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Old 09-03-2012, 08:59 PM   #166
M Singer
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Jud, thanks for the tip. I used the ratchet strap over a 2x4 bock to hold the beads in the drop center then proceeded with my no mar bar as usual. Had a good ride over the Cherohala Skyway and eh Dragon with the CT. I'm happy with it so far.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:41 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by devo2002 View Post
Seems to me the money you are saving with car tires is being spent on chains (and I hope also sprockets, otherwise that would explain the low miles). Car tire or not, a chain should outlast one tire.
Just like tire life, chain life depends entirely on the chain and the conditions.

And yea,,,,, I change sprockets and chain as a set. Always have. The longest lasting chain I've ever had has been in the 15-20K range and like I said, that's the longest. Many go before 10K, especially the dual sport chains. And yea, I know,,,,,, people will no doubt tell me I'm doing "it" wrong. Apparently been doing "it" wrong for ohhhh,,,,, bout 30 years or so every way possible from meticulous maintenance to no maintenance to a chain oiler ever. No silver bullets that I've found so I prolly ain't gonna be doing "it" right no time soon and I really don't care to hear how to do "it" right.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:35 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by kellymac530 View Post
I do not want get into the arguement of right and wrong, good or bad, blah blah blah.

I have read the entire thread this morning for the first time, wow.

My impression having read it in one sitting is that the supporters of CT have changed their tune just a bit. That is ok though. They were getting lambasted and dog piled on in the begining and they were lashing out, understandable, I do the same thing at times myself, overdefend my opinions rather than use reasoning and sound judgement.

In the first page or 3 the CT supporters were flat out saying they were better in virtually every way, the last few pages they have calmly admitted that there is a trade off and they are willing to accept that trade for the benefits. Fine, much more reasonable approach.

I think they also insisted it had nothing to do with money and being to cheap to buy MT but rather they were just better and did not want to change a tire every 5-10k, I will buy into that. I admit the idea of riding some 10-20k mile ride without needing to change a couple of tires along the way is good. More recent pages have also revealed that the CT guys do indeed prefer the money savings over the performance losses, I see their reasoning and find no fault with that.
Really? I changed my tune ehh?

My 2nd post {the 1st was to actually address the thread starter's actual question}-

Quote:
Why? Why not? Because the peanut galley says the atmosphere will catch fire, kittens maimed and nuns will die????

Seriously though,,,,, I did it for a specific reason, that being I was gonna go on a long ass trip {15-20K miles} and there isn't a single bike tire out there that will reliably do that sorta mieage. I normally bring a spare as I have had to replace a tire and been caught out one too many times due to tire availability or getting screwed price wise. This time, the trip was to be two up and I didn't have room for a spare. I put it on thinking I would absolutely hate it but would basically just live with it for the trip so I wouldn't have to buy a tire along the way.

Much to my surprise, it isn't too bad once you find the right pressure to run which fore me is around 20psi. It actually has alot of traction,,,, yes, even when heeled over as the tire distorts and it probably has more rubber on the road than a 150 sized "proper" motorcycle tire. Would I mount a car tire on the rear of a Gixxer and go play Ricky Racer up in the mountains? Nope and I will also admit I don't like it much in rough, rocky and rutted dirt roads either. But for long trips or mundane commuting,,,,, I will state right now, it's a damned good compromise. You wouldn't throw a Pilot Power on the back of your adv tourer and expect it to last a 10K mile trip nor would run mount a TKC to the front of your Gixxer and do a trackday. All tires are a compromise and this may well be the best compromise for commuting and touring. I can move along pretty well on my turd of a DL650 with the car tire on back and I can push hard enough that I worry about pushing the front 705 so tell me why I need a bike tire for the rear unless I'm hitting the dirt and I'll tell you right now, I have no visions of pacing Valentino and the Wee Turd is no Gixxer.
My recent "update"-

Quote:
I still dislike the CT when running on really rough, unmaintained roads though. Really rocky and rutted roads is honestly the one condition other than mud where I wished I had another tire out back. Yes, the CT is way heavy and that extra weight does slighly hurt acceleration. The added unsprung weight does slightly hurt handling when running at a 90% or better pace but honestly, how often are you running that hard on a Strom,,,,,,, on the street? Even then, it only really makes itself known during cornering on really rough stuff like washboard dirt roads or big bumps in the middle of corners. The only real handling "quirk" is the tires tendency to cause the rear of the bike to wag a bit when rough with the throttle or steering inputs when heeled over and running hard. You will never notice it if you ride like most folks do. If you are a really hard charger,,,,,, you will notice it but you get used to it like one gets used to how a knobby squirms when ridden hard on tarmac. Just a odd trait, nothing to bug about once you get used to it.

All tire choices on these type bikes are a compromise. A Pilot Power when stick great in the corners and will return nice crisp feel but it will be done in 3K miles or even less if you really play hard. If taken off road it had better be hard packed dirt roads and even then they suck.

On the other end of the compromise is something like a TKC or a Big Block. They work amazingly well on the tarmac and have plenty of traction but their feel at the outer edges of the envelope leave alot to be desired. Oh,,,,, and they are like butter in a hot pan when it comes to tire life.

Then you have compromise tires like the Tourance, Anake and the 705s. All work OK on the tarmac and give better traction on dirt roads and such than say that Pilot Power but they ain't knobbies. Tire life is mediocre in my opinion,,,,, basically double a knobby.

I suppose one could run a full on touring tire like the ME880 or the new Commander but I figure they suck at cornering both on and off the tarmac.

The CT I have on my DL gives more traction on and off road than a compromise tire like the 705 or a touring tire like the ME880 and gives better life, much better. Like 1.5-2 times the life. Considering I commute 300 miles a week, I need/want a tire with long life. The CT delivers

When not commuting I play in the mountains pretty regularly and I can play pretty hard at times so I need pretty good traction on road. The CT delivers.

When in the mountains playing, I often hit alot of forestry roads and some are rarely maintained. Of all the things I do with the bike, this is the area where the CT is at it's weakest abut even here, excepting rocks, ruts and mud,,,,,, it does pretty well here too. Better than all but a knobby.

Yep,,,,,, I'm liking this CT experiment pretty dern good. Can ya tell!

Yep,,,,, really changed my tune completly ehh? Oh yea,,, in that 2nd post I adamatly stated a car tire was the "end all" of tires and there wasn't a drawback one as compared to a bike tire. Later I canged my tune and started to admit the CT was a compromise. Yea buddy.

If anything, you have it backwards. Matter of fact the original antagonists that say we are stupid for doing it haven't conceded an inch. They are still saying it's "dangerous", they are still saying that anyone that would do such a thing is stupid and that the only reason it works at all for these "stupid folk" is because they don't corner hard. Oh yea, the darksiders are ones that are not "realistic" of their tire choice. Darksiders are the ones that don't understand that all tires are some kind of compromise especially one an Adv type bike and darksiders are the ones that have a hard time with reasoning and sound judgment.


Good thing you are such an impartial bystander. Now I finally see that my CT choice is in fact a compromise and that it doesn't do everything from mud, to trackday duty to banging out the mileage like a touring tire. I now see that it's doesn't handle as crisply in the twisties as a Pilot Power, it doesn't do mud like a TKC and all that extra weight hurts accleration and ultimate handling at the extreems. Thanks, 'preciate that,,,,,,,,,,, wouldn't have ever come to that realization all on my own.

Now,,,,, rather than pontificate eloquently upon all the many virtues of my racing background, my training certs and my years of experience both as a rider, a tourer and a mechanic,,,,,,, I'll just say that I invite anyone one that is genuinely curious about this to come out and ride with me. Don't bother bringing your Gixxer on Pilot Races though as the ride I take you on will be a nice loop that will actually mirror how a Adv Bike is actually used. A bit of hwy pounding, a bit of corner carving, some dirt road mileage ranging from groomed dirt roads to rarely maintained jeep trails and will probably include some water crossings. Unlike some in here, I'm not trying to say I know it all, that I and only I have all the experience or that I'm faster than this person or that which is so very cool especially when you have no idea of the other person's abilities.

Seriously, come out and take a spin with me, my DL and my shitty Shinko 705 front and my dangerous CT out back. Put your ass where your ASSumptions are.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:55 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Singer View Post
Jud, thanks for the tip. I used the ratchet strap over a 2x4 bock to hold the beads in the drop center then proceeded with my no mar bar as usual. Had a good ride over the Cherohala Skyway and eh Dragon with the CT. I'm happy with it so far.

Glad I could be of some help rather than a constant sorce of BS like some in this thread. The bottom line is that you just have to get that bead into the valley of the rim if you are gonna get that opposite side bead on. I know you already knew that just as I did but real world practice can sometimes be very different than perfect world theory. I knew why the pneumatic machine was stalling and I knew why the levers couldn't get that bead to slip over the rim all the way around. It just took me a bit to to address the problem with a technique that would allow me to get that bead down in there and keep it there untill the opposite side bead was slipped on.

Just take it easy, slowly work out the tire pressure you like best. It does handle differently and it can take awhile for some to get used to and gain confidence in it and please remember,,,,, you do have a CT out back, not a Pilot Power. No different that having to use a modicum of restraint when playing in the twisties when running a ME880 or a knobby.

I will repeat for the umptenth time though, you know,,,,,,, for the peanut galley ya know. I don't give up much if anything in traction when running a CT out back as opposed to the type tires it replaced {Big Block/Shinko 705 or Tourance}.

My FJR's rear tire is starting to show some wear {running a Shinko Verge} and I'm on the fence on what to run next. I no longer have a full on sportbike and I have been using the FJR as my mountain play toy so I'm not sure I want to mount up a CT or not. I have no doubt it'll work and work well but the FJR is no SUV of bikes like the DL is. More of a four door sports sedan and I like mixing it up with the squidlets on sportbikes so I'm not sure I want to trade mileage for handling on the big FJR and I'm even less willing to lose some HP to the CT's extra reciprocating weight. We'll see I reckon. That is as long as that derned atmosphere doesn't catch fire and those pussies stay placated {no pussy maiming y'all!}.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:30 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jud View Post

My FJR's rear tire is starting to show some wear {running a Shinko Verge} and I'm on the fence on what to run next. I no longer have a full on sportbike and I have been using the FJR as my mountain play toy so I'm not sure I want to mount up a CT or not. I have no doubt it'll work and work well but the FJR is no SUV of bikes like the DL is. More of a four door sports sedan and I like mixing it up with the squidlets on sportbikes so I'm not sure I want to trade mileage for handling on the big FJR and I'm even less willing to lose some HP to the CT's extra reciprocating weight. We'll see I reckon. That is as long as that derned atmosphere doesn't catch fire and those pussies stay placated {no pussy maiming y'all!}.

That statement say's a lot

and FWIF I am in the "I will stick to my bike tire's for my bike's camp". Nothing like the feeling of a nice round new tire

But I also having nothing against people running CT's your ride your choice.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:07 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWRCRZR View Post
That statement say's a lot




and I've stated that from the beginning. No "change of my tune" at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWRCRZR View Post
and FWIF I am in the "I will stick to my bike tire's for my bike's camp". Nothing like the feeling of a nice round new tire
I know what you mean but ummmmm,,,,,,,, running a car tire doesn't quite feel like running an old, squared off bike tire. Honestly, you would be surprised at how "normal" a CT feels once you find the right pressure to run it at. Surprised the hell outta me as like I keep saying, I fully expected to hate it when I started my experiment.

Quote:
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But I also having nothing against people running CT's your ride your choice.
Thanks for being civil and agreeing to disagree.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Jud View Post



Thanks for being civil and agreeing to disagree.
Who says I was being civil, I just realized arguing with you would be futile






























Not likely I will ever lever one on my bike....but I would try a bike shod with one...what's the worse that could happen
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:29 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by PWRCRZR View Post
Who says I was being civil, I just realized arguing with you would be futile






























Not likely I will ever lever one on my bike....but I would try a bike shod with one...what's the worse that could happen




Resistance is Futile!!!!!!!!!! Gonna have to change the Darkside moniker to the "Collective" dammit!

The worst????? You know,,,,, the beads will catasprophically fly off and will of course kill nuns, maim kittens {make that pussies}, the sky will catch fire and it will be the end of the world as we know it!

Just ask the pussies,,,,,,, ummmmmm ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, kittens that is.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Jud View Post
[/COLOR]
I know what you mean but ummmmm,,,,,,,, running a car tire doesn't quite feel like running an old, squared off bike tire. Honestly, you would be surprised at how "normal" a CT feels once you find the right pressure to run it at. Surprised the hell outta me as like I keep saying, I fully expected to hate it when I started my experiment.
I'm already running a darkside bike LOL... My husband just put a CT on my Goldwing, I've been riding it and don't really notice too much difference... but the GW is pretty much a couch on wheels.
When my Wee needs a new back tire, I'm thinkin' I may go darkside with that that too.
Thanks for the Thread starter! It's been helpful
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:59 AM   #175
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Right around 12K on the CT now, getting real thin but like I have been saying, been really rough on this one. Off-tarmac traction has really fallen off now but on-tarmac traction is juss fine. Maybe 15K,,,, dunno. If so,,,,,, I really think a CT tire could easily give 20K if used in a touring or a regular commuter type application. Had I been using Tourances or 705s,,,, I would probably be on my third one by now, maybe the 4th! Once again, I can't see a better option if you mostly use your DL like that. If you usually run TKCs, maybe not. If you normally run Pilot Powers or the like,,,,,, maybe not. If you find yourself norlally running a Tourance, 705 or something like a ME880 on the rear,,,,,, you just might be quite happy with a CT.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:15 AM   #176
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BTW,,, last update on the CT as it's been swapped out finally. It lasted roughly 13K miles and was getting fairly thin, 'specially on the edges. Coulda probably went at least another 500 miles but I handed it over to a guy for some mechanical work and just got him to swap the CT out for a used take off 705 I had laying around. So, roughly a year on the back of the DL and 13K miles of extremly rough usage with tire pressures between 15 and 25psi. Lots of hard acceleration,,,,, wheelies, spinning on dirt roads. Lots of hard deceleration and hard braking {locking up the rear to slide around playing around}, basically beat the crap outta em.

I'll eventually pop another CT on there but I have about a half dozen bike tire rears I have laying around I need to use up.

'Nother BTW,,,,,, that derned front 705 is still going. It's cupped fairly bad but still has plenty of tread and as far as fronts go,,,,,,, I've been fairly hard on it too. I tend to run between 30-35psi in it and I honestly think it'll outlast this nearly new 705 rear that took the place of the CT.

If only Shinko would soften up the front rubber a smidge and make the rear compound a but harder. Maybe have both wear out at the same time around 10-12K might be nice. Also wish Shink would make a TKC contender. The Kenda Big Block wears like butter on Teaxas tarmac.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:39 AM   #177
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Darkside at 13K-
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:34 AM   #178
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And that CT was new when you put it on?
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:23 PM   #179
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Yep, new. I put on the front 705, the CT and the chain and sprockets all at the same time. The chain went at around 9-10K, the CT around 13K. Looks like the front 705 will go an easy 15, maybe 20K miles. The front 705 outlasted all of em by a significant margin! Like I said before, I wish Shinko would use a slightly softer compound for the front or make it slightly more aggressive with more void and then make the rear out of a slightly harder compound so they might wear at roughly the same rate. Right now, the front is my traction "fuse" on the dirt and the tarmac. Would rather the rear lose traction first if I had my druthers. But,,,, the traction from the front isn't too bad and man, a front that will easily go 15K isn't a bad thing I don't reckon.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:55 AM   #180
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Yep, new. I put on the front 705, the CT and the chain and sprockets all at the same time. The chain went at around 9-10K, the CT around 13K. Looks like the front 705 will go an easy 15, maybe 20K miles. The front 705 outlasted all of em by a significant margin! Like I said before, I wish Shinko would use a slightly softer compound for the front or make it slightly more aggressive with more void and then make the rear out of a slightly harder compound so they might wear at roughly the same rate. Right now, the front is my traction "fuse" on the dirt and the tarmac. Would rather the rear lose traction first if I had my druthers. But,,,, the traction from the front isn't too bad and man, a front that will easily go 15K isn't a bad thing I don't reckon.
That's not too good for a CT. I have 8k on a Hankook, on a ST 1300 and its looks almost new. I expect ~20 out of it. Once the edges get knocked down a bit, the handling is the same as a MT. I'll stick with the Hankook, doing 15k - 18k per year puts me in a constant tire change mode with the 7k MT life. I've been stuck in places and had to pay top dollar for the tires and hotels mid-trip. It can end up a $500 tire with all the add ons. I may buy a Vstrom 650 as a second bike and the CT option is one of the main reasons. If you read Trip Reports, tires wearouts are a non-stop issue. The CT at least makes that one less problem, if trips are started with fresh rubber.
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