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Old 04-06-2012, 09:25 AM   #46
RidingDonkeys
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Originally Posted by daveinva View Post
Like by wearing gear?

I don't know why they call it "common" sense...
Like by not getting on the back of a dipshits crotch rocket and letting him act a fool. If I recall the story correctly, she got lifted off the bike because he was going so fast.

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Old 04-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #47
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In answer to the original question, no. In other words, ATGATT isn't "overrated" in that it has been proven to work time and time again. I don't think anyone seriously disputes that you are better off in almost any crash wearing more and better gear. But, the question that a lot of people in this thread are answering is a different one, and that is if they feel the need to wear ATG "all the time." For me it's MOTGMOTT (most of the gear most of the time). I judge the relative risk of what type of ride I am going on and I dress for what I perceive to be that risk, and I have various types of gear that allow me to be comfortable in most weather so I have the option of protection if I feel I need it. But, sometimes I will pop down to the store wearing just jeans and shoes, but I will always have on a full-coverage helmet and gloves, and usually a motorcycle jacket. I do believe that the risk level is not always the same, and that how you drive is really the most important protection.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:28 AM   #48
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I can't honestly say I'm ATGATT. I have, very rarely, ridden without my armored overpants on. Usually in the summer when it's hot and I can't be bothered to put them on. I can literally count the number of times I've done this on two hands.

I've never not worn any other piece of gear. Always full face helmet. Always armored gloves, always armored boots (I like alpinestars boots a lot -- currently have a pair of SMX boots) and always armored jacket. It doesn't get humid here like it does in some places so it's a lot more bearable even in the summer -- really hot days might have me soaking my shirt with cold water before putting the jacket on -- which has a removable liner and lots of zip open vents.

I don't agree that ATGATT is for nancies and wusses. It's for people who know how much the asphalt hurts and would like to do everything they can to MITIGATE the risks. We all know motorcycling is somewhat risky. Different people are willing to accept different levels of risk. As long as somebody is educated about the risks and takes whatever steps THEY are comfortable with, I don't give a rat's ass what you wear (or don't).

What drives me bonkers are the morons who don't realize the risks they are assuming by not wearing gear. Not everyone who doesn't wear gear is doing this -- some know full well what the results can be. But far too many people don't -- they just think "well I won't crash. Haven't yet." Yeah, well, nobody plans on crashing. And you can certainly control yourself, but you can't control the other people on the road.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:37 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by gfloyd2002 View Post
No. Seems pretty one sided in favor of wearing gear to me. There are numerous studies that support the fact that wearing gear significantly reduces risk of serious injury. Here is but one of many results (this one from the George Institute Study): Motorcyclists were significantly less likely to be admitted to hospital if they crashed wearing motorcycle jackets (RR=0.79), pants (RR=0.49), or gloves (RR=0.41). When garments included fitted body armour there was a significantly reduced risk of injury to the upper body (RR=0.77), hands and wrists (RR=0.55), legs (RR = 0.60), feet and ankles (RR=0.54). Non-motorcycle boots were also associated with a reduced risk of injury compared to shoes or joggers (RR=0.46). (RR is the relative risk ratio, showing the percentage of risk of one group over another, so a RR of less than one means something is less likely to occur by a certain percentage). Another study also looked at the role of protective gear in reducing serious injury. The MAIDS study found that: In 74% of the cases the upper injuries were reduced or prevented by upper torso clothing. For lower extremity injuries, gear reduced or prevented 66.3% of injuries.

While I don't disagree with the general direction of the findings, I find the design of the MAIDS report problematic. 2000 variables for 921 cases is in particular the beginnings of craptastic research design. The bulk of the sample was scooters, too, which probably biases the results.

Also: "Due to the absence of comparable exposure data, it was not possible to determine if any month, day of the week or time of the day was a risk factor."

This makes me wonder if they used any other forms of exposure (think: miles per year ridden), which tends to be necessary in hazard/survival modeling, as obviously someone who rides 5x more than someone else has more risk of accident (more opportunities).

This is unfortunate, because better methods exist in social demography, and accidents are exactly the sort of outcome that social demographers look at. I am not a social demographer, but even I can see these issues. One of the pitfalls of skipping the peer review process, though.

I hope these guys at least crack a methods textbook once: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/research/tfh...S/overview.cfm
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:43 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post


Rarely do I ride ATGATT and if you guys are honest with yourselves I bet most of you don't ride ATGATT either as it implies ALL the gear ALL the time.


You're wrong.

First of all, you don't even list a set of armored pants and therefore, you're lacking All the gear. Second of all, yes I do wear all of it, all of the time. Even if I am at work and just going out for a Mickey Dee's run, I'll borrow a car or gear up. My Aerostich pants are VERY easy to pull on and off and so are my BMW All-Around boots.

I've been in an accident on a 95 degree day that would have left me a paraplegic were it not for my arnored jacket. So ATGATT really does mean something to me.

As for my view of others, I already think most people are idiots. There is ample evidence to support this without looking at what others wear when riding. Just because I think they are idiots doesn't mean I wont hang out with them though nor would I ever insult their choices. In America, we are free to be idiots and I support your right to be one.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:49 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
I judge the relative risk of what type of ride I am going on and I dress for what I perceive to be that risk, and I have various types of gear that allow me to be comfortable in most weather so I have the option of protection if I feel I need it. But, sometimes I will pop down to the store wearing just jeans and shoes, but I will always have on a full-coverage helmet and gloves, and usually a motorcycle jacket. I do believe that the risk level is not always the same, and that how you drive is really the most important protection.
Hmmm... I also have a concealed carry permit and carry a pistol all the time (when and where legal). I am of the opinion that I can't really predict risks well enough to risk my life. I have no intention of ever being in a place where I think I might need my gun. I also don't plan on riding in such a way that I'm likely to need my armored gear or helmet. My decision to have both all the time is insurance against being wrong in my risk assessment.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:55 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
Like by not getting on the back of a dipshits crotch rocket and letting him act a fool. If I recall the story correctly, she got lifted off the bike because he was going so fast.

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Yes, that was her first mistake.

Good thing smart and talented riders never crash though, no need for gear then.

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Old 04-06-2012, 10:02 AM   #53
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I wear it all the time, even for short stint's. When it's cold, like now, goretex with armour, sidi crossfire boots, i wish they didnt make such a racket when i walk, leather jacket and trousers, when it gets warmer. I really like leather, doesnt flap in the wind, make's a difference on a bike like the 990, where you sit upright. It's up to the individual, what you wear. As someone mentioned before, protective gear nowadays is within everyone's means, but i still see people riding, wearing jeans and t-shirt and sneaker's, often riding a brand new bike, no money left to buy gear, i s'pose. If you want to be an idiot, the choice is yours.
And dont give a fuck how i look either!
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:04 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Each time I went down I was doing something stupid and the accidents were 100% avoidable, I learned from those experiences and I'm a better rider as a result.
IMHO, that is the most important statement about safety anyone can make... the gear is always secondary.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:12 AM   #55
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IMHO yes it is. Riding skills and accident avoidance are far more important to me. That being said I rarely ride w/o gear. However my emphasis is on remaining upright and unscathed.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:20 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
IMHO yes it is. Riding skills and accident avoidance are far more important to me. That being said I rarely ride w/o gear. However my emphasis is on remaining upright and unscathed.
Typically the more knowledgeable you are about riding skills, the more inclined you are to wear full gear!


It's the people that "think" they know how to ride that also "think" bad stuff won't happen to them

Nobody ever killed in a motorcycle accident has been killed in one before!
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:27 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post


Is short sighted, sweeping and just plain assed stupid IMO. If you think riding a motorcycle is dangerous then you shouldn't be riding.
What I got from BB's statement was...he is more of a manly man for NOT wearing ATGATT. You know, chicks dig scars and all that.

Me, I'm not ATGATT. The only thing lacking for me to be ATGATT is a good pair of riding pants and moto specific boots. I do wear shin/knee guards occasionally and the boots I have aren't too bad.
I had a pair of armored pants but the zippers screwed up within two weeks, took them back and never got around to replacing them.
I really should get another pair just to cover my ass( chaps pun intended )
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Why not. Are you implying that most here are not capable of civil discussions?
Ha...at least you didn't put this in Jo mamma. Life is all about choices. Go with what feels right for you. For me, I wear all the gear. I don't have time to be off of work and out of commission.

The gear is mostly why only about half of the cruiser guys wave as they go by.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #59
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I think the gear you wear, is a part of the package of safety, you cant separate them. Friend of mine died of head injuries he recieved after collission with a car making a left in front of him, he was wearing a helmet, didnt fasten the strap though. He used to say, 'cant be bothered to do the fucking strap every time'. Lot of times when it's stinking hot, for example, i think this is pia, or really cold and your visor is fogging up, but after few miles of twisties, things look lot better!
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:47 AM   #60
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ATGATT?? Not for the first few years of riding....but at this point,after two low-sides and THANKFULLY Before a high-side, it is not overrated! And you are totally wrong about spinal cord injury and blunt force trauma--ATG absolutely protects against these injuries as well as traumatic brain injury.(not every time,but often enough to wear the gear)
This time last year I was in a trauma unit; the gear saved my life:no question about it.

THANKS!
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