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Old 04-22-2012, 03:10 PM   #121
johnjen
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The amount of cable movement from the fast idle lever is very small.
In order to make it work properly ALL of the extra slack in that set of cables needs to be minimized. And the amount of slack in the throttle cables themselves at the adjusters at the TB's also needs to be adjusted to spec (1 or 2 mm I can't remember) When these adjustments are set then the fast idle will return to proper operation.

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Old 04-22-2012, 03:27 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
The amount of cable movement from the fast idle lever is very small.
In order to make it work properly ALL of the extra slack in that set of cables needs to be minimized. And the amount of slack in the throttle cables themselves at the adjusters at the TB's also needs to be adjusted to spec (1 or 2 mm I can't remember) When these adjustments are set then the fast idle will return to proper operation.

JJ
Is it normal though for both cables' fittings at the handlebars to be so loose? They both rotate freely, almost feels like they could fall out of the housing.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:31 PM   #123
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What JJ says. For the fast idle to work, be sure the throttle twist grip cable is loose enough, and the throttle body cables are tight enough. In other words, be sure there's enough slack in the throttle twist grip cable, and remove all but the specified slack in the two throttle body cables.

The fast idle cable operates a mechanism within the cable splitter box which rotates the cable splitter drum a small amount. That slight drum rotation pulls on the throttle body cables and opens the throttle butterflies a little to acheive the fast idle.

If the twist grip cable is too tight, that tightness holds the cable splitter drum a little bit off its seat. When that happens, the fast idle cable mechanism within the splitter box cannot rotate the splitter drum.

If the throttle body cables are too loose, the slight rotation of the splitter drum from the fast idle mechanism merely takes up that throttle body cable slack. And the cables never get tight enough to move the throttle butterflies.


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Old 04-22-2012, 03:36 PM   #124
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Is it normal though for both cables' fittings at the handlebars to be so loose? They both rotate freely, almost feels like they could fall out of the housing.
Start with a loose twist grip cable, and a loose fast idle cable.

Loosen both throttle body cables. Pull on the exposed portion of the throttle body cables in order to rotate the cable splitter drum back to its starting position.

Set the slack on the throttle body cables.

Set the slack on the twist grip cable. Which unless made too tight, does not affect the slack on the throttle body cables.

Adjust the fast idle cable to suit.


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Old 04-22-2012, 03:41 PM   #125
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Jazz, did you leave the air screws closed? And did you find some workable orings?

Edit: It's fine if they are closed, I was just asking.


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Old 04-22-2012, 04:19 PM   #126
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Jazz, did you leave the air screws closed? And did you find some workable orings?

Edit: It's fine if they are closed, I was just asking.

No, I opened them to get the idle up to 1100rpm after using Grok's Harmonizer in Gauge mode to get both sides vacuum close. I got new BSS's from Max BMW and they come with the o-rings. I'm going out to the garage to make a little video of what I'm talking about with these loose cable fittings at the bar. I'm not explaining it right.

27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000">

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Old 04-22-2012, 05:19 PM   #127
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Yes, that looks right to me. The other end of the 90 throttle cable tube isn't connected to anything. It's held in place only by the cable. There needs to be a little slack in the cable, and that results in what you see in the video.

That 'not connected' setup is normal for any sort of cable guide. In the same way, the ends of the throttle body cable sleeves aren't connected at the throttle bodies either. The difference is, on the twist throttle, the cable end traverses free space and levers a 90 tube, so it flops around more. The mechanical arrangement merely visually accentuates the small amount of cable slack.

Hey, it's the same idea as 'Push Puppets'. Remember push puppets? If the internal string is even a little bit loose the puppet starts to go limp.

How much 'rotational slack' is there in the twist grip before it starts tightening the cable? That's what I use to adjust the twist grip cable. Adjust out about almost all of the rotation slack.


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Poolside screwed with this post 04-22-2012 at 05:28 PM
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:11 PM   #128
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Yes, that looks right to me. The other end of the 90 throttle cable tube isn't connected to anything. It's held in place only by the cable. There needs to be a little slack in the cable, and that results in what you see in the video.

That 'not connected' setup is normal for any sort of cable guide. In the same way, the ends of the throttle body cable sleeves aren't connected at the throttle bodies either. The difference is, on the twist throttle, the cable end traverses free space and levers a 90 tube, so it flops around more. The mechanical arrangement merely visually accentuates the small amount of cable slack.

Hey, it's the same idea as 'Push Puppets'. Remember push puppets? If the internal string is even a little bit loose the puppet starts to go limp.

How much 'rotational slack' is there in the twist grip before it starts tightening the cable? That's what I use to adjust the twist grip cable. Adjust out about almost all of the rotation slack.

Very interesting, I thought for sure something must be broken. I have to leave for a gig downtown but will have a look tomorrow morning. Thank you for the help.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #129
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What instrument do you play? Do you have a CD out?

BTW, my salmon dinner was excellent.

Now, get that throttle thing sorted and go for a ride up to Road America. If that's too far, try the Chain O' Lakes...Blarney's Island...your GS will need pontoons.

73
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:50 PM   #130
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What instrument do you play? Do you have a CD out?

BTW, my salmon dinner was excellent.

Now, get that throttle thing sorted and go for a ride up to Road America. If that's too far, try the Chain O' Lakes...Blarney's Island...your GS will need pontoons.

73
Ha! Sitting in the car waiting for the cusp of 9 PM so I don't have to pay for parking. This is the first time I've had a phone that can get on the Internet, pretty cool! Here's my website, it's kind of chintzy so don't laugh. Unfortunately it's become much more important to have a good looking website then to be a really great player.

www.ronperrillo.com
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:14 PM   #131
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I think you're being modest. Next time I'm in Libertyville visiting my brother, I'll let you know...I'll cook dinner, you play piano...Oh, and I'll tune your GS.

Make sure you have Autolite 3923 sparkplugs in the engine.

Have a good gig..........

Oh, I forgot, your new mayor is a pig. I met and liked the original Richard J. Daley...he did know how to run Chicago. At one time, he was the most powerful man in the world.

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Old 04-22-2012, 10:42 PM   #132
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That's a classic writeup, but it's for the 1100 throttle bodies.

But, it would work here would it not? Or is the TPS voltage different on the '00 1150?
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:19 PM   #133
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Uh no.

The 1100 has a different amount of initial TPS 'bias' than the 1150.

The zero=zero refers to zero volts output from the TPS (actually it's .005 if memory serves) when the throttle is fully closed in the bore (not against the throttle stops).

The 1150 needs an additional amount of butterfly opening (Not zero=zero) in order to idle properly.

The write up I did a ways back was a way to achieve this extra 'bias' (Not zero).

Or you can use the alternative method I outlined previously.

JJ
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The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Old 04-22-2012, 11:19 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post

Seated both BSS's then used Grok's harmonizer in "gauge" mode and adjusted the throttle screws so that both sides were very close while intentionally keeping idle slightly low knowing I had completely closed the BSS circuit. This is one step where I think a manometer would have been slightly easier as I could view both sides at the same time.

With Grok's Harmonizer I had to keep switching sides, each time sorta locking down the throttle screw locknut. Set them with the idle right around 900-950rpm. Switch the Harmonizer to Balancer mode, fired her up and voila, almost perfectly balanced.

Fiddled with the BSS until idle was up around 1100rpm. Left side BSS is 1.25 full turn out, right side is just over 1/2 turn out. I think that's close enough. No backfiring, idle pretty damn smooth - like night and day from where I started.
Good deal! I just went back and read your post. I didn't notice the part about Gauge mode vs Balancer mode the first time.

The Balancer mode on the Harmonizer works fine to adjust the throttle stop screws.. The Harmonizer treats pressure differences between the throttle bodies the same. Regardless whether the pressure adjustments are made with the throttle stop screw, or the bypass air screw.

You know what I mean? It's 2 throttle bodies on a 2 cylinder motor, no matter what rpm it's turning.

On my 1150 I have the bypass air screws closed. And I adjust the throttle body balance using the throttle stop screws, using a Harmonizer in Balancer mode. It takes a little longer to make the adjustments because of where the stop screw are located and all, but the Balancer mode works just fine.

An aside. If you retard the timing a couple of degrees, the motor will idle at 700-750rpm. I don't have it set that low, it was just a little experimenting.


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Old 04-22-2012, 11:26 PM   #135
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Or you can use the alternative method I outlined previously.
We should do a Zero-Zero Part Deux writeup. With both bypass air screws closed.

Sort of a Zero-Zero-Zero-Zero.


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