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Old 04-02-2012, 08:03 PM   #46
tbounds OP
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I talked to vech and doesn't work on anything that new . I did find a shop in new orleans called chucks motorsport .I talkedmwith chuck and was helpful anybody have any dealings with them . Chuck suggested he could remove front cover and acces bearing to replace pin . He also suggested replacing timing chain while he in there.he thought it shouldnt beaver $1000 if that was all it takes???? Any thoughts from the masses
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:17 AM   #47
AliBaba
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This link gives a good overview of the job. Text is German but there is a lot of pictures: http://www.seelhorst-koeln.de/Hobby/...nde/Haupt4.htm

It looks like it's possible to do it without removing the cylinders and crank. So that means that if you are carefull and don't feel the need to inspect anything else it's a days job.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:41 AM   #48
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I wouldn't do it without pulling the motor. Much easier to reinstall the carrier with the block heated and vertical, plus you get to check a bunch of other stuff also. The bike is 20 years old! Give it some love.

Bud, either my coffee hasn't worked yet or someone got the diagram numbers wrong up there. The 07119942050 (#2 in the parts list) 4x10 pin is what we're talking about, but the late diagram points to the wrong one. In the early diagram it's 6.

I associate this failure with earlier years, like mid-'80s. I've heard about it a lot on R80 models, and recently repaired an '85 R80 with this.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:49 AM   #49
tbounds OP
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I am about to the point of just riding the bike and not trying to put pin back in bike and re pen it. I probably don't ride the bike 2k miles a year . It looks like it would cost me a min. of $1000 to put pin back in or more depending on if the motor has to be pulled . then it goes way up.
How much would it cost if the by some chance the bearing did come loose from carrier which it is pressed into to begin with ? What most likely would happen ? Would i notice anything that would clue me in before a complete grenading of engine? I can't see how it could be much more than what it's going to cost to replace a pin in crankshaft .
Now that i have expressed my ignorance please reply with thoughts.
thanks
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:31 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbounds View Post
I can't see how it could be much more than what it's going to cost to replace a pin in crankshaft .
If it goes really wrong, you have to get a new crankshaft, new big end bearings, new crank bearings. Mostly the same labor with the addition of some very pricey parts as well. You'd also fill the rest of your engine with metal filings, so there's no telling what else you might damage; cam, lifters, rocker bearings, oil pump, etc. I'd fix it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #51
disston
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If it goes then, depending on the shape of the rest of the motorcycle, you have remaining a parts bike or you are in the market for another engine.

If you don't see fit to spend $1000+ now to keep this then I doubt it will be worth putting another engine in when it does blow. Of course you could be searching for the other engine now, while you ride bike. If you are not in a hurry, desperate, better deals can sometimes be found.

Most of our bikes are only worth around 3K. It's hard to put half that amount into it at once. But if you do decide to fix this you will not be alone. A lot of us have spent much more than our bikes are worth to run them.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:51 PM   #52
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How'd you arrive at the $1000 figure? Pull the engine on your own, pull the heads, cylinders, timing cover and timing chain and then take it to your local airhead specialist. I'd guess it'd be a $300 fix from there with a couple afternoons of your own time invested.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:58 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbounds View Post
I am about to the point of just riding the bike and not trying to put pin back in bike and re pen it. I probably don't ride the bike 2k miles a year . It looks like it would cost me a min. of $1000 to put pin back in or more depending on if the motor has to be pulled . then it goes way up.
How much would it cost if the by some chance the bearing did come loose from carrier which it is pressed into to begin with ? What most likely would happen ? Would i notice anything that would clue me in before a complete grenading of engine? I can't see how it could be much more than what it's going to cost to replace a pin in crankshaft .
Now that i have expressed my ignorance please reply with thoughts.
thanks
If the bearing moves it will stop oil flow to the rocker arms. You could check and make sure your valve covers have oil in them after every ride. Sometimes the bearing does not move without the pin. I don't think it is better to remove the engine for that repair. There is nothing that can't be looked over perfectly with the engine in the frame IMO. I remove the engine to replace the rear main bearing but . . . . The chassis makes a damn good engine stand.

How many miles are on the bike? If you replace the timing chain, replace the crank sprocket too. It will already be removed. Worn chains almost always means a worn crank sprocket too. Good luck!
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:44 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
How'd you arrive at the $1000 figure? Pull the engine on your own, pull the heads, cylinders, timing cover and timing chain and then take it to your local airhead specialist. I'd guess it'd be a $300 fix from there with a couple afternoons of your own time invested.
Yup. Do the easy parts at home. Hand tools, a Harbor Freight bearing splitter (for the outrigger ball bearing) and a Haynes manual will get that carrier off and in your hands. Cut the timing chain off and buy one with a master link. Pull the outrigger bearing. The carrier and main bearing will just barely slide off past the sprocket. Careful not to nick the new one going back in.

You could even then mail the carrier to your favorite airhead repairman for a new bearing install.

Or, if you want to stop short of pulling the bearing, sprocket and carrier off the crankshaft, just pull the motor, take off the two covers and haul the motor down to a shop for the rest. I just will not pay $100/hr for shop labor to do the grunt work of tearing things down to get at what really needs expert work or special tools. I took my crankshaft in to have the sprocket pulled off. $25 in labor. I'll do the same when I'm ready to have the bell pulled off the driveshaft.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #55
supershaft
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Originally Posted by DiabloADV View Post
Yup. Do the easy parts at home. Hand tools, a Harbor Freight bearing splitter (for the outrigger ball bearing) and a Haynes manual will get that carrier off and in your hands. Cut the timing chain off and buy one with a master link. Pull the outrigger bearing. The carrier and main bearing will just barely slide off past the sprocket. Careful not to nick the new one going back in.

You could even then mail the carrier to your favorite airhead repairman for a new bearing install.

Or, if you want to stop short of pulling the bearing, sprocket and carrier off the crankshaft, just pull the motor, take off the two covers and haul the motor down to a shop for the rest. I just will not pay $100/hr for shop labor to do the grunt work of tearing things down to get at what really needs expert work or special tools. I took my crankshaft in to have the sprocket pulled off. $25 in labor. I'll do the same when I'm ready to have the bell pulled off the driveshaft.
The simplex chain already has a master link.

It takes a special puller to get the bearing web out. (I call them webs because that is what the Offenhauser guys call them.) You basically need a bar puller and some long bolts.

I have never tried pulling the web without first pulling the sprocket. It would be close. IF it can be done, it sounds like a good way to gouge a brand new bearing putting it back on.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:53 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
The simplex chain already has a master link.

It takes a special puller to get the bearing web out. (I call them webs because that is what the Offenhauser guys call them.) You basically need a bar puller and some long bolts.

I have never tried pulling the web without first pulling the sprocket. It would be close. IF it can be done, it sounds like a good way to gouge a brand new bearing putting it back on.
Hmmm...my carrier came out with a little gentle prying with rubber-coated tool handles. The Haynes manual gives those instructions and it worked.

In fact, I got the entire crank, camshaft, both sprockets, carrier and chain ... to all come out as a unit. It took some delicate balancing, but I got it all wiggled out. Tricky part was turning the crank 180 degrees while holding everything else.

But, as you said, it's a good way to bugger up a main bearing. Mine is getting replaced, so I didn't care so much. It will all go back together in the conventional manner.

But speaking of the pin (back on topic)...the new main bearings are grooved on the backside...IOW, the oil holes don't need to stay perfectly aligned...I'm just guessing, of course. But...is there something to that?

EDIT: Never mind. I see why the front one has to stay aligned...the other two oil holes at 10 and 2 in the pic:


\

Which leads to my next question...the fiche shows the front and rear bearing as the same part. But, my rear main does not have those two extra oil holes...only the one in the center groove. Is the fiche wrong?
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DiabloADV screwed with this post 04-10-2012 at 05:04 PM
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:18 PM   #57
robtg
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The oil and locating pin holes are drilled and reamed after bearing installation.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:27 PM   #58
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Ah yes...I hadn't got that far in my learning curve yet. I just read that section of the manuals.
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1970 R60/5

'91 Bill Holland Steel w/Dura Ace[/SIZE]
'01 Z3 3.0 Coupe. The Clownshoe.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:16 PM   #59
supershaft
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I would be careful not to bugger anything up wedging the web out without a puller.

Your front main looks a lot worse for wear than your rear main from what I can see. Usually it's the rear main that shows more wear.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:20 PM   #60
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I would be careful not to bugger anything up wedging the web out without a puller.

Your front main looks a lot worse for wear than your rear main from what I can see. Usually it's the rear main that shows more wear.
Yeah...I think I have to do 'em both. There's score lines all the way around that you can catch your fingernail in. From what I read, that front bearing is among the more delicate procedures one can do on these bikes.
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'91 Bill Holland Steel w/Dura Ace[/SIZE]
'01 Z3 3.0 Coupe. The Clownshoe.
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