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Old 04-15-2012, 12:24 AM   #61
tagesk
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What you do now, is to adjust the screw according to the throttle wire.
That is no good, I think.

Here is what I would have done; I air it here and we'll see how it flies:
- "Release" both throttle bodies (both sides).
- Release the throttle cable on the left side (where you have been screwed, so to speak).
- Using my photo, and a flash light as I do, look down into both right and left. At this point, both magic screws should be resting on their studs. That is why you need to remove the cable on the left; you want it freely to go "all the way down".
- Adjust the screw on the left side, which will push on the stud and open or close the throttle itself. Now, by comparing, you should be able to get it "close", at least. Making sure, obviously, that the stud touches on the right side, as well.

- WHen you get as close as you can, attach the wire again on the left side. There should be 1mm of play in that wire! That is, only when the wire haS been pulled 1mm should the screw loose contact with the stud.

You are, I am sorry to say, placing yourself at a disadvantage by not having the pleasure of looking forward to a Gin Martini after work.

[TaSK]
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:08 AM   #62
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A gin martini is starting to sound very tempting!

I don't think I adjusted the screw according to the wire because there was a bit of slack in the wire even before I installed the new stud. What I'm saying is that I think the throttle was at it's furthest possible fully closed point and then the cable was adjusted to add some play, or is this not physically possible. When I adjusted the screw I think it just added a very small amount of more play on the wire and opened the throttle slightly of course.

The clicking noise from the left side TB did decrease slightly as well.
Since my last post I did discover that I was not so lucky with the big o-ring this time and a very small portion of it did get pinched out between the intake tube and the TB. Could this small problem have much of an effect overall? If so I will have to order one and wait before conducting any more "experiments."

Jazz62 screwed with this post 04-15-2012 at 01:40 AM
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #63
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Some time back I wrote up a how-to on resetting the throttle stop screws if they were ever messed with. In your case the same thing has happened, more or less in sort of a reverse way.

As an alternative approach, one way to go about this is to use the 'good' TB as a reference and then balance the 'repaired' TB to it.

It would mean messing with the throttle stop screw on the 'repaired' TB to match the same air flow as the 'stock' TB. This also assumes that the air bypass screws are identical in terms of air flow.

This is the 1st approach I'd take, mostly because if it works it will the least involved and easiest to perform. It will require a manometer and clean air bypass screws and passage ways.

Something to consider anyway. Sorry if this has already been suggested, I just skimmed this thread…

JJ
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:55 AM   #64
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post
The clicking noise from the left side TB did decrease slightly as well.
As you left screw is, well, screwed, you need to make the best possible assumption to get you going without too much ado. And that is, I think, is to assume that the right side is OK.
If this assumption holds, you should be able to build on that to get back to a reasonable situation.

First we look at the situation "at rest".
  1. When you let go of the throttle, both sides should return to a position where the screw rests on the stud
  2. When resting on the screw, both throttles should let in the same amount of air.
If you get to this situation everything else is standard adjustment.

How to check 1?

Simple - unhook both wires (both sides). If you don't unhook them, this will bite you later because it is (very) hard to notice if the wire is being pulled as you turn the body around to see things.
Mkae your life simple: unhook both throttle wires.

How to check 2?
I know of no other method that to remove both throttles (to the extent that I have done in the photo you see above). Stick a flash light into the back and look down into the bore. Try the right side first. You should see a sliver of light, just as in my photo.
Then, turning to the left hand side, make the sliver as equal as you can - by turning the Sacret Screw in or out. Remember - the screw rests on the stud (!) and when you turn the Sacres Screw this will open of close the brass throttle.
If you turn the Sacres Screw all the way out, you should be able to see that the throttle closes too much. The Screw is there to push it open a tiny little bit.
Use your right hand side as a point of reference to understand just how much.

Convincing yourself the two sides are at equal position when at rest, it is time to attach the wires.
When connected, because of the 1mm slack, both sides should still be resting on the stud even with the throttles wires attached.

This is what I would have done to get into a known position from where to move forward.
Comments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post
Since my last post I did discover that I was not so lucky with the big o-ring this time and a very small portion of it did get pinched out between the intake tube and the TB. Could this small problem have much of an effect overall? If so I will have to order one and wait before conducting any more "experiments."
On the intake-side (that is between the body and the cylinder) air can be sucked in. Then the air flow will be un-even and proper balance will be impossible. On the outside, a missing o-ring means that air arrives without having being cleaned by the air filter. Not good.

However - for the time being you are working on the bike. Use Duct tape to seal the place where you have a potential leak and continue to work. When you have a glorious solution, you replace the O-ring on the final assembly.

[TaSK]
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:01 AM   #65
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Okay, so I have my work cut out for me today - no riding

What about the missing paint marks on the TPS? Since it appears that the original owner has fucked this up too. I have not had the courage to look at the right side sacred screw yet, just having my first cup of coffee. Was up most of the night with our oldest dog who is in his final days. He's been fighting a brain tumor for several months.


To Live by piano62, on Flickr

So if the right side has been "screwed" too, just start from scratch, eh? Back both scared screws out so they are not touching the studs then screw them in till they both resemble your photo with the flashlight. I wonder if I can fabricate some kind of wire gauge to make sure both sides have the same exact opening. I take some small comfort that I have already done things that I was really afraid to do and the bike is still very rideable.

Jazz62 screwed with this post 04-15-2012 at 09:07 AM
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:52 AM   #66
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post
Okay, so I have my work cut out for me today - no riding
My suggestion of a proper take on that: Better to have too much work than too little.
It is easier to scale back, than to scale "up".

We'll just hold out breath while we wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post
So if the right side has been "screwed" too, just start from scratch, eh?
Sorry to say, but in that case you're screwed

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Old 04-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk View Post
My suggestion of a proper take on that: Better to have too much work than too little.
It is easier to scale back, than to scale "up".

We'll just hold out breath while we wait.


Sorry to say, but in that case you're screwed

[TaSK]
Screwing is supposed to be pleasurable but this starting to feel like my face is in the pillow

I'm going out to look at the right side now. So all joking aside, am I really completely screwed if the right side has been messed with? That would be heartbreaking.

Jazz62 screwed with this post 04-15-2012 at 11:23 AM
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:37 PM   #68
def
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If both TB's idle stop screws have been tampered with, here is how I would proceed;

1- Thoroughly clean both the TBs by removing them from the engine and giving them a good thorough spraying with carb cleaner. No specific brand...just plenty of it and remove the BBS from their respective ports and clean those ports thoroughly.

2- Grease the orings and reinstal the TBs insuring there are no vacuum leaks anywhere in the intake runners.

3- Turn the BBS to the seats and back them out 1 1/2 turns.

4- Instal a manometer to both TBs.

5- Start the engine and note the vacuum and RPM readings. Without touching the BBSs, adjust the idle RPM to 1150 RPM using both throttle stop screws to achieve correct idle RPM and equal vacuum readings.

6- Apply blue paint to the throttle stop screw threads.

7- Future adjustments for TB balance should employ only throttle cable adjustments and BBS adjustments. The throttle stop screws should never be disturbed.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:01 PM   #69
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And whilst proceeding according def's instructions, keep the TPS in the 350-380 mV range.

Peel back the rubber booth on that connector, shove a needle between the red/white wire and the seal and hook up a multimeter.
When you turn the 'sacred screw', the TPS reading will alter, so loosen the 2 screws holding the TPS and rotate to keep the reading in spec.

And sorry to hear about your dog, dog people here as well.

Paul.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:43 PM   #70
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^^ hopefully these posts will help you get back on the road.

In a previous post I referred to a zero-zero procedure. While close, the one written for the R1100 doesn't quite apply, as the R1100 and R1150GS have different motronic systems. I apologize and stand corrected.
This old thread might be helpful...http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53667
But it seems to me you should check the voltage of the TPS at idle since it has been monkeyed with....
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:59 PM   #71
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Geeze, I feel so in over my head. Had I never bought and tried to use Grok's Harmonizer I would not be in the boat I now find myself in. She was a little lumpy at idle but ran great, ride it, smile, repeat - end of story.

Conversely, Grok's Harmonizer has a "gauge mode" and I'm wondering if I can use this mode to get the right and left side TB to the same baseline setting, using the throttle stop screws to achieve even vacuum and proper idle. To my feeble non-mechanical brain I wonder if this would be easier than using Tagesk's method of matching to the sliver of light as in his photo.

Here is some of the info from Grok's Harmonizer thread:

"Gauge mode is a heavily damped vacuum gauge, intended to measure vacuum on intakes that support one or two cylinders. Only one Harmonizer port is used. The other is left unconnected. A left-zero meter representation is displayed along with a numeric representation in the range of 0.00-29.00 inHg.
Gauge mode
can be used to adjust idle speed with the tach function and mixture (carburetor) with the tach and/or gauge function. Gauge mode can also a be a powerful diagnostic tool.
In Gauge mode, if you use the yellow port, the tach is calibrated for 4-stroke motors, 1 cylinder/intake.
In Gauge mode if you use the red port, the tach is calibrated for 4-stroke motors, 2 cylinders/intake.
As in Balancer mode, for 2-strokes in Gauge mode you must divide the tach readings in half."


Does this sound like it could work to achieve a "healthy" baseline setting for the throttle stop screws? I've cleaned the BBS and passages already. When I installed the new cam-chain tensioner I took notice that the left side TB bore and butterfly looked very clean.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:43 AM   #72
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As I stated I wrote up a how-to for situations such as this. It isn't all that hard but it does require getting your head around what is going on and uses a DVM and the TPS to re-establish the proper amount of butterfly opening.

Also if it were me I'd use metal based epoxy as in JB weld, not red thread locker to 'cement' that button back in place.

AND there is a simpler method I heard about and now use for setting the throttle stop screws. In fact I first heard about it from the team that came up with the zero=zero method on the older 1100's

It works equally as well for the 1150's.

JJ
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:56 AM   #73
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post
Conversely, Grok's Harmonizer has a "gauge mode" and I'm wondering if I can use this mode to get the right and left side TB to the same baseline setting, using the throttle stop screws to achieve even vacuum and proper idle. To my feeble non-mechanical brain I wonder if this would be easier than using Tagesk's method of matching to the sliver of light as in his photo.
The "light through the sliver" is only to get you into the ballpark.
When you are there, your bike will run as well (or bad) as it did

Then you do as Def suggests; set the two brass screws equal and the a manometer to adjust perfect by using the Sacred Screws.
To keep costs down, you obviously build your own meter from four meters of clear plastic tube nailed on a board and one liter of (old) oil.
Using a home-built meter and knowing that it is perfectly calibrated by means of gravity is (almost) as nice as looking forward to a generous serving of gin after Mission Completed.

You'll be fine!
And just imagine firt time you pull it all the way to the red line, and there are no vibrations!
Not that we're against things that vibrate, but we're talking BMW here.

[TaSK]
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:06 AM   #74
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I uew the aquarium hose manometer, to damp it more I put some cotton in the line right next to the end. I vary the amount of cotton to fit your preference. Easy to reach at the end of the hose. Both of the balls of cotton mine has are about the size of a Q-tip. Makes setting more precise.

Mine takes a few seconds to stablize. My bike would suck up the transmission fluid into the intake if the balance was off too far. Like when i have a brain fart and turn the wrong way

Rod
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:22 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post

AND there is a simpler method I heard about and now use for setting the throttle stop screws. In fact I first heard about it from the team that came up with the zero=zero method on the older 1100's

It works equally as well for the 1150's.

JJ
I've been chasing down a lot of threads trying to learn learn learn but I'm pretty sure I have not come across this "simpler method." Let me guess, buy a new set of TB from Max BMW?
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