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Old 05-07-2012, 05:39 AM   #346
Wildman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post
This debate about ATGATT again, just rephrased. "Is it over-rated? Do I really need it?" and so on and so forth. Here's my take on it, a re-post of one I made over in Hacks:

The question is always the same: Do I really need it?

The answer is very simple. No. You don't need it.....UNTIL you need it.

Whether you ride a motorcycle, hack, or scooter, when you hit the ground and your uprotected skin faces off against the asphalt, the coefficient of friction between unprotected skin and asphalt remains the same.

The asphalt wins. Everytime.

I respect that it is a personal decision for each rider. I get that, really. Nobody likes to be told what to do or how to do it. For alot of folks, this discussion really raises the old hackles and the debate begins. Alot of emotional responses follow.

But in the end, it comes down to choices. Ride your own ride, make your own choices.

But, each rider should also be prepared to accept responsibility for their own actions, and face the consequences of those decisions.

For me, it sort of comes down to the old "For want of a nail..." scenario. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

A big part of my world in aviation is risk management. We know and accept there are inherent risks in what we do. We take the proper steps to reduce and hopefully eliminate those risks. I approach riding the same way.

But we know the risk is always there. The most effective tool we have is situational awareness, and not becoming complacent.

Complacency kills more effectively than even the most clueless, texting idiot in a car.

We also make sure we have the proper gear, because that gear might help give us the edge we need to survive if and when things go all pear-shaped.

In the end, we make our choices and take our chances.

Whatever I ride or may ride, I choose to do what I can to lessen the risks. Others choose differently.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:13 AM   #347
Rick G
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My $0.02 worth....

Based on my experience when I had a run in with a deer last year is that ATGATT saved my life! I am positive I would have died if I was wearing only a 1/2 helmet, t-shirt and jeans when that deer jumped on my back as I was riding past at 50+mph. Fortunately I was ATGATT at the time and survived with only some broken bones. So is ATGATT, over rated? No, not when you need it!

Now, do I ride ATGATT everytime I jump on one of my bikes? When I ride my GS or Bonnie I am ATGATT close to 100% of the time. But to be honest, when I get on my scooter I do cheat. Open faced helmet and gloves always but I can be found with shorts and a t-shirt buzzing around my neighborhood. If I am running errands that take me out of my neighborhood, then I will put on a riding jacket and kevlar jeans. I figure in my neighborhood, I am not in any more danger than I would be if I were on a bicycle so I dress accordingly for my short (less than a mile) trips.

YMMV

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:34 PM   #348
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I started riding at age 12 on a cushman scooter, my mentor was a middle 20's guy who rode an ariel square 4, he told me that at a minimum I should wear a helmet, gloves, boots and jacket. This was 1962 and that was a 1/2 face helmet, black leather jacket, engineer boots and leather gloves. I admit to times not wearing any of the above. I have since ridden about every bike you can imagine, dirt, dirt track, touring, commuting, snow, no car for years etc. I usually managed to wear at least the above. My worst crash was 2 miles from home riding to have a cup of coffee with a friend. A youngster in a cage came around a corner going very fast in my lane. I was probably doing about 40-45 mph going into the turn. Probably a little faster than I should have been going. Split second decision, head on or go off the black top unmarked two lane farm road into the ditch, I chose the ditch. I was ATGATT for me, full face helmet, mesh jacket with armor in the elbows, forearms, guantlet armored gloves, SIDI adventure boots, mesh armored pants. I put this on as I now always do, or I would have taken the cage. I walked away, but was sore and bruised at work the next day. Totalled the bike. For me ATGATT is the rule, rarely broken. What you want to wear is up to you. Ride safe, Ride hard.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:35 PM   #349
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It used to really bother me to see people riding without proper gear, since here in Canada healthcare is government funded so in some tiny way, they're choices cost me money. Then it occurred to me that the cagers probably look at me the same way as I look at riders without proper gear, and they aren't wrong either. And what about other activities, surfing, skydiving, hang gliding? Everything we do contains an element of risk, and we each have to decide how we want to mitigate that risk. I never ride without proper boots, gloves or helmet. Never ride in shorts. I've ridden without my armoured jacket a handful of times, but don't make a habit of it. Could I be safer? Sure. I could get a full leather racing suit. For the time being, I choose not too. Ultimately, if peoples' choices end up costing me a couple cents a year in extra taxes, I'll live with that in exchange for having the freedom of making those choices for myself.

I've been riding for twenty or so years in some form or another. For what it's worth, the worst injury I've sustained to date in my life (and the only one requiring orthopedic surgery) resulted from taking public transit. Go figure.
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Garak screwed with this post 05-10-2012 at 03:35 PM Reason: closing parenthesis
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:10 PM   #350
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Who knows what fate has in store for any of us. I've read on here of the guy who was pushing a bike around at a dealership and tipped over, hit his head, and died. Wasn't wearing a helmet. Should he have been ATGATT? Then I think of the time when I was a kid blasting across a field on a 125cc in a T-shirt and shorts and me and the whole bike fell into a big hole someone had dug in the high grass. Stopped instantly and I flew off the bike, my knee went through the windscreen, and other than that I was unhurt. No helmet, no gloves, no nothin. I should have been ATGATT, but in the end it wouldn't have made much difference other than me not needing a bandaid on my knee. Will ATGATT protect you better and help to minimize your risk? Yes! Will it guarantee you survive and are safe no matter what dumb stuff you do? No! The most important piece of safety equipment is located between your ears, and hopefully it isn't made of energy absorbing foam rubber.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:23 PM   #351
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This is so cool. A whole thread about me! Woohoo! I'm not worthy.

I didn't read the whole thread but...

1. I don't wear protective gear because I am afraid of dying. I wear it because I am TERRIFIED of skin graft surgery.
2. Chicks dig it when I show up looking like a hi-viz Power Ranger... oh, wait... we need to start a hi-viz thread... does it work or not?
3. Wear whatever you like and I'll do likewise.
4. Did anyone throw in the "you should be a more skilled rider instead of having a false sense of security due to your gear... you suck Power Ranger!" type of comment? If not, we need one.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:28 PM   #352
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I go on several different forums, and there seem to be a lot of new riders preaching about ATGATT. I wear a helmet, full face, boots and gloves, usually a leather jacket and sometimes no gloves and a light jacket. I'm not saying I'm impervious to getting some serious rash, but even the local cops just wear those goober storm trooper boots, and open face helmets, and they ride all day, every day. Short Sleeves, too, and the roided up guys wear shirts with tailored sleeves that show off their Hulkster Power Pythons.

But for those guys that refer to the people that don't wear ATGATT, as squids, well you just don't know who you are riding with. You put those labels on people, and most of the time, it is compensating for your own insecurity, makes you feel superior to the other guys.

Like Egan said, "Ride Your Own Bike".
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:32 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
I go on several different forums, and there seem to be a lot of new riders preaching about ATGATT. I wear a helmet, full face, boots and gloves, usually a leather jacket and sometimes no gloves and a light jacket. I'm not saying I'm impervious to getting some serious rash, but even the local cops just wear those goober storm trooper boots, and open face helmets, and they ride all day, every day. Short Sleeves, too, and the roided up guys wear shirts with tailored sleeves that show off their Hulkster Power Pythons.

But for those guys that refer to the people that don't wear ATGATT, as squids, well you just don't know who you are riding with. You put those labels on people, and most of the time, it is compensating for your own insecurity, makes you feel superior to the other guys.

Like Egan said, "Ride Your Own Bike".

in the uk guy who go with out gear are called newbies.

i wont bother to put gear on if i am going off road. as 2weeks back i just put on a full face helmet and then had jean and a hoody on and some as i was only riding on dirt track / mud and grass. i quite often ride in fields with out a helmet on.

but on the road i will allways have full gear as i dont wont any of my skin to come off or to brake my head if i high side off and bounce down the road. so will never wear any less than a mx helmet or a ff helmet
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:10 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixdoglover View Post
The collective intelligence of a group of boys is proportional to the inverse square of the number of boys in the group.
Hence, one boy has the intelligence of one boy. But 4 boys collectively display the intelligence of 1/4 of a boy. And when you get a bigger group together, like a Cub Scout Pack, there really isn't any measurable intelligence left in the group.
As a former pack mom, yes, this is sadly true. But hilarious to watch.

ATGATT, but more out of habit than anything else. It's a sort of ritual for me. I prepare to meet my bike. Five minutes. No big deal. But it puts my head into riding before I get in the saddle.

I've also had two getoffs. One was a simple 0mph drop while in school, but I'm old enough (started riding at 43) to not be made of rubber any more. The CE armor in my Germany-required jacket meant that I didn't feel a thing from my roll on the pavement. The other was a lowside at a trackday. Destroyed the right leg of a pair of textile pants (replaced), repaired my jacket for light commuting duty as the damage wasn't structural and I moonlight as a tailor. Walked away with an abraded pinky that is still having some bone issues, but the skin has grown back and thickening up every day. Stupid gloves. Interestingly, my (what I thought were unjustifiably expensive) touring boots not only came out of it in good shape, but clearly took some impact and did their job with flying colors. The little metal button on the right ankle was a great slider - not even a bruise on my foot. And the hard back protector meant no damage there. The worst of it was the bruising on the inside of my outside leg from the rear shock. Damn, that was ugly!

So I gear up (helmet, jacket, gloves, pants, boots) because I know it works. I will invest in some nice leather for future track days, too, maybe even a set for touring - my kids are gunning for a pink power ranger-styled suit. To me, it's part of the action of motorcycling. It's as much mental armor as it is body armor.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:29 AM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post

ATGATT, but more out of habit than anything else. It's a sort of ritual for me. I prepare to meet my bike. Five minutes. No big deal. But it puts my head into riding before I get in the saddle.
This
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:36 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
As a former pack mom, yes, this is sadly true. But hilarious to watch.

ATGATT, but more out of habit than anything else. It's a sort of ritual for me. I prepare to meet my bike. Five minutes. No big deal. But it puts my head into riding before I get in the saddle.

I've also had two getoffs. One was a simple 0mph drop while in school, but I'm old enough (started riding at 43) to not be made of rubber any more. The CE armor in my Germany-required jacket meant that I didn't feel a thing from my roll on the pavement. The other was a lowside at a trackday. Destroyed the right leg of a pair of textile pants (replaced), repaired my jacket for light commuting duty as the damage wasn't structural and I moonlight as a tailor. Walked away with an abraded pinky that is still having some bone issues, but the skin has grown back and thickening up every day. Stupid gloves. Interestingly, my (what I thought were unjustifiably expensive) touring boots not only came out of it in good shape, but clearly took some impact and did their job with flying colors. The little metal button on the right ankle was a great slider - not even a bruise on my foot. And the hard back protector meant no damage there. The worst of it was the bruising on the inside of my outside leg from the rear shock. Damn, that was ugly!

So I gear up (helmet, jacket, gloves, pants, boots) because I know it works. I will invest in some nice leather for future track days, too, maybe even a set for touring - my kids are gunning for a pink power ranger-styled suit. To me, it's part of the action of motorcycling. It's as much mental armor as it is body armor.
Katherine: I couldn't agree more. I will say that my gear is part of my bike and gearing up is part of the experience mentally as well as physically. You've nailed it for me too!

I intend to afford Motoport Kevlar soon. Then I will be ready for the zombies and any mishaps as wlell.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:18 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
I made the statement: ATGATT is overrated.... and if you guys are honest with yourselves I bet most of you don't ride ATGATT either as it implies ALL the gear ALL the time.
How many of you guys wear ALL the gear EVERY SINGLE TIME you ride a bike,
I wear all the gear all the time. No skin beneath the chin. No gloves, no ride. Boots only (nothing that does not protect my ankles). At a dead stop I'll flip up my chin guard (Modular helmet) but when the wheels turn the guard drops. In the summer I wear mesh, in the winter leather (sometimes over the mesh). Sweat washes off.

If you don't ride ATGATT that is your choice. I think you are foolish if you don't but you have the right to be foolish and I have the right to wear extra 'insurance".

YMMV.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:45 AM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
I'm not saying I'm impervious to getting some serious rash, but even the local cops just wear those goober storm trooper boots, and open face helmets, and they ride all day, every day. Short Sleeves, too, ".
Just an FYI, almost all cops ride in the gear that is mandated by their departments. Even if they wanted to they could not wear ATGATT!

Jim
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:49 AM   #359
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Just yesterday I had a friend come by and pick me up for the purpose of giving me a ride to my new to me scoot.

She had her dog with her so we were rolling down the highway in her Expedition with the windows partly down. The wind noise was so bad I thought I would put in my ear plugs...

It was then I realized I had grabbed my Helmet, Pants, Gloves, Back Pack and had FORGOTTEN MY JACKET.

It was about 80 degrees so it was no problem to ride home without it but it was a reminder of how much I like wearing gear. I had on a short sleeve shirt and the bugs and crap kicked up by other motorists hitting my arms was a little distracting and even painful a couple of times.

IMO Gear is for comfort more that protection.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:54 AM   #360
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I have always been a big proponent for ATGATT. I'm confident in my riding ability but I have no control over inattentive cagers, deer, etc.. Proper gear makes me feel safer when I'm fighting Atlanta's infamous traffic. That being said it gets extremely hot and humid in Atlanta during the summer. If I gear up and commute to work, I'm soaked and stinking by the time I arrive. Therefore, the bikes sit a lot more during the summer.

One of my coworkers never wears ATGATT because its too hot. During the summer when my bikes are collecting dust, he rides in everyday wearing shorts and a T shirt. I don't necessarily approve of his lack of gear but he is out riding while I'm in the car.
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