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Old 04-18-2012, 02:46 PM   #91
johnjen
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As Tim The Toolman would say…

Its DUCTTAPE

And even I have some holding my left front turn signal housing together.


JJ
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johnjen screwed with this post 04-18-2012 at 02:56 PM
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:03 PM   #92
Jazz62 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
What t he _ _ _ _? Duck tape? Duck tape has no place on a motorcycle or car.

And, why do you bother to order o-rings from BMW? Go to your local autoparts store...they'll have an assortment. Take the old one or get the specs from a BMW parts fische...o-rings are $0.50 a piece and no waiting.

Shame on you...get that duck tape away from your motorcycle....immediately.

Get on the "L" and go to Lou Malnatis for a nice pizza....leave the duck tape at home....


While Lou Malnati's is tasty (casserole?) but growing up in NYC, I cannot bring myself to call it pizza!
Think I'll get some nice yellow tape!
Local auto parts place had nothing of the sort in the o-ring department.

Jazz62 screwed with this post 04-18-2012 at 03:31 PM
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:46 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
if they are 1/2 to 1 turn apart, its not enough to get all bent out of shape about.
Unfortunatly, they are 1 and 1/2 turns apart (that's 1+1/2), which I'm wondering if I SHOULD get all bent out of shape about it. Any long term mechanical side effects from the BBAS's being that far apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
Most likely its due to compensating for wear elsewhere in the TB (I suspect the throttle stop screw stop plates and the ends of the throttle stop screws themselves).
I do see the slightest little dimple on the stop where the screw makes contact. It's very slight, but as sensitive as the precious set screws seem to be, perhaps that's the trouble. I got's 81.5k on this beast thus far. That enough to wear em out?

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So unless you're REALLY motivated and just have a hanker'n for tweak'n, fuck'n, & screw'n with things, I'd just leave well enough alone. ESPECIALLY if the bike is running well to begin with.
Oh, I tweak, fuck, and screw all the time. I'm up for it bro!

I don't want to hijack this thread from the Jazz man, so I'll take my reply and listen for a bit.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:20 PM   #94
johnjen
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Originally Posted by CousinDave View Post
Unfortunatly, they are 1 and 1/2 turns apart (that's 1+1/2), which I'm wondering if I SHOULD get all bent out of shape about it. Any long term mechanical side effects from the BBAS's being that far apart?


I do see the slightest little dimple on the stop where the screw makes contact. It's very slight, but as sensitive as the precious set screws seem to be, perhaps that's the trouble. I got's 81.5k on this beast thus far. That enough to wear em out?

Not worn OUT, but worn, yes. Those dimples on the striker plates and the corresponding flattening of the end of throttle stop screws do contribute to the differences in the BBAS (Big Brass Air Screws) settings
.

Oh, I tweak, fuck, and screw all the time. I'm up for it bro!

I don't want to hijack this thread from the Jazz man, so I'll take my reply and listen for a bit.
Well then if you have a differential manometer (a 'standard' one will work as well) and know what you're doing and are fearless, then go for it.

Oh and have you throughly cleaned out the air bypass channels and the BBAS's as well?

JJ
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• The hidden harmony is found with joy, while the obvious brings indifference.
• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

WingMakers.com
Collected Works of the WingMakers Volume 1 pg. 590
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:59 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
Well then if you have a differential manometer (a 'standard' one will work as well) and know what you're doing and are fearless, then go for it.

Oh and have you throughly cleaned out the air bypass channels and the BBAS's as well?
Thanks JJ, I did in fact clean out the bypass channels today after reading further up in this thread. Was pretty gunky. Helped but did not solve the issue. Perhaps I need to do it again just to be sure. This time I'll get some compressed air handy to blow it out while the carb cleaner is soaking in ( I don't feel good about actually sticking a pipe cleaner or something in there). Any better way to do it?

I haven't been calling it a "differential" manometer, but what I do have here in the photo is my home made version of one. The plenums work a treat to keep the fluid(gasoline) nice a steady for easy reading. Only takes me about 5 minutes to do a complete TB sync. And fluid just don't lie. 500 miles on the highway and my hands are not worn out from buzzz buzz buzzzzzz.


CousinDave screwed with this post 04-19-2012 at 07:00 AM
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:20 PM   #96
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Next step

Did the best I could at getting the throttle screws adjusted so that the butterfly openings looked "right" using a flashlight to shine through. Got everything back together, set the BBS to 2.5 turns out on each side, no pinched o-rings and hoped for the best.

She started up fine but idling a little high 1350-1450rpm and rough, so I backed off the left side throttle screw and the idle came down but still rough, rougher than before I started this whole thing. Blipping the throttle she would pop a little just before returning to idle.

I thought I should reset the Motronic (stupidity?), maybe that would help so key on twist throttle all the way, hold for a second, release. Repeat a total of three times. Key off and restart.

When I restarted her WOW, idle was very low, approximately 750-800rpm and very, very rough. She was also backfiring pretty regularly every couple of seconds.

And the fast idle lever had very little effect, even in the third position, idle would only reach 1000rpm. I have no idea why.
Both throttle stops are resting on the throttle screws and both cables have almost identical free play. RPM's do rise with regular throttle input but she's running very rough and the backfiring gets worse if giving her throttle. Un-rideable in her current state.

I feel totally screwed now. Must be time to start drinking Tagesk!

Luckilly - I have two low-mileage (23K) TB's sitting here in a box. both are from the same bike and both have untouched throttle screws. I think I have to cut my losses with the ones currently on the bike and just get rid of them.

I think I can successfully install the new/used ones except for one thing that I don't know how to do. I've tried searching the forum but had no luck. How do I remove the TPS from the existing TB and install it on the new TB? Then with the new TPS installed do I have to do a TPS test or reset using pins 1 and 4 and a volt meter?

Jazz62 screwed with this post 04-21-2012 at 10:39 PM
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:15 PM   #97
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Sounds as though at this point it couldn't get much worse. May i suggest that you wind both BBS's in all the way (min. idle) and using your harmonizer/mano whatever, match your r/h side throttle stop to your left, a visual comparison is nowhere near accurate for smooth running. Then wind out your BBS's to increase and final match of idle. I am faintly suspicious that you may not have adequate free-play in your cables overall, without free-play you will never get there.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:48 PM   #98
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Sounds as though at this point it couldn't get much worse. May i suggest that you wind both BBS's in all the way (min. idle) and using your harmonizer/mano whatever, match your r/h side throttle stop to your left, a visual comparison is nowhere near accurate for smooth running. Then wind out your BBS's to increase and final match of idle. I am faintly suspicious that you may not have adequate free-play in your cables overall, without free-play you will never get there.
Thanks for the suggestions, vagueout. When I eyeballed and adjusted the butterfly openings by way of the throttle screws I had already released the cables from their pulleys so I know the throttle stop was resting fully on the throttle screw. Sorry, I left out that part in my last post. In my case both throttle screws were molested by the previous owner so I have no baseline to build from or to match to. I think something that is obviously compounding matters is that the left TB plate is rattling around badly and I'm sure air is getting in there. I'm not sure what exactly resetting the Motronic did but it was dramatic to say the least. The last thing I will try before putting on the new TB's is to use the Harmonizer in "Gauge" mode and adjust the throttle screws so that both sides have equal vacuum. Then learn how to adjust the TPS to obtain correct voltage at idle because I'm sure it can't be correct currently. If I can't get her running properly after that then it's time for the TB swap.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:19 AM   #99
johnjen
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Originally Posted by CousinDave View Post
Thanks JJ, I did in fact clean out the bypass channels today after reading further up in this thread. Was pretty gunky. Helped but did not solve the issue. Perhaps I need to do it again just to be sure. This time I'll get some compressed air handy to blow it out while the carb cleaner is soaking in ( I don't feel good about actually sticking a pipe cleaner or something in there). Any better way to do it?

Not really. I suppose you could stuff a rag in the hole and soak it with cleaner for a while but it's a bit of a PIA in any case.

I haven't been calling it a "differential" manometer, but what I do have here in the photo is my home made version of one. The plenums work a treat to keep the fluid(gasoline) nice a steady for easy reading. Only takes me about 5 minutes to do a complete TB sync. And fluid just don't lie. 500 miles on the highway and my hands are not worn out from buzzz buzz buzzzzzz.

Have you double checked it by reversing the hoses to make sure it is completely symmetrical? Air leaks can be a bitch.

JJ
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• The hidden harmony is found with joy, while the obvious brings indifference.
• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

WingMakers.com
Collected Works of the WingMakers Volume 1 pg. 590
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:41 AM   #100
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I had to align 4 throttles and made a differential manometer to do it. The first problem was that the oil was too easy to suck out of the tubing so I converted to mercury. To keep it from being accidentally sucked out, I put a paper fuel filter up the tubing from the mercury.....It was great, the mercury refused to go through the paper and would then drain back down where it belonged. Now I could now make accurate readings easily.

When you replace the throttle body make sure that it aligns perfectly with the others. The previous owner failed to do this and it caused the engine vibrate and use 50% more fuel at low throttle settings. It was not off a lot, only a few degrees, but it made a big difference.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:12 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by tagesk View Post

I cure my own olives that I harvest in the garden.
Thus, I can make the brine to be just perfect.

Is a Martini-thread in any way inferior to an oil-thread?
No, not at all. But make mine a Gibson.

Save the olives for the Tapenade.


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Old 04-22-2012, 03:26 AM   #102
tagesk
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Sounds as though at this point it couldn't get much worse. May i suggest that you wind both BBS's in all the way (min. idle) and using your harmonizer/mano whatever, match your r/h side throttle stop to your left, a visual comparison is nowhere near accurate for smooth running. Then wind out your BBS's to increase and final match of idle. I am faintly suspicious that you may not have adequate free-play in your cables overall, without free-play you will never get there.
Good advice here, I think.

0) Visual setting to "similar"
1) Make sure, check again, and verify a third time that both Sacred Screws rests on the stud AND that there is free play on the wire.
2) Both BBS all the way in.
3) Manometer to balance the two sides, and experiment so that you understand which way to turn the Sacred Screw to make it idle faster or slower, and how to balance.
This is not simple and unfortunately a Gin Martini does not make it easier as a sharp, as opposed to relaxed and pleased mind is needed.
4) Only then open the BBS to fine-tune the idle.
5) Tell the Monotronic you're done by doing the key-throttle-key thing.

Then on to balance at, say, 3500 rpm.

Tip: The single best way to hunt for air leaks is to sprey WD-40 or some other flameable (spelling?) on the throttle boduies while the engine is running. You'll hear it if it is sucked in (as the idle changes for a moment).

At idle, with slack on the wire, the butterfly valve should be very, very close to completely closed. On mine, without the flash light behind it, I could not verify that there was an opening at all. Because the pistons create a good vacuum when "going down" even the tiniest of opening will let in sufficient air.

Ah - yes, and verify very carefully that that small rubber "hat" properly seals the nipple beneath the throttle body!

[TaSK]
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:31 AM   #103
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Tip: The single best way to hunt for air leaks is to sprey WD-40 or some other flameable (spelling?) on the throttle boduies while the engine is running. You'll hear it if it is sucked in (as the idle changes for a moment).
Dust-off (aka generic term: canned air) is flammable and doesn't leave any residue.


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Old 04-22-2012, 03:43 AM   #104
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Intake system orings from McMaster-Carr.

Metric Idle Air Screw orings in Viton, Buna, or Silicone
5mm x 1.5mm
p/n 9263K121 $3.36 pack of 25 - Viton
p/n 9262K121 $4.55 pack of 100 - Buna
p/n 5233T31 $7.63 pack of 50 - Silicone

Metric Intake Air Tube orings in Viton or Buna
Listed as 52mm x 2mm by BMW
p/n 9263K667 $14.71 pack of 5 - Viton
p/n 9262K531 $12.42 pack of 25 - Buna

Fuel Injector orings in Viton or Buna
Size AS568A -203 (aka: Dash Number 203)
Shore A: 75 in Viton
p/n 9464K543 $5.66 pack of 25
p/n 9452K184 $3.96 pack of 100


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Old 04-22-2012, 07:05 AM   #105
def
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Jazz, I believe you have another problem other than violated idle stop screws on your TBs....At this point, I would perform the 0 = 0 TPS setting....Oh, and please remember, pizza was invented in Chicago not NYC...

As a young fella (about 5-6, circa 1943), I used to walk down to the LI Sound (Seacliff) and swim out to those pretty floating poles...one day, I realized that there were some cages at the end of ropes tied to those floating poles and the cages had some wierd bugs inside...I took one of the bugs home to mom and she exclaimed, "Dennis, where on earth did you find this"? I replied, "I was swimming down at the water and I found it in a cage" She got all excited and cooked the bug for dinner. Dad asked, "When did you learn to swim"? I replied, "Today dad".

Check your TPS....

73
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