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Old 04-04-2012, 10:46 PM   #16
Hicks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
Let me ask the OP again. Hicks, are you a stock holder? How can that device do anything I can't do? How does the oiler put oil on every inch of your chain while riding down the road? The oiler may work but I don't understand what it does that I can't. Does it use majic oil? How much does the majic oil cost? I guess if a person is too sorry to lubricate his chain it might be worth something to him. GH
Jesus, why should I be a stock holder? I'm wannabe stockholder at max

I dont understand why you dont understand, that oiling every 50-60 seconds is something you can do by yourself?

The oiler puts oil on the every inch, at least according to my observation.

And yes.. the oil is much different.. because it's not oil+glue as in spray, but only an oil which lubricates the chain and then departs with dirt.

---

the price here is about 15USD per 0,5L or so? 0,5 is for maybe 20 000 km.

The oil is cheaper... but not the device.. so I think it saves $$$ when you ride a lot.

--

ad. chain lubing: I ride ~130-200 km DAILY... combined with rain, it's quite a lot of chain care... especially when you have better things to do and/or when you're late etc.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:04 PM   #17
Hicks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Let's see your cost comparison here since you're desperately trying to sell more of these oilers.
nah I'm not. The only thing I'm saying that it deserves people attention, because it is ubercool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
I want to see a control-based study where you prove that the cost of purchasing and maintaining the Oiler saves a person money in the long run by making the chain last longer over a period of time (or distance). If your list of chains (or whatever study you're basing this off of) there doesn't prove how many more miles a person would get by using the oiler (and thus proves that the oiler maintained chain has a higher mileage to cost ratio) then your reasons and argument is basically null/void.

Either prove the benefit or admit that your statements are all conjecture and opinion based on nothing other than preference and product lust.
You've mixed several issues into one.

a) I'm not going to convince you in any way... have better things to do than watering a dried tree stub :)
b) Google for yourself.. there are many stories how it radically prolonges the chain life
c) I've never had financial motive with Scottoiler.. so in general... I dont care much about savings


Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Well, you've just proven you're good at assumptions and not paying attention to what other people say. I never said that chains don't need lubrication, I said that slathering oil all over them via the ScottOiler is unnecessary and dirty.
again.. you dont know much what are you talking about. The scottoiler injects oil on the side of the procket, then it is pushed with centrifugal force +- just between the inner plate and the roller


And also.. the Scottoil also HAVE A CLEANING role. It doesnt stay dirty all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Besides, if you ever go offroad you're looking at a chain covered in filth, grime, sand, dirt and everything else that sticks to oil; thus making the equivalent of semi-liquid sandpaper all rotating and wearing your chain down.
I've repeated several times that I don't believe much about Scottoiler use for a pure and hard offroad.

They offer a double injection though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
If you don't ever ride offroad with your F8/F658 then I feel sorry for you and I wonder why you bothered buying one of these bikes.
You're not much a open-minded guy, right? Who says that 800GS has to be ridden offroad? It's AN UNIVERSAL bike for the first.

Look... clever guy ;) ... if I'd be serious about offroad.. I'd stick with 990. So I can argument in a similar way -- why do you changed half of your bike? It's designed for offroad, isnt it?

The argument, that anyone has to use the 800GS in the same way as you is.. really.. incredibly stupid. Especially for me.. I bet I spent on the bike much more time, than you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Why did you start this thread anyway - do you really care if other people go out and buy the product or are you just trying to start *another* useless thread where opinions about irrelevant topics are hashed out over and over and over again? Was there any real benefit for other forum members you were aiming at here, because I don't see the point of your post unless you have a vested interest in seeing other people buy the ScottOiler.
I think there are a lot of other stuff you really dont understand as well... so :P
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
nah I'm not. The only thing I'm saying that it deserves people attention, because it is ubercool.



You've mixed several issues into one.

a) I'm not going to convince you in any way... have better things to do than watering a dried tree stub :)
b) Google for yourself.. there are many stories how it radically prolonges the chain life
c) I've never had financial motive with Scottoiler.. so in general... I dont care much about savings




again.. you dont know much what are you talking about. The scottoiler injects oil on the side of the procket, then it is pushed with centrifugal force +- just between the inner plate and the roller


And also.. the Scottoil also HAVE A CLEANING role. It doesnt stay dirty all the time.



I've repeated several times that I don't believe much about Scottoiler use for a pure and hard offroad.

They offer a double injection though...



You're not much a open-minded guy, right? Who says that 800GS has to be ridden offroad? It's AN UNIVERSAL bike for the first.

Look... clever guy ;) ... if I'd be serious about offroad.. I'd stick with 990. So I can argument in a similar way -- why do you changed half of your bike? It's designed for offroad, isnt it?

The argument, that anyone has to use the 800GS in the same way as you is.. really.. incredibly stupid. Especially for me.. I bet I spent on the bike much more time, than you.



I think there are a lot of other stuff you really dont understand as well... so :P
Oh boy, an internet pissing match! Fun!

Sure, call me close minded but if I wanted a bike just for the road I wouldn't buy one that was designed for dual sport use. Of all the bikes I've owned the F800GS, aside from my dirtbikes, is the worst choice for 100% road use. I only have it because the 690 sucks for highway use to get to the places I need to ride. You're probably the kind of guy, and they are SO common, that buy an SUV to drive to the grocery store and never take it offroad yet you need those tough looking Mud/AT tires right?

I'm a pragmatist, I choose the right tool for the job and the F800GS is not, by engineering principles, the right tool for 100% road use. There are better motos, and if you like the F800 platform then you could have gone with the F800R or F800ST.

If you want to argue, like a lot of people do, that you can do whatever you want with your bike then you're right and that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying it's a poor choice because there are better options, but do whatever you want -- I really don't care. I do like to argue on the internet though, you can ask other people on this forum, so we can keep this going as long as you want.

What I don't like is the scott oiler. No amount of fancy graphics from their site will convince me (or a lot of people) that there is any benefit that a can of chain lube will not solve. Unless you can prove via controlled study, either your own or from the manufacturer, that there is a concrete cost benefit to owning this product then you have no platform to stand on and you should consider getting off the soapbox as you're using circular logic at this point.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:38 AM   #19
Hicks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Oh boy, an internet pissing match! Fun!

Sure, call me close minded but if I wanted a bike just for the road I wouldn't buy one that was designed for dual sport use. Of all the bikes I've owned the F800GS, aside from my dirtbikes, is the worst choice for 100% road use. I only have it because the 690 sucks for highway use to get to the places I need to ride. You're probably the kind of guy, and they are SO common, that buy an SUV to drive to the grocery store and never take it offroad yet you need those tough looking Mud/AT tires right?
I'm much worse :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
I'm a pragmatist, I choose the right tool for the job and the F800GS is not, by engineering principles, the right tool for 100% road use. There are better motos, and if you like the F800 platform then you could have gone with the F800R or F800ST.
that's a nonsense. The only real and reasonable alternative for me is 12GS, which design I didnt like.

The only version of 12GS I really want, is 30years GS (that on the black rims etc).

I simply didnt like the design of any 2008 12GS.

---

that was for the first.

For the second -- you really dont know what you're talking about? Have you even ridden an european 3rd grade road? It's paved, but with incredible holes, sometimes gravel... something like a MX grade surface. For example for a large parts of eastern Slovakia or Bosnia.. thats a norm. >200mm fork travel VERY usable.

Also, I commute daily through a really nice small roads to the Prague...

R or ST is ABSOLUTELY not for me. Have you ever sit on one? It's much mor prone to a damage when it falls etc.. many disadvantages.

The only way how I leave for a longer trips ALWAYS with a PASSENGER, OVERLOADED with panniers, tankbag, bags ON the PANNIERS... the R or ST is really not for me:




Cafe Eustacchio Rome :)

So I really dont know where you got your confidence to judge HOW I use the 800GS.

Your argument of dual-purpose is a bit weird.. with its default suspension.. who said that BMW expected the 800GS to be used in a harsh offroad?


Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
If you want to argue, like a lot of people do, that you can do whatever you want with your bike then you're right and that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying it's a poor choice because there are better options, but do whatever you want -- I really don't care. I do like to argue on the internet though, you can ask other people on this forum, so we can keep this going as long as you want.
which better options exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
What I don't like is the scott oiler. No amount of fancy graphics from their site will convince me (or a lot of people) that there is any benefit that a can of chain lube will not solve. Unless you can prove via controlled study, either your own or from the manufacturer, that there is a concrete cost benefit to owning this product then you have no platform to stand on and you should consider getting off the soapbox as you're using circular logic at this point.
that "provide stamped study" forum tactic is well known.. and as I said... I'm trustful and honest enough to take my experience with Scottoiler seriously
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:43 AM   #20
Hicks OP
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and also another KEY advantage of 800GS.

it doesnt change the handling characteristics under high load (I mean rider + passenger + panniers + tankbag + bags + canisters).

But maybe.. you like it like that especially for a passenger -- your recommended 800R would be real delight... across the europe on the street bike.

Great advice, really...

edit:
useful payload 800GS: 236 kg
800R: 206kg
800ST: 196kg

really great advice... on every trip we're well over 200kg payload.

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Hicks screwed with this post 04-05-2012 at 10:58 AM
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:18 PM   #21
GH41
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We love you Hicks but you need to lay off of the cool aid. GH
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:51 PM   #22
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Costs about $5. Bottle good for about 6000 miles of mixed use. Takes :15 to apply.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:06 PM   #23
GH41
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Costs about $5. Bottle good for about 6000 miles of mixed use. Takes :15 to apply.
How could that lube possibly work without an over priced automatic oiler? Using that oil will shorten the life of your chain and possibly cause bodily injury. Your bikes performance will also suffer! The only way to reduce the damge is to stop and lube the chain every 15 minutes. If you remove the front sprocket cover and place the lube on the sprocket it will spread the oil through centrifical force to all of the chain links. Any other method of application will make your penis fall off! GH
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:27 PM   #24
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I forgot you girls. There is no telling what will happen to your thing if you don't use the oiler!! OOPS! That don't sound right. GH
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
and also another KEY advantage of 800GS.

it doesnt change the handling characteristics under high load (I mean rider + passenger + panniers + tankbag + bags + canisters).

But maybe.. you like it like that especially for a passenger -- your recommended 800R would be real delight... across the europe on the street bike.

Great advice, really...

edit:
useful payload 800GS: 236 kg
800R: 206kg
800ST: 196kg

really great advice... on every trip we're well over 200kg payload.


Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that some people aren't minimalists and are also overweight and need to have every creature comfort on their trips. How much does the beer cooler and lazy boy that you carry around weigh?

This thread is great entertainment. I'm really sure you're winning over potential customers with your quality evangelism here.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:15 AM   #26
Hicks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
How could that lube possibly work without an over priced automatic oiler? Using that oil will shorten the life of your chain and possibly cause bodily injury. Your bikes performance will also suffer! The only way to reduce the damge is to stop and lube the chain every 15 minutes. If you remove the front sprocket cover and place the lube on the sprocket it will spread the oil through centrifical force to all of the chain links. Any other method of application will make your penis fall off! GH
of course....

the only difference is, that when your tiny american peepee falls off... chicks hardly notice... :)
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:18 AM   #27
Hicks OP
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Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that some people aren't minimalists and are also overweight and need to have every creature comfort on their trips. How much does the beer cooler and lazy boy that you carry around weigh?

This thread is great entertainment. I'm really sure you're winning over potential customers with your quality evangelism here.
there is a difference between your homotrips, where everyone has it's own bike... and traveling with girls ;)

I do also expect that you can't even unpack the tent, so the hotel is your solution, right?

not to even talk about cold and below-freezing temperatures.. :P

---

Hix tenting in Andorra, below 0 temp:
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Hicks screwed with this post 04-06-2012 at 12:29 AM
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:21 AM   #28
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Costs about $5. Bottle good for about 6000 miles of mixed use. Takes :15 to apply.
looks good.. but it washes away quickly in wet I suppose...
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:02 AM   #29
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Just wondering; As you consider yourself the "oiler-specialist", why did you go for the Scott-oiler and not for a proper one?
Scott-oilers only supply oil as a function of the engine-RPM (supply of oil is the same at i.e. 3000 rpm at stand-still and 3000 rpm in 6th gear).
Wouldn't it be better to have oil supply as a function of chain-movement like other oilers do? i.e. the faster the chain moves, the more oil will be supplied.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:13 AM   #30
Hicks OP
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Originally Posted by DesertStrom View Post
Just wondering; As you consider yourself the "oiler-specialist", why did you go for the Scott-oiler and not for a proper one?
Scott-oilers only supply oil as a function of the engine-RPM (supply of oil is the same at i.e. 3000 rpm at stand-still and 3000 rpm in 6th gear).
Wouldn't it be better to have oil supply as a function of chain-movement like other oilers do? i.e. the faster the chain moves, the more oil will be supplied.
I dont have a vacuum-type Scottoiler, but the eSystem.

Oiling tied to a chain speed is not a bad idea, but could be quite complicated. You've another variables -- the amount of dust and especially.. the water.

With eSystem you can easily alter the flow rate according the conditions:



I ride normally with 50 secs/drop.. in rain 20-30 s/dp.

also.. it does have a movement detector -- so it doesnt oil when you're standing... in reality it starts above 20-50km/h
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Hicks screwed with this post 04-06-2012 at 03:19 AM
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