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Old 04-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #61
supershaft
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The first thing I would do is clean the web real well and look very carefully for cracks. The earlier ones are a lot lighter than the later ones and tend to break for it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
The first thing I would do is clean the web real well and look very carefully for cracks. The earlier ones are a lot lighter than the later ones and tend to break for it.
Will do. Many thanks. What is the best (safest) way to pull the pin in the front bearing?
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:13 AM   #63
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Can a later, heavy, web be used in an earlier block that had a lighter one? Are the webs in general interchangeable or they have to go with the block they were made for?
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:39 AM   #64
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I pulled the web on mine with a steering wheel puller/general bearing puller. Put it on the protected nose of the crank, then screw bolts through the puller, and into the holes on the web. They are meant for it.

Honestly, you can pull that engine with a set of: sockets, allen wrenches, box wrenches, and screwdrivers. Possibly even with just the stuff in the toolkit.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:19 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
Can a later, heavy, web be used in an earlier block that had a lighter one? Are the webs in general interchangeable or they have to go with the block they were made for?
Yes, you can.

But somewhere in the back of my mind is something about the oil passages that don't line up.
I'll check tonite how old and new compare.

Paul.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:37 AM   #66
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Interesting area we are getting into. I have several webs. I think I have all older ones. Not sure I haven't done much with this stuff in a year but I'm supposed to be building an r100 engine.

I have found that the web is an easy part to pull. But the problem is the crank gear in front of it. Always protect the crank tip with a button or something. It may be a good idea to pull that bearing first, I usually have pulled it with the gear.

I've done several with Snap On and OTC pullers. I now have a BMW shop puller but it may not work at all because it's damaged.

I think on reassembly it would be a good idea to heat the block and chill the web. Which brings us back to Anton's idea that this whole mess can be easier handled with the engine out of the frame. He would know, he does this stuff daily.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:48 AM   #67
supershaft
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Anton isn't the only one here that works on them every day offering some great advise. Sure you can take the engine out but you don't have to in order to do the job perfectly and that includes heating the case up in the frame and going over the rest of the engine in the frame to give it some love. Personally, the only engine repair that I can think of that can be done better with the engine out of the frame is the rear main bearing. I am just trying to help the OP.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:17 PM   #68
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Okay, here goes on the matter of the front bearing webs, if the OP doesn't mind, that is.

Old vs new;



Note the newer has more 'meat' and a different tensioner for the chain, plunger vs spring, as seen on the right on the right web.

View at the side of the web, the old has 2 holes, one for the oil to enter, and one to feed the camshaft bearing, where the new has a gallery to accommodate both.



How that lines up with the engine casing can be seen on the next pic.
The scribed line at 4 o'clock is the oil feed from the pump. (in)
The scribed line at 6 o'clock is the oil feed to the camshaft. (old)
The line next to it is the newer oil feed to the cam (new)
The arc is the area the gallery in the new web covers.
The lines at 10 and 02 o'clock is where the oil feeds to the rockers, same for both old and new.



Last pic on this subject shows the holes in a newer casing, oil in, connection to the filter cavity (rectangular) and feed to the cam.



And to stay on topic, a pic from the pin in question, fitted and peened over.



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Old 04-11-2012, 02:32 PM   #69
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Paul - is that peened over or is it staked? I can't tell by your picture.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:42 PM   #70
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If the OP is a member of ABC, drop Oak a line. I "think" he suggests tapping that hole and threading in an allen bolt with Locktite. I don't remember the size or the exact method. It should be in the ABC news letter from the last several months. Anyway, the advantages are you can remove it later, it won't fall out and your bearing will be securely in place.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:04 PM   #71
PaulRS
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Originally Posted by jackd View Post
Paul - is that peened over or is it staked? I can't tell by your picture.
Plse explain the difference.
I know peened over, but staked I don't know the Dutch translation.

As far as I can see from this, the hole isn't running the length of the part, but a little off-set.
The pin is inserted from the bearing side and locked by a square pushed in.

This better?



Here you can see 1/2-2/3 of the pin off-set through the hole and the square pressing.

Paul.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:18 PM   #72
supershaft
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Originally Posted by DiabloADV View Post
Will do. Many thanks. What is the best (safest) way to pull the pin in the front bearing?
I knock it out with a punch.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:20 PM   #73
disston
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Method of retaining pin I think is an issue and what brought us this far so far. I like the idea of a threaded bolt.

As far as interchangeability of the two style webs, it looks like the oil will not be an issue. I'm not sure I have that right, but is that what the examples tell?

However the timing chain tensioner was mentioned. The old style fits a double row chain and the new style fits a single row chain. So at first glance I think they are not interchangeable with out a few, maybe more, changes. Unless those chain tensioners will work on either chain?
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:23 PM   #74
supershaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRS View Post
Plse explain the difference.
I know peened over, but staked I don't know the Dutch translation.

As far as I can see from this, the hole isn't running the length of the part, but a little off-set.
The pin is inserted from the bearing side and locked by a square pushed in.

This better?



Here you can see 1/2-2/3 of the pin off-set through the hole and the square pressing.

Paul.
I wish you had comparative photos of the peen bosses too. The later ones are a lot beefier in that area too. I am pretty sure you can crack the web while peening in the pin. I have seen a couple cracked right there although I am not sure that I didn't crack one of them myself.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:40 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I knock it out with a punch.
And the new pin goes in a new hole, drilled at a new spot? The shop manual isn't clear on this.
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1970 R60/5

'91 Bill Holland Steel w/Dura Ace
'01 Z3 3.0 Coupe. The Clownshoe.
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