2013 Dakar Pre-Event Discussion

[Jurassic]

Originally Posted by too old

Robbie Gordon got back in, so perhaps not politics

That's probably why they didn't allow too many other US entries, figure he'll make enough noise to count for about twenty guys on bikes!

[barrier]

Anyone know if there is an official factory backed Hover Bike team this year?

[NAVIGATOR]

Originally Posted by johnBOYhenson

and on that note, Ned, do you think the process is purely analytic, or politics, or both?

thanks for ALL your insights thus far, btw..!

Man... and I thougth that you only had to pay your fee and race!!!!, How does ASO make the choice of who gets in and races and who doesen´t?

[SteveDennehy]

Originally Posted by NAVIGATOR

Man... and I thougth that you only had to pay your fee and race!!!!, How does ASO make the choice of who gets in and races and who doesen´t?

[Jurassic]

Originally Posted by NAVIGATOR

Man... and I thougth that you only had to pay your fee and race!!!!, How does ASO make the choice of who gets in and races and who doesen´t?

I think there's an element of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". As I understand it (and I may be wrong) having someone on the inside pulling strings for you is a good way to improve your chance of getting a start, so in the case of Charley Boorman (who let's be honest was a no hoper) he had the support of a guy called Chris Evans who works for ASO and also happened to be a Brit and who lobbied on the behalf of the Race to Dakar team and facilitated their entry. Obviously Si Pavey was far from being a no hoper and having him in the team did their entry chances no harm whatsoever. There's probably a large quantity of pure luck involved as well (Si Pavey's son Llewellyn was hoping to ride alongside his Dad this time but had his entry declined).
I just found this list of ASO worldwide representatives, having your respective rep fighting your corner would be a help I imagine.
http://www.dakar.com/2010/DAK/presen...ome-tools.html

[pebble35]

Originally Posted by barrier

Anyone know if there is an official factory backed Hover Bike team this year?

I would have loved to see a full Factory effort running KTM 950 Hover bikes - here's inmate Pyndon testing one

[NAVIGATOR]

Originally Posted by Jurassic

I think there's an element of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". As I understand it (and I may be wrong) having someone on the inside pulling strings for you is a good way to improve your chance of getting a start, so in the case of Charley Boorman (who let's be honest was a no hoper) he had the support of a guy called Chris Evans who works for ASO and also happened to be a Brit and who lobbied on the behalf of the Race to Dakar team and facilitated their entry. Obviously Si Pavey was far from being a no hoper and having him in the team did their entry chances no harm whatsoever. There's probably a large quantity of pure luck involved as well (Si Pavey's son Llewellyn was hoping to ride alongside his Dad this time but had his entry declined).
I just found this list of ASO worldwide representatives, having your respective rep fighting your corner would be a help I imagine.
http://www.dakar.com/2010/DAK/presen...ome-tools.html

Very detailed explanation thank you, it almost sounds like a private club where you are "judged" by peers and organizers-team owners, maybe it is to keep the high standards of cometition and safety in a really dangerous several days long event.

[Jurassic]

Originally Posted by NAVIGATOR

Very detailed explanation thank you, it almost sounds like a private club where you are "judged" by peers and organizers-team owners, maybe it is to keep the high standards of cometition and safety in a really dangerous several days long event.

I don't know for sure NAVIGATOR but I suspect that there will be an element of that along with a large element of luck as well. Maybe Neduro or one of the other cognoscenti on here can shed more light on the selection process?

[Dread Pendragon]

Originally Posted by NAVIGATOR

Very detailed explanation thank you, it almost sounds like a private club where you are "judged" by peers and organizers-team owners, maybe it is to keep the high standards of cometition and safety in a really dangerous several days long event.

The unfairness of it really stings when you're the one left out, but I think I might run it the same way if I were in charge. It is probably the best way to reach certain objectives. For marketing purposes it was surely a good idea to allow Charlie Boorman to race. Including the Race2Recovery guys was probably a good idea. It guess it leaves room for corruption or pettiness, though, and I strongly sympathize with Llewellyn Pavey's and Jacob Smith's frustration.

[neduro]

Originally Posted by wrk2surf

Ned who else besides Mike S. do you know of that didn't make the cut..

There are a few, but that's there news to share, not mine.

Originally Posted by johnBOYhenson

and on that note, Ned, do you think the process is purely analytic, or politics, or both?

thanks for ALL your insights thus far, btw..!

You're welcome! Thanks for sending me last year!

I think both elements play a part. Many of the folks that have been turned down haven't had a very good competitive resume, or have been on teams where their individual contribution was hard to judge, etc. I haven't heard of many folks with a legit and current comp background being declined, other factors notwithstanding.

I'm convinced that what got me an entry was the Raid d'la Amitie which is a French event they are familiar with. I don't think my mid-pack background in SCORE/ ISDE Qualifiers/ Enduros/ BITD etc were nearly as relevant to them, even though they were harder events that were more similar to Dakar in many ways.

[cyborg]

Doyle, I see the Main F5irehose thread is up. Subbed! It would be great to know what the ADV avatar names were for the inmate competitors. Maybe you could put that alongside their Dakar info line for each rider.

[johnBOYhenson]

Originally Posted by neduro

I'm convinced that what got me an entry was the Raid d'la Amitie which is a French event they are familiar with.

hmmmm....so add a euro/africa based rally to the CV and you've got much better chances.... I like it!

Regardless of my qualifications, or my chances (if I should every apply), you don't have to twist my arm much to take a trip across the pond, especially if there's a motorcycle involved.....

[Mad Cow]

Originally Posted by Jurassic

I think there's an element of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". As I understand it (and I may be wrong) having someone on the inside pulling strings for you is a good way to improve your chance of getting a start, so in the case of Charley Boorman (who let's be honest was a no hoper) he had the support of a guy called Chris Evans who works for ASO and also happened to be a Brit and who lobbied on the behalf of the Race to Dakar team and facilitated their entry. Obviously Si Pavey was far from being a no hoper and having him in the team did their entry chances no harm whatsoever. There's probably a large quantity of pure luck involved as well (Si Pavey's son Llewellyn was hoping to ride alongside his Dad this time but had his entry declined).
I just found this list of ASO worldwide representatives, having your respective rep fighting your corner would be a help I imagine.
http://www.dakar.com/2010/DAK/presen...ome-tools.html

The fact that Chris Evans happens to live a lot of the time in France, runs a off road tour company there AND has been Cyril Despres' Manager for several years does make him a handy guy to have on board

Knowing ASO from cycling, there tends to be as much controversy over which teams get into the Tour de France, no one seems to know the magic formula there either

I suspect "marketability" does factor large into it, i.e. where they sell the most TV coverage (i.e. Advertising potential) must be a factor in choosing entries.

I would have thought that having a Father and Son team like Si and Llewelyn in the race would have been very marketable but what do I know?

Certainly having Mr Boorman in the race was a smart move at the time due to the free advertising the Dakar got on the back of "that bloke what rode round the world with his famous actor mate" factor (and obviously the TV series that resulted). It certainly raised the profile of the Dakar in the UK, which was previously only known as the race in which the former Prime Ministers son had got lost!

[Gian]

Originally Posted by Jurassic

I just found this list of ASO worldwide representatives, having your respective rep fighting your corner would be a help I imagine.
http://www.dakar.com/2010/DAK/presen...ome-tools.html

this is the up to date link

http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2013/fr/contacts-utiles.html

[auguzt]

Originally Posted by NAVIGATOR

...How does ASO make the choice of who gets in and races and who doesen´t?

Below is a rough translation of an interesting interview to David Castera that italian journalist Elisabetta Caracciolo has published on her blog. You may read the entire text here (in italian): http://quellidellafrica.myblog.it/ar...d-castera.html
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What a biker have to do to come and race the Dakar? This year many valid racers have seen their entry refused, what can we say to these people?
"It is true that also this year we have refused 60 entries, and they are a lot. But we can not accept everyone..." At this point I stop him, But bike entries this year are only 189, they're not 200 as in the past?
"No, no, I know about that, but I cannot get over certain numbers. If I do it I simply overtake our safety threshold in the race, we did it in 2009 and we soon realised about that mistake, it has been very complicated. So we said ourselves, let's get down a bit, let's just look for a right number of entries and we have determined this in a total of 230 racers between bikes and quads. Safety comes first. With regards to racers it is true that we have applied a good selection and there were maybe two or three that could have been allowed in, but you know how it goes, when you have 300 dossiers in front of you and you have to take account of who is the guy, what he did, how old is he, which is his team, from which country he is from... because also this aspect is important, we have to choose a right percentage of riders for every country. You have italians, but also french, spanish, americans, and there is a time to decide. For sure someone has been excluded and deserved to get in, but we will allow him next year. Nobody is excluded for his entire life. This year we get, priorily, people that we did not get last year..."
I wrinkle my nose and I shake my head, and he goes on :
"Listen, here is an example. Last year we did not accept two bikers - I perfectly remember their names - that have not done any race in Africa or any kind of long rally race. This year they sent exactly the same dossier, they did not add a single race from their past resumee. But we have refused also other 10 people that have never attempted a rally race. And there were others who did Morocco, Egypt or Dubai, but we could not allow them in. Let's say that the rule is you must have done at least a few rallies. And if you have not been allowed this year you will be next year for sure, this is clear."
Can be part of a certain team help in a way? Or what if a team has many riders?
"Well, of course I can not let in a team of 40 bikes. Sometimes it is important, but also in this case it is not simple because you do not know from the beginning how many riders the team will bring. Anyway the country is more important: I know that I cannot let in 50 italians and 10 french. If I really had 50 dossiers from italian racers I would have been obliged to let some of them at home... It is over-complicated, really! Believe me, it's not easy."
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