
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As you are Plowing a rut when you fall off!
You tend not to fall off because the trench you plow usually keeps the bike upright. This also negates the need for a centrestand.


Seriously though, I've only done this twice. Once in a deep pond and once in thick mud. A smaller dirtbike would have gotten through the thick mud, even a 125 would have gotten stuck in the pond.
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