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Old 03-18-2012, 01:51 PM   #76
knobbyjoe
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No I am not kidding!

Just out of curiosity...Can a KTM dealer fix something like this? Or is it over their head and you need a exceptional mechanic?
KJ
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:50 PM   #77
Alleycatdad
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Geeze, bone stock I only got 33 average on my 2010; I've seen 45 but that's at a steady 60ish, freeway only, watching a buddy on his xr keep up....

...and it wasn't on the stock map.

Currently I get 35 ish avg, it is super dependent on how I ride it.

Steve
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:04 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knobbyjoe View Post
No I am not kidding!

Just out of curiosity...Can a KTM dealer fix something like this? Or is it over their head and you need a exceptional mechanic?
KJ
I'm not sure the two closest dealers to my location could fix a problem like this. They would likely say Diek's 27-30 mpg is about all you can expect.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:00 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
I'm not sure the two closest dealers to my location could fix a problem like this. They would likely say Diek's 27-30 mpg is about all you can expect.
Yep. "No errors in cumputer, hava nice day...."

S
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:09 AM   #80
viola-tor OP
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Hey guys, finally have a second at the computer for an update. Thanks for the real-time reports Jack!

Yes, I got highway MPGs like 27, 30, 28, 31, 29, 31.5 (best) for tank after tank through west Texas and NM, and then I quit keeping track for the offroad stuff (it wasn't really practical to measure it with partial fill-ups and such). On the way BACK from Big Bend heading east on HWY 90 into a headwind I got my WORST MPG ever: 21.9. My BMW 1200GS riding partner was getting 40 mpg. Aside from the terrible fuel consumption the bike ran well for the majority of the trip (fast as hell!), until the battery decided it was finished 150 miles from home (had to jump from the GS). The big KTM is well suited for the Big Bend backcountry IMO. Yee-haw!

I guess I'm going to break her down again and see what I see, but I've already double-checked my work so I'm not sure what that will accomplish... I'm considering re-installing the SAS just to see what happens. I've never heard of anyone doing that... I don't feel like I should have to.

Sadly the bike is gonna be parked for a while, this was the last "hurrah." I can keep tinkering on it, but I've reached the point where I can't afford to ride: can't afford all the parts I break and/or wear out (riding as I do), gas at 20 mpg, tires and tubes, a new battery, nor the expensive and far-away custom tune it needs, and certainly not a new/used replacement bike (which I wouldn't want to do anyway). I'm weary of limping the bike home after each trip (while acknowledging that breaking stuff IS part of epic adventures). I'm not whining, just taking stock of my situation. I've heard these KTMs are kinda expensive!

So, I can keep wrenching on my own, but the UPS man is barred from my door until my situation improves (which I'm working on). I can keep learning about and experimenting with ECU mapping , but even testing will have to be curtailed for a while. I intend to read up on F.I. to gain a better understanding which will surely be enlightening...

Advice? What would be the next things to try?
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:16 PM   #81
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Did I read that you are running the Akra map? Put the stocker in and leave o-2 on. Let them do there job. If the bike is running well there is nothing wrong most likely but the mapping. Your o-2 sensors could be toast as I have ran into some that were. Running 70-80 you are not going to get that good of milage for these tall bricks.
Your bike is so bad you can blindly lean it out without worry. Try subtracting 10% fuel from 1% to 20% tps 2K to 4.5K on the F1/F2 maps. Test ride. If all is well subtract 5% same area. Keep going until you feel slight hesitation. At that point your getting lean so add 3% back in. Check your spark plugs. When I say slight hesitation I mean steady throttle and very easily adding throttle as if you just want to pick up speed a couple mph. If you twist it too hard the ECU switches over to the MAP based map. Wouldn't be a bad idea to change the f/l switch down to 1800rpm while your doing this. Even with the f/l that low you still have throttle enrichment when you twist it.

Remember:

1) pay attention to light throttle response.
2) the famous throttle notch, jerk or whatever. It should get smoother. Yours is probably bad.

Anyone can try this. Use smaller increments if your milage isn't as bad. And of course the disclaimer:


TUNE AT YOUR OWN RISK

Always use a wide-band and fresh gas on a closed course with a professional rider and tuner. Always were a helmet. Never get your 950/990 dirty as someone might think you cut through an illegal field on your way to Starbucks. Never drink more than one cupof coffee before riding as inherent wheelie problems could exist and gas stations hard to resist.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #82
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+1 Tahoeacr knows his crap. I'm very wary of what I can do when it comes to this stuff but I wouldn't hesitate at all to follow his instructions.

You want me to get my map from Wheeler and pull up the throttle values and settings? It may not be spot on but it should be closer. Also, you going to WestFest? I think I'm heading out, hell you can pull my map if you want. I can swing by Texas.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:59 PM   #83
bikyto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katoom119 View Post
+1 Tahoeacr knows his crap. I'm very wary of what I can do when it comes to this stuff but I wouldn't hesitate at all to follow his instructions
+1

On the o2 sensors, I've seen a few go bad too. When you turn them off in tuneecu (but don't remove them)... It kills them after some miles.

Tahoeacr: Good point on the f/l switch when testing
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:08 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viola-tor View Post
battery decided it was finished 150 miles from home
Check your voltage while running, preferably while riding. High and/or low voltage can put the ECU in limp home mode where it over-fuels to prevent possible damage from running lean.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:27 AM   #85
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Hey Diek, glad you are back. Tahoeacr's suggestions are good to try. There is no reason to run the Akra map on your bike. You can compare your original map with the stock map to see if you were stock before. Some of the changes you noted after canister and sas removal were likely due to the new throttle cables and not having the TPS set after the change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
+1

On the o2 sensors, I've seen a few go bad too. When you turn them off in tuneecu (but don't remove them)... It kills them after some miles.

Tahoeacr: Good point on the f/l switch when testing
I'm not sure how turning off the O2 sensors in Tuneecu could have any effect on the sensors (they are pretty much a passive device), but that doesn't mean that one (or both) are not bad.

I'm making progress on my PT so I hope to be back riding soon (and wrenching) so I'll be able to help you sort this out. BTW, if you can make breakfast on Friday, its on me.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:41 AM   #86
bikyto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post

I'm not sure how turning off the O2 sensors in Tuneecu could have any effect on the sensors (they are pretty much a passive device), but that doesn't mean that one (or both) are not bad.
From what I recall, Diek has been running the akra map for quite a while. By default, in an akra map, the O2 sensors are turned off. Having them plugged in but "off" isn't something the sensors particularly like. So my post was to remind him that if he is to turn them back on (either in the stock or akra map), he might run into that issue of having dead o2 sensors. Fwiw.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:17 AM   #87
gefr
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O2 sensors damaged if disabled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
if he is to turn them back on (either in the stock or akra map), he might have dead o2 sensors.
I had both O2 sensors die. They definitely are "passive devices?"
They operate at high temp which, if not produced from exhaust gas, is raised through preheaters. Maybe when they are subjected in exhaust gas flow, in lower temp, they get destroyed, collecting carbon residuals?
Cheers

gefr screwed with this post 11-19-2012 at 09:47 AM
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:48 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gefr View Post
I had both O2 sensors die. They definitely are "passive devices?"
They operate at high temps which if not produced from exhaust gas are raised through preheaters. Maybe when they are subjected in lower exhaust gas, they get destroyed, collecting carbon residuals?
Cheers
so these should be possible to bring alive with a gas torch?
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:46 AM   #89
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I read they operate at 600 C or so.

I can't comment on that. The usual diagnose is preheat grounded. I don't know if a torch or air pressure could breath some life in them.
Cheers.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:59 PM   #90
DirtJack
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I don't think Viola-tor has verified whether or not the O2 sensors are working yet. The 990 ECU uses the O2 sensor setting to select whether or not to enter a loop-back mode (adjusting the fuel ratio depending on the voltage read from the sensor). The ECU does not attempt to enter loop-back mode until the O2 sensors are up to operating temperature (the 990 has O2 sensor heaters to speed the warm-up). If the O2 sensors are disabled, the ECU uses fixed maps for the given rpm, motor-temperature, ambient air temperature, air pressure, etc., just as it does during initial warm-up.
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