ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Trials
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-23-2012, 08:01 AM   #31
Sting32
Trials Evangelist
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis, Ks
Oddometer: 1,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrottleJock View Post
Totally, and I appreciate the concern! :) I was thinking that if it turns out that the +10 springs are too much, I can just drop one of the stock springs w/ correct preload spacer back into one of the legs. It'll be good for me to get to know the suspension on this bike a little more anyway so taking it apart a couple of times won't be so bad if that's what it comes down to. Thanks again man, I'll keep you all posted on the results!
That is cool

Reading your posts, I hope we'll run into each other sometime, you seem to think like me, brewtus, and the gang... Everything is about tweaking it how you like, with help, it goes the right direction. Trials has a long known, maybe unwritten motto though (besides the Bultaco Thmbs up "cemoto" hehehehe). It is an original fact, (IMHO):
"learning to use new techniques, is grossly and inversly proportional to the time it takes to UNLEARN bad habbits you already use."

Oh, and DONT FORGET
Be sure to post up results of your work, Im am sure either now or in the future, this thread could come in handy...

Sting32 screwed with this post 03-23-2012 at 08:11 AM
Sting32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:41 AM   #32
ThrottleJock OP
Shaved Ape
 
ThrottleJock's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: North Carolina
Oddometer: 60
Okay guys, a quick update.

Yesterday I rebuilt the forks; tore them down, changed the oil, recharged the oil in the cartridges, changed to the +10 springs, set the oil height and stared at the preload spacer for about an hour trying to decide whether I should cut it or not. I decided to bolt it back together.

It works! A full, glorious 7 inches of travel! Holy cow I didn't know what I was missing. I'm able to ride down hills and ledges and over rocks and things now without slamming metal on metal and cracking my wrists.

The springs ARE a bit stiff, so I may end up pulling the spacers and trimming a 1/4 inch or so, or I may swap one of the stock springs in to get the spring rate in the middle. It actually feels perfect for the type of training/play riding I do, but it might not be dropping far enough in the stroke to get the traction I need for slow slippery trials comp stuff. I'm getting about 1.5" of sag, which I think is a little short.

NO complaints though, all in all I'm extremely happy to have working suspension! THanks all for your help.
__________________
"If you don't like my riding, get the hell off the sidewalk"
ThrottleJock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:56 PM   #33
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Something to keep in mind when playing with springs, and adjusting for different rider weights, is the fact that only 1/3 of your body weight (under static, ideal, conditions) ends up on the front.

I took the following measurements on my scale:

73 pounds front bike empty
72.8 pounds rear bike empty

135 (ish) front standing on pegs which means 62 of my 195(ish) body weight ends up on the front suspension, and the rest on the rear. So that means 133 of my body weight is on the rear, so loaded weight should be about 206.

I take from this that even if you are a REALLY big guy, your body weight contributes a lot more to the action of the rear suspension, and in theory means playing with front spring rates more than a little bit is going to take you outside the optimum range.

In practice, I found the front end of my 2011 300 Gas Gas to be far too easy to bottom out, and the rear to be too soft. I added a bit of oil (sorry cannot remember how much!!) to each fork leg and swapped from the stock 65 n/mm rear spring to a 75n/mm rear spring to compensate for my weight.

I think it's perfect now and wouldn't change a thing. Except a new bike is on the way so I have to start all over with the reiger shock!

Jonny042 screwed with this post 04-05-2012 at 01:57 PM Reason: clarity
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:35 PM   #34
laser17
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Boston,Massachusetts
Oddometer: 716
The nice thing about the Reiger is that it has adjustable rebound damping control - so when you put on the HD spring, you can tune the shock accordingly (add rebound). Reiger has a shock spring weight chart as well as a fork revalve / oil height guide that comes in very handy. Stu at Jackscycles stocks some of the common HD Reiger springs and has done a couple fork revalves to the Reiger spec as well. The initial feedback seems to be very high. Reiger and GasGas are developing some really neat suspension upgrades. Stu has a new "factory" shock that has High and Low speed compression damping adj. Rebound damping adj, A hydro bump stop setting and a rebound delay adjustment ( a really cool idea for helping advanced trials techniques) . I hope that we will see those upgrades on the 2012 raga bike.
laser17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 07:19 AM   #35
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
The nice thing about the Reiger is that it has adjustable rebound damping control - so when you put on the HD spring, you can tune the shock accordingly (add rebound). Reiger has a shock spring weight chart as well as a fork revalve / oil height guide that comes in very handy. Stu at Jackscycles stocks some of the common HD Reiger springs and has done a couple fork revalves to the Reiger spec as well. The initial feedback seems to be very high. Reiger and GasGas are developing some really neat suspension upgrades. Stu has a new "factory" shock that has High and Low speed compression damping adj. Rebound damping adj, A hydro bump stop setting and a rebound delay adjustment ( a really cool idea for helping advanced trials techniques) . I hope that we will see those upgrades on the 2012 raga bike.
Sounds neat! And expensive..... I have seen the weight chart for the spring, and was relieved to see that it validated the spring change I made for my weight on my "old" 300 with the Ohlins shock. My understanding of the new bike (not quite here yet), a 300 "Race" is that it has only one dampening adjustment.

I have not, however, seen the fork info can you point me at it?

I will have to get in touch with Stu, is he an email guy or strictly a telephone type? I was quoted $190.00 for a spring, perhaps he has a better source.

Thanks for the info, Jon
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:30 AM   #36
laser17
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Boston,Massachusetts
Oddometer: 716
Hi Jon - Stu is a phone guy. 207-337-1274. Give him a call - i think the new HD fork springs he gets are FAR cheaper than $190 and you are both the same weight -so he can give you the specifics on his forks. I think your right with the shock on the Race. That makes no sense to me as the race should have the top flight shock IMO. Probably works great, but for us big guys who change the spring - the rebound adj.is really nice to have. Other than that - they look like great bikes.
laser17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:59 AM   #37
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
Hi Jon - Stu is a phone guy. 207-337-1274. Give him a call - i think the new HD fork springs he gets are FAR cheaper than $190 and you are both the same weight -so he can give you the specifics on his forks. I think your right with the shock on the Race. That makes no sense to me as the race should have the top flight shock IMO. Probably works great, but for us big guys who change the spring - the rebound adj.is really nice to have. Other than that - they look like great bikes.
Thanks!! I will call him Monday then. I was unclear, the quote I got was 190 for a rear shock spring. So hoping he's got the hookup for a slightly better price we'll see. Sounds like he'll be interested in my suspension mods rather than trying to discourage me like other people seem intent on....

I have searched for the Reiger info on fork oil/valving - is it available on the web? I also checked the Jacks website and didn't see it but I did find a really neat .pdf file of the "Racing" brochure
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 01:29 PM   #38
laser17
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Boston,Massachusetts
Oddometer: 716
Sorry I misunderstood. Im pretty sure the Reiger fork re valving guide is for dealers only - so it's not online. In fact, i think dealers have to purchase it from Reiger. Im not sure of all the prices, but Im positive Stu will save you big money on the shock spring or fork springs - so definitely give him a call. With all the variables with the suspension - its best you have a direct dialog.

Also - Just to know your not alone in your quest, another friend of mine just up'd the spring on his Raga to a 72.5n-m and loves it for making the bike more lively under him. (he's about 200lbs and an expert rider here in the NE) He feels the forks are fine the way they are. Stu uses a 75n-m on his bikes and wanted better balance between the ft/rr spring/damping rates. I dont think there is a right and wrong here - just what you personally prefer.

laser17 screwed with this post 04-06-2012 at 02:50 PM
laser17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 11:23 AM   #39
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
Hi Jon - Stu is a phone guy. 207-337-1274. Give him a call - i think the new HD fork springs he gets are FAR cheaper than $190 and you are both the same weight -so he can give you the specifics on his forks. I think your right with the shock on the Race. That makes no sense to me as the race should have the top flight shock IMO. Probably works great, but for us big guys who change the spring - the rebound adj.is really nice to have. Other than that - they look like great bikes.
I called Stu today and we are all set - have ordered springs, front and rear, for the new bike. He and I see exactly eye to eye on suspension setup so I am looking forward to installing them them!

Stu seems like a stand-up guy and great to talk to, a wealth of knowledge that he seems eager to share.
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 05:19 PM   #40
Sting32
Trials Evangelist
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis, Ks
Oddometer: 1,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny042 View Post
I called Stu today and we are all set - have ordered springs, front and rear, for the new bike. He and I see exactly eye to eye on suspension setup so I am looking forward to installing them them!

Stu seems like a stand-up guy and great to talk to, a wealth of knowledge that he seems eager to share.
But, Is it possible for you to possibly post the "round figure" (not maybe special price he may or may not have gave you) for the heavier rear spring? I only ever had springs for the old Sachs shocks...

I mean, for the (lost track, you have the "racing reiger rear" or "Raga reiger rear" dual adjustable, or Ohlins rear shock?

and another question, if you have the most recent gasgas bike, is the front is still Marzoocchi even on the 2012 bikes right? (ignore spelling).

thanks.
Sting32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 05:36 PM   #41
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
But, Is it possible for you to possibly post the "round figure" (not maybe special price he may or may not have gave you) for the heavier rear spring? I only ever had springs for the old Sachs shocks...

I mean, for the (lost track, you have the "racing reiger rear" or "Raga reiger rear" dual adjustable, or Ohlins rear shock?

and another question, if you have the most recent gasgas bike, is the front is still Marzoocchi even on the 2012 bikes right? (ignore spelling).

thanks.
I haven't got a final price from yet but I am going to guess 300 will do both ends of the bike, give or take a few bucks.

Comparitively speaking that is quite a bit for springs but then like everything else trials related, it is pretty specialized stuff, very specific to the application, and you can't put a price on the added help/advice that comes along with a purchase from someone like Stu.
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 07:23 AM   #42
laser17
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Boston,Massachusetts
Oddometer: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
But, Is it possible for you to possibly post the "round figure" (not maybe special price he may or may not have gave you) for the heavier rear spring? I only ever had springs for the old Sachs shocks...

I mean, for the (lost track, you have the "racing reiger rear" or "Raga reiger rear" dual adjustable, or Ohlins rear shock?

and another question, if you have the most recent gasgas bike, is the front is still Marzoocchi even on the 2012 bikes right? (ignore spelling).

thanks.
I think Jon has a new Raga bike - so is fortunate to have the Reiger shock with the Adjustable rebound and compression damping. The forks are still Marzocchi's but with new valving to match the new shock.
laser17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 07:56 AM   #43
Sting32
Trials Evangelist
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis, Ks
Oddometer: 1,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
I think Jon has a new Raga bike - so is fortunate to have the Reiger shock with the Adjustable rebound and compression damping. The forks are still Marzocchi's but with new valving to match the new shock.
Thanks, we own the newest raga 300 for this year as well. got it in sept of 11 I believe it was just in time for our regionals I recall.

I just haven't seen anyone with a '12 racing version yet. I semi recalled someone mentioned in this thread, which my information was "older' but was told that they "expected" theyd be sold with a slightly less expensive reiger version, which had only a single (cant recall what) adjustable reiger shock to be sold on the racings models and then, was it to be Sachs on the regular models? (Ill go look after I press post). IT is confusing though because you look at racing models on website it says reiger (2way) and now dotn know what that means, raga spelled it out differently, so go figure.

Anyway, I just wondered if maybe we got lucky and GASGAS, maybe went with the same shock as the Raga for the racing model after all...

Ours still had the older (AJP) brakes, has anyone in USA seen the bikes with new MFG brakes? I read only a few reports on TC, about new brakes (might be, or just suggesting) needing some more design and testing from parts "flexing" I think it was?
Sting32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 09:43 AM   #44
laser17
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Boston,Massachusetts
Oddometer: 716
Congrats on the new Raga. I made the mistake of riding a few and now think my bike sucks...(not that I come close to exceeding its "lesser" capabilities)

The new Race models just came in after several delays and, NO - they dont have a rebound adj. I too was anxious to see if they "maybe" had the rebound capability - but the two Ive seen did not. (I swear GG is like a lottery and will occasionally upgrade bikes on a seemingly random basis...I wouldnt rule an upgrade out for some lucky guy)

The confusing terminology is because they consider spring preload one of the adjustments. So the Std bike and Race models have 2 adjustments!

The new formula brakes seem very good straight out of the box.(BTW: all the Ragas were still AJP) The formula levers are very nice. The brakes feel strong and linear. I know there was alot of chatter before regarding issues, but so far so good as far as Ive heard. Maybe to soon to really be certain - but given the choice - i would pick Formula. The clutch seemed good too - but again - very low sample size. I thing the pull is slightly higher. (could be clutch pak thickness issue)

IMHO: Even though the race models have the "cheaper shock" - its still a huge improvement over the Sachs or even the Ohlins on last years bike - provided you dont need a big spring change it should work very very well. Since im an engineer, I cant help but drool over the newer Reiger "factory" shock with all its capabilities and think good riders will get alot out of it. I think this must have been what GG was talking about last year with all the "patented" rear suspension talk. I hope it shows up on this years Raga bike.

The new magnetic kill tether is interesting. I can see this saving a few engines and can also see a few unintentional killed motors. we'll see.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
Thanks, we own the newest raga 300 for this year as well. got it in sept of 11 I believe it was just in time for our regionals I recall.

I just haven't seen anyone with a '12 racing version yet. I semi recalled someone mentioned in this thread, which my information was "older' but was told that they "expected" theyd be sold with a slightly less expensive reiger version, which had only a single (cant recall what) adjustable reiger shock to be sold on the racings models and then, was it to be Sachs on the regular models? (Ill go look after I press post). IT is confusing though because you look at racing models on website it says reiger (2way) and now dotn know what that means, raga spelled it out differently, so go figure.

Anyway, I just wondered if maybe we got lucky and GASGAS, maybe went with the same shock as the Raga for the racing model after all...

Ours still had the older (AJP) brakes, has anyone in USA seen the bikes with new MFG brakes? I read only a few reports on TC, about new brakes (might be, or just suggesting) needing some more design and testing from parts "flexing" I think it was?
laser17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 02:34 PM   #45
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Thursday!

I am getting the "Race" and agree that the "2-way" means preload and a single damping adjustment, as the Raga is listed as having "3-way" adjustment.

I pick it up on Thursday! I do have an event this weekend but probably won't have any time to fire it up until after the weekend.... I am hoping to get it all kitted out with the stiffer springs and such by the time the CO nats roll around but we shall see: I am keeping the 2011 for now, since I feel it is working great for me. I made the mistake of riding Texas last year on a bike I had only ridden two or three times and didn't really have a great weekend. I guess I don't have the skill/experience to ride around a bike that isn't "just right".

I guess I better go practice. All this suspension tuning doesn't do a thing if your feet are on the ground!!!
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014