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Old 04-07-2012, 02:31 PM   #31
btcn OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
Most put that down to High Price.
Why I did not buy one was because luggage storage was going to be (unlike with scooters) extra cost panniers & topbox, and there was no weather protection at all (unlike with scooters).

Like the Gilera GP800 and the Aprilia SRV850?



Aprilia SRV850 Confirmed for US


Aprillia mana 850 engine (displacement of 839.3 cc) which the SRV850 will also use


2012 Aprilia SRV 850
Now thats getting warmer! Wow, its confirmed for the US? Wasn't aware of that! Nice! But I know it'll be way expansive.

Man, I done looked at them there ridely auto motorcycles. And they's SWEET!

Says they only run 3,600 RPM at 85 MPH! Thats super low for a 750 cc!
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
Now thats getting warmer! Wow, its confirmed for the US? Wasn't aware of that! Nice! But I know it'll be way expansive.

Man, I done looked at them there ridely auto motorcycles. And they's SWEET!

Says they only run 3,600 RPM at 85 MPH! Thats super low for a 750 cc!
Did some looking around on the web and that "3,600 RPM at 85 MPH" statement may just be because a modified industrial engine may not be capable of revving any higher.

2 Wheel Ventures acquires assets from Ridley Motorcycle Company (Feb26 2010)

Quote:
“We have documents here, that list EVERY SINGLE VENDOR they had.. So we are now buying 60-70% of the parts from them. Many of these so called “GENUINE RIDLEY PARTS” came out of Drag Specialties.. So a good chunk of it were parts easy to find.. All Ridley did was change the part # and re-name it “Ridley”.”(Art Welch)
From another site I read:
Quote:
The Ridley uses an industrial V-Twin (Briggs & Stratton?) which are 20HP
in standard configuration.

Briggs and Stratton Vanguard Engine


Quote:
The Vanguard engine is a 90 degree overhead valve V-twin available in models from 16hp to 23hp. It has a spin on oil filter and replaceable valve guides and seals.
This engine is used in many different racing classes like 600 racing, Legends racing, Bandolero racing, European winged racing karts and more.
One of the best features of a V-twin is the way it sounds. With the right exhaust headers it gets that deep rumble
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
Did some looking around on the web and that "3,600 RPM at 85 MPH" statement may just be because a modified industrial engine may not be capable of revving any higher.

2 Wheel Ventures acquires assets from Ridley Motorcycle Company (Feb26 2010)

From another site I read:

Briggs and Stratton Vanguard Engine

WTF? They use a brigs engine in them? I thought that engine looked suspiciously like one from the right side.

I do believe your right. It probably ain't capable of revving no higher. Those engines like very low RPMs, almost like a diesel.

That engine is essintially a riding lawnmower engine. Only 20 HP? Thats not much at all. Ridely surly modified it, but it still probably quite underpowered. Although with the CVT it seems to work fine as far as power.

I'm actually suprised that thing will do 85 MPH. I further read that seems to be the maximum speed of these

Further researching I discovered in stock form, the Ridely's run from about 25HP-33 HP, some a little more. Thats not much at all for a cruiser. But I reckon enough. [Although some models can get 40 HP].

I think they should have designed there own engine though. Or, maybe worked with Harley use like a modified for CVT 883 Sportty engine, that'd be neat. Something like that.

Perhaps with that engine they should have been MUCH cheaper. Those engines can be had for around $1K from smallengineswarehouse. Add $1K to make it work well for the bike/mods. Then the CVT and bike. Should have sold for more like $6K. $20K or so no way would many buy them, just get a Sportster for 1/2 that and deal with shifting.

Although I do imagine that engine worked well with a CVT, since that hi geared CVT can keep the RPMs nice and steady, which these workhorse industrial engines like. Just to much $ IMO. And they kinda got labeled as a chick bike. The hardcore H-D guys most of em that tested em love em. But that image of a chick bike probably interfiered.

Its ridiclous how bikes easily get labeled as chick bikes. Seriously. Some idiots call the Sportster a chick bike! How do you explain all the hardcore 1%ers riding them for years, and many still do? IMO it don't get much more macho than a 74 Ironhead Sportster complete with a flame paintjob, chopped, apes, and straight pipes.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:40 AM   #34
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Want to get some idea of what a Automatic V-Twin motorcycle should be capable of, regarding Top Speed and Engine H.P.? Lets go back Thirty-Six years and remember times have moved on. This one is air-cooled, has a pair of 36mm Dell'Orto VHB Carburetors, does the standing quarter mile in 15.9 sec.

The 2-Speed Auto Tranny is not that efficient, and makes heavy use of its Torque Converter :




Moto Guzzi V-1000 I-Convert with 2-speed automatic gearbox.

Displacement:948.00 ccm (57.85 cubic inches)
Engine type:V2, four-stroke
Power:61.00 HP (44.5 kW)) @ 6500 RPM
Top speed:168.0 km/h (104.4 mph)
Compression:9.2:1
Bore x stroke:88.0 x 78.0 mm (3.5 x 3.1 inches)
Valves per cylinder:2
Fuel control:OHV
Cooling system:Air
Gearbox:2-speed automatic
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
Want to get some idea of what a Automatic V-Twin motorcycle should be capable of, regarding Top Speed and Engine H.P.? Lets go back Thirty-Six years and remember times have moved on. This one is air-cooled, has a pair of 36mm Dell'Orto VHB Carburetors, does the standing quarter mile in 15.9 sec.

The 2-Speed Auto Tranny is not that efficient, and makes heavy use of its Torque Converter :




Moto Guzzi V-1000 I-Convert with 2-speed automatic gearbox.

Displacement:948.00 ccm (57.85 cubic inches)
Engine type:V2, four-stroke
Power:61.00 HP (44.5 kW)) @ 6500 RPM
Top speed:168.0 km/h (104.4 mph)
Compression:9.2:1
Bore x stroke:88.0 x 78.0 mm (3.5 x 3.1 inches)
Valves per cylinder:2
Fuel control:OHV
Cooling system:Air
Gearbox:2-speed automatic

That is actually quite similar to my 78 Honda CB400 Automatic. It has a 2 speed with a torque converter just like that. It's performance is definitly not impressive. I have not actually ridden it out of the neighborhood so far on account I's rebuilding the carbs and #1 is leaking. But, from around the block, it has reasonable power in 1st. It's slow for a 400 cc, but adequet. I got it up to abut 35-40 MPH so far. I believe it'll pull about 75-90 MPH.

Its neat though. The torque converter does somewhat compensate for the lack of gears [multiplies the torque], and on some eventually locks up to a 1:1 at speed. But, not as efficient as a CVT. But seems to keep the RPMs steadier. CVT definitly way more power. But, IMO the torque converter is actually quite smoother than a CVT, espically off the line.

I believe if runs 1/4s very slow between 15 and 19 or something like that.

But, back when the speed limit is 55 MPH, it was a great bike. It'll cruise along at 60 MPH all day long. It gets there plenty fast to keep up with traffic. Uses a slightly detuned verson of the regular manual shift CB400 Hawk engine I believe. Its tuned for more steady RPMs, not for revving to the moon and taking off. But, this engine is ultra reliable and simple. Its a classic looking Honda Twin. The bike looks great and classic.

Heres a pic of mine:

[IMG]Photobucket[/IMG]

[IMG]Photobucket[/IMG]

[IMG]Photobucket[/IMG]


Also, there is a 750 cc verson, the CB750A. That was a hell of a bike. A bit more popular than the 400. It had an inline 4 750 cc, and took off great. It was a dog compared to a normal 750 inline 4 of course, but it had pleanty of power.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #36
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That's fascinating. Wonder why the automatic cycle never took off? Especially since they look just like any other; save your pride, protect your manhood, but cruise without the hassle of counting gears.

You say Honda had "torque converters"? Were they much bigger than the CVTs and centrifugal clutches used in Honda's scooters? How did those automatics measure up on performance, against today's scoots?
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
That's fascinating. Wonder why the automatic cycle never took off? Especially since they look just like any other; save your pride, protect your manhood, but cruise without the hassle of counting gears.
Honda is giving another stab at it. Search for the new Honda NC700X adventure bike. You can get it with an auto, and the gas tank has been moved and is now storage for a helmet. And with a very reasonable price, I have to admit, I'm tempted.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
That's fascinating. Wonder why the automatic cycle never took off? Especially since they look just like any other; save your pride, protect your manhood, but cruise without the hassle of counting gears.

You say Honda had "torque converters"? Were they much bigger than the CVTs and centrifugal clutches used in Honda's scooters? How did those automatics measure up on performance, against today's scoots?

It is neat! I'm wander the same thing, why it didn't take off? I agree with you 100% there, with it looking just like any regular motorcycle [espically since it DOES have a gear shifter NOBODY that don't ride it or know them won't think its auto], so you'll look just as cool as any other biker on a Honda, yet enjoy the effortless auto. Seriously, its neat espically if you live in a huge city. If I lived in a big city I'd never have manual bike unless I use it for just longer trips.


Yes, these did have torque converters, similar to those used in modern automatic transmissions in cars. I'd say they's a slightly wider than a regular clutch, but without all the gears not to wide. Its wider than a CVT but much shorter.

Against a CVT, I'd say these are far slower. Even though to some degree the torque converter does multiply torque, it really only works well with a bigger engine. Say with a Big V-Twin with lots of torque, it'd be ideal. However, with a small engine, it has limited power. This only has 2 ratios, 1 hi 1 low. Low is used up to about 40-50 MPH or so, then hi. Hi CAN be used for lesurly acceleration off the line if desired.

But, against a CVT, these ain't got the power. Now old cars with big engines often only had 2 or 3 ratios [think 70s Ford Trucks with 390/490 CI] for example, autos usually had just 3 gears. Even with that they can still smoke many modern trucks with 5/6 Speeds. You'd stay in 1st gear for a LONG time. The engine sorta stayed near it's peak power if you floor it, similar to a CVT. The 1st 2 was normal and then 3rd for highway low RPM cruising/OD. It could pull this off due to a big engine with loads of torque. These trucks often also got better MPG than comparatively smaller trucks, partly due to this, partle to 2 barrel carbs vs EFI.

Now give a 2 speed or 3 speed on a 4 banger economy car, and it'd be nothing more than gutless obviously. It don't have the torque.

Overall, it is hard to compare the 400/750 Manual vs. automatic streetbikes in someways, as for some reason, I believe Honda slightly detuned the engines for the auto models. Although this was likely to get more low end grunt for the trannys.

But as far as I know. The torque converters were comparatively slow. But they return VERY smooth power. Off the line my CB is smoother than my Elite's CVT by lots. And pleanty of performance for everybody accept long distance touring on the open road, and mr adreninline junkie. But, honestly most commuters would be pleanty satisfied on these 400s.


It does appear Honda's fixin to make some new autos. But they are often now overly complicated. We'll see how this new 700 is.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:46 PM   #39
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I don't know Honda's reasoning for their automatic models (easy bikes for civilian Americans?) but Moto Guzzi's were all to do with crafting motorcycles that might better attract US Police purchase contracts. Moto Guzzi had been the FIRST foreign motorcycle manufacturer to win bids to supply US Police departments:

THE GOOSE PATROLã

Quote:
Over the years Harley had been the mainstay for police bikes around the country to such a degree that most police agencies had developed specifications for purchasing police motorcycles that were literally Harley specifications.
Several other companies tried to enter the market in the early 60’s, but failed to overcome the Harley advantage. Foreign makes such as Triumph, BSA, BMW and Honda all made bids for the job, but failed to meet the requirements of the LAPD. In addition, a law still existed on the books in California that prohibited agencies from buying foreign made vehicles for government use. Other reasons for their failure were, they were “too small” or “under powered” or they just didn’t “look” like police bikes.

In 1967 Moto Guzzi motorcycle distributors for the USA market approached LAPD with a proposal. They would build a police unit to the specific designs of the department!
Quote:
There were many obstacles to overcome. First, there was no current motorcycle produced by Moto Guzzi that even came close to what was needed. So, they made one from the ground up!
Quote:
After several weeks of design and redesign, testing and hassles between Moto Guzzi executives, the final product came forth
In the summer of 1969, ten LAPD motor officers were called to a meeting attended by police management and representatives from the motorcycle company. . . .

Most of us were excited and pleased to get off the, shall I say, less agile, Harley-Davidson. Some of the old-time officers mis-pronounced the name as “Moto Goosey” and the bike soon was nicknamed “The Goose”.It handled beautifully, had more ground clearance than the Harley and a drive shaft.

. . . .

The “Goose Patrol” gave the new bikes rave notices and the city bought a large number of the Moto Guzzi “Police Special”, a model that later appeared on the public market as the Eldorado.
The Gooses rewrote the book for police motorcycles and made it possible for Kawasaki, BMW and Honda (for a while) to get into the police market.



Notice that bottom line on the scanned page from Gary Smith's book? While the I-Convert's time for the Quarter Mile may seem somewhat lethargic, the criteria for Police Motorcycles "were literally Harley specifications".





1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado V7 850 Police Special


featured in the 1973 Clint Eastward - David Soul 'Dirty Harry' movie "Magnum Force". Stunt riders in the movie rode versions which lacked windscreens for action shots.

(Weird thing in movie, final sequence chase scenes in dockyard and on mothballed carriers featured stunt riders & actors on the 150lb lighter Triumph T120 Bonneville!)




"Where's my shaft? Help - someone's stole my shaftdrive - call the police!"

Without police equipment, this was marketed to the civilian US motorcyclists as the Eldorardo

So what's that got to do with the 2-Speed Auto (Moto Guzzi V1000 I-Convert)? Read about that subject here.
Quote:
The designers at Moto Guzzi were aiming the V1000 Convert at the US police motorcycle market and were the first to produce a big capacity automatic motorcycle with shaft drive. Moto Guzzi increased the pushrod-operated V-twin's bore and stroke to give a displacement of 949 cc (57.9 cu in), and replaced manual gearbox with a torque converter built by Sachs, and two-speed gearbox.

The clutch had to be used to shift between two speeds but the torque converter enabled the bike to stop in either gear and accelerate smoothly without using the clutch.
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vortexau screwed with this post 04-11-2012 at 06:56 PM Reason: corected model mane for movie reference
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexau View Post
I don't know Honda's reasoning for their automatic models (easy bikes for civilian Americans?) but Moto Guzzi's were all to do with crafting motorcycles that might better attract US Police purchase contracts. Moto Guzzi had been the FIRST foreign motorcycle manufacturer to win bids to supply US Police departments:

THE GOOSE PATROLã



Notice that bottom line on the scanned page from Gary Smith's book? While the I-Convert's time for the Quarter Mile may seem somewhat lethargic, the criteria for Police Motorcycles "were literally Harley specifications".





1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado V7 850 Police Special


featured in the 1973 Clint Eastward - David Soul 'Dirty Harry' movie "Magnum Force". Stunt riders in the movie rode versions which lacked windscreens for action shots.

(Weird thing in movie, final sequence chase scenes in dockyard and on mothballed carriers featured stunt riders & actors on the 150lb lighter Triumph T120 Bonneville!)




"Where's my shaft? Help - someone's stole my shaftdrive - call the police!"

Without police equipment, this was marketed to the civilian US motorcyclists as the Eldorardo

So what's that got to do with the 2-Speed Auto (Moto Guzzi V1000 I-Convert)? Read about that subject here.

Thats pretty neat! Man, if I was a bike cop, I'd definitly love an automatic! If I was a bike cop in a city, I'd hate the job without the automatic now nowing theres such thing! Thanks for sharing this info!
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:09 AM   #41
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Roll your own. Aussie style.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:21 PM   #42
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Those look rather CT90-110 "Postie Bike" types. Did you find one fitted with a V-Twin motor?





Moto Morini made V-Twins right down to 125cc capacity.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:26 PM   #43
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Those look rather CT90-110 "Postie Bike" types. Did you find one fitted with a V-Twin motor?





Moto Morini made V-Twins right down to 125cc capacity.
That theres a funky looking V-Twin!

Actually, Honda made 125 cc V-Twins as well. Just ain't availible here in America! Cause of course here bigger=better, right?

There was a Honda Shadow 125. It sounds about as cool as most H-Ds, looks sweet, and would top about 75-80 MPH actual speed! Returns about 80 MPG with it's 6 speed. What a neat little bike! I'd buy one if they was here!

Then Suzuki also made a intruder 125 V-Twin. Similar to the Shadow 125 with Suzuki's styling of course. I think Yamaha too, they has the cool little Virago/V-Star 250 though. That is a great little bike! I'd not mind me a V-Star 250! They honestly sound better than a lot of Harleys! Seriously. Y'all don't believe me, youtube it!

While a bit irrevalent, they are quite neat. I'd like a little 125 Cruiser just cool.


I don't never think we's gonna see what I has in mind for them V-Twin Scooter with a Harley styled.

But I do like that there Gilrea 800 or whatever. It is V-Twin. But its not much a cruiser. But its nice. Just too damn expansive.

I wish I had skills! I'd make an awesome scooter with a V-Twin. Probably couldn't sell it. As it seems to me the scooter type riders generally ain't into big twins. Not all, like me I ride both. And some, but I see why we don't get em much cause most don't want that kinda thing.
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:56 AM   #44
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Vetter's H-D powered Scooter. The Torpedo
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:19 PM   #45
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For anyone who fancies building their own air-cooled V-Twin powered motor scooter, here's a place to source for the engine-

Renegade Motors- Case To Ride

Apparently one can buy from a plain (Renegade V-Twin) Crank Case, all the way up to a complete working engine with one's desired state-of-tune. Sizes range from "96 cubic inch or the 124 cubic inch and even the 147 cubic inch".


Crankcase (alone)


Engine.

Quote:
Some benefits and Technical Data:
  • Our Hemi head design is stae of the art and CNC machine ported and flowed for maximum performance.
  • Gear driven dual cam design with half the moving parts of other twin cams.
  • Nikasil cylinders offer increased ring seal and reduce operation temperature.
  • Proprietary crankcase oil evacuation, NO breather gear.
  • Fully CNC machined ports and Custom chamber.
  • Roller tipped rocker arms with fully adjustable push rods.
  • Unique ‘C’ shaped rocker box for improved airflow.
  • Massive cylinder head fin design for maximum cooling.
(note- It can cost MORE to build a complete DIY two-wheeler rather than buy a model built on the production line. Remember the lesson that Henry Ford taught: Lesson of the Assembly Line. )
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