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Old 02-20-2013, 12:27 AM   #136
toy4fun
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Colorado Springs. On Powers Blvd I come around a trailer in the left lane on the the right side. Moving pretty good on my little Transalp when up ahead is a motor officer on his Harley. I just wave and keep going giving him time to mount up and get his lights on. I pull over all the way into the dirt ( i love dual sport) he pulls up behind me puts the kick stand down and walks up to me where we go through the customary questions and denials. I can see his Harley but he can't and I see it fall and I don't move a muscle. Yes, I got a ticket but it was worth getting to watch him get that thing back on the rubber. Yes I offered to help but he wouldn't have it and no he would not let me take a picture!
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:13 AM   #137
Hack'dTiger
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Bluhduh On my FZ1n...

This is a long one, but needed to get the details right...

South-central Oklahoma. Coming home, on a Friday afternoon, from a job site in Thackerville. Normally I take the scenic route, but there was a bridge out on HWY77. So I jump on the interstate (I-35) just north of Marietta, only to hit the next exit about 10mi north. Two or so miles in, running with traffic, I happened to turn my head at the same time a gusty crosswind hit (heavy winds that day).....off flies my glasses.

I figured they were long gone, smashed, etc, but they were a nice pair and I wanted to at least do a quick search. I'm still 5 or so miles from the next exit, then would have to go back another 7-8, hit the northbound lane again, and travel 2 more to the point of liftoff. No patience for that.

So I hit the shoulder, hazards on. Pull well off in the grass, make a 180, and edge back to the shoulder. Hazards still on. The shoulders in this area are pretty wide, but I was staying as close to the outboard edge as possible for obvious reasons, and maintaining just enough speed to not fall over. Eased up to well past where my mental note was. No sign. Damn. Well off into the grass again, turn back around, in line with traffic now. Still on the very edge of the shoulder. Hazards still flashing. Decided to wait for a break in the traffic, hoof it over to the median, and walk it out a bit. Do so. Still no sign. Cross back over, and walking back. Dammit. "Oh well", I thought.

Get back to the bike. Standing in the grass, with the bike between myself and traffic. Keeping my eye on the crazy cagers the whole time. Fire it up. Take my night riding glasses out, pop 'em on, and mount the saddle getting ready to blast off. Hazards are still on. Checking my mirrors, waiting for a hole in the traffic, about to signal left and be on my way when......

I see two leos, lights blaring, coming up FAST. "Wow, that was close, I'll wait for them to pass...", I thought. Wrong. They came to a screeching halt behind me, tires smoking and everything. Still on the bike. Looking back, thinking, "WTF, they must be here to see if I need help....why else would they be stopping?!" Wrong again!

LEO1: "Step away from the bike!"
Uhhh, ok. This is a first. I ALWAYS remain seated, making no movements that would cause suspicion, and wait for the officer to approach me when being pulled over.

LEO1: "Hands above your head!"
"Can I ask what this is about?"

Then, out of nowhere, his tone goes straight to kill mode. "HANDS ABOVE YOUR HEAD!" Still with a confused look on my face , he repeats it again, hand on taser, with a crazy 'I'm going to tase your ass' look in his eyes. "HANDS ABOVE YOUR HEAD!!!!!!" So, I did.

"Sir, what did I do?" Still confused, but full respect still given so far.

LEO1: "JUST KEEP YOUR HANDS ABOVE YOUR HEAD!" As he inches toward me, hand on taser. Now, I've never been cuffed before, but I had a feeling that this was going to be my day. He leans in, one hand on the taser, the other reaching out to me, cautiously. I'm still . He then grabs my pocket knife (guess he saw the clip sticking out of my pocket), breathes a sigh of relief, and says, "You had a weapon!"

At this point I'm passed the point of shock and disbelief. I've been pulled over plenty of times, but never had I been treated like an escaped convict before...and I STILL didn't know what it was that I'd supposedly done. So I slipped, "Hell, if you're that worried about a little knife, I've got a sidearm in my other pocket!" He goes ballistic, again.

Oklahoma is a concealed carry state, and I am a legit permit holder.
LEO1: "You're supposed to tell me that you're carrying!!"
"Yes, I know, but you haven't given me a chance. Everytime I try to speak, you won't let me!"
LEO1: "Fine. Just forget it, and disgustingly asks for my paperwork."
"No problem, but it's in my back pocket...so don't shoot me."

Give him my registration, he goes to his car. I stay at the bike. LEO2 has been quiet the whole time, not a word. He comes over, calmly, and politely says, "We received an anonymous call that a drunken motorcyclist was weaving in an out of cars, down the middle of the road, against the flow of traffic. So you can understand our concern."

Against the flow of traffic, down the center line?! Yeah, not me. Not even close. So I explain the situation to the guy, he's cool, and apologizes for the confusion. I ask him what's up with LEO1?! "Well, he pulled an all-nighter and is a little touchy." A little?! "You need to get this guy laid!", I says, trying to lower tensions. He laughs.

About this time LEO1 comes back with my registration info. Seems to be calm(er). Trying, again, to ease the air I ask,"Find any warrants?" LEO1: "You've got WARRANTS?!"

LEO2 explains the story to LEO1, but he still has a crazy look in his eye. Returns my registration. Doubtingly asks, "If you lost your glasses, then what's that on your head?!" I'm still wearing my yellow set, in the daytime, I guess it wasn't obvious that they were a backup set. Finally convinced him that I was telling the truth though, but he's still far from professional.

LEO1: "You can't be riding against the flow of traffic!"
"Not even on the shoulder?"
LEO1: "No!"
"Not even with hazards on?"
"LEO1: "NO! WE CAN'T EVEN DO THAT!"
"I'm sorry, but the next exit was a long way off."

He continues to belittle me, gives me a warning, and tells me to go on my way. They waited behind me as I got ready, signaled, and then proceeded to loft it up to speed. They didn't pursue me, but I hit the next exit as quickly as I could just for safe measure.

I've always been respectful of law enforcement, especially troopers, but this guy was ridiculous. Hopefully the laugh was worth the long post.


P.S....Oh, and if the nosy moto-hatin' cager is reading this, here's a big thanks!
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:24 PM   #138
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Had this one happen to me last fall. I was headed home from work, just a normal commute, and actually fairly light for being the beginnings of rush hour. I was in the HOV lane, just riding along, kind of zoned out on the guy in front of me who was riding a Daytona rather tentatively while wearing slip ons and capris. He was going slower than traffic in the fast lane, so I was about to pull into the fast lane to get by. Right as I was about to make my move though, a Highway Patrolman pulled up along side me, turned on his lights and waved me over.

I really had no idea why, I hadn't been riding recklessly or anything, and while I was technically speeding, I was totally going with the flow of traffic. I thought maybe my tail light went out or something like that. So I pulled over to the shoulder and waited for him to come up to me.

The following conversation took place:

Him: Hello sir, just so you know you're being recorded right now, audio and visual by the Washington State Patrol.

Me: OK

Him: Do you have your license handy?

Me: Sure...
[I start to dig it out of my tank bag]

Him: How long have you had your endorsement?

Me: Oh, a couple years now

Him, pointing at my helmet: Where did you get this equipment?

[I have a Contour camera and a Sena intercom unit on my helmet, and actually had the camera rolling.]

Me: Uhh, online? At a couple different stores.

Him: Well, that stuff can't be on your helmet.

Me (dumbfounded): Huh? Really? Are you sure about that? This is an intercom unit and I checked the laws before I got it and it's legal to have helmet speakers. [I didn't mention that part of the reason I got it was because I'd previously been listening to music illegally on headphones]

Him: 'Cause it hinders your movement as well... [I assume he was talking about the wire to my mp3 player, which in no way hinders my movement] How long have you actually had that stuff on your helmet?

Me: I've had the camera on here about a year, and the intercom a few months.

He then asked if the bike was registered to me and if my address was up to date and all, and went back to his cruiser to run my info. I sat there and did the park of shame for a while and he eventually came back.

Him: Do you still have the paperwork for this equipment?

Me: Uh, yeah, I imagine I do somewhere.

Him: Well take a look at it and it will say in there that you're not allowed to mount stuff to your helmet.

Of course I was thinking at this point, "Hmm, equipment that's designed to be mounted to my helmet is not actually supposed to go there?" but I just said "OK." He told me to be safe in getting to wherever I was going, and sent me on my way.

As soon as I got home, I looked up WA motorcycle laws, and the only thing I saw regarding a helmet was that you have to wear one, and that you have to have goggles or a face shield.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:21 PM   #139
ttpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some call me...tim View Post
Had this one happen to me last fall. I was headed home from work, just a normal commute, and actually fairly light for being the beginnings of rush hour. I was in the HOV lane, just riding along, kind of zoned out on the guy in front of me who was riding a Daytona rather tentatively while wearing slip ons and capris. He was going slower than traffic in the fast lane, so I was about to pull into the fast lane to get by. Right as I was about to make my move though, a Highway Patrolman pulled up along side me, turned on his lights and waved me over.

I really had no idea why, I hadn't been riding recklessly or anything, and while I was technically speeding, I was totally going with the flow of traffic. I thought maybe my tail light went out or something like that. So I pulled over to the shoulder and waited for him to come up to me.

The following conversation took place:

Him: Hello sir, just so you know you're being recorded right now, audio and visual by the Washington State Patrol.

Me: OK

Him: Do you have your license handy?

Me: Sure...
[I start to dig it out of my tank bag]

Him: How long have you had your endorsement?

Me: Oh, a couple years now

Him, pointing at my helmet: Where did you get this equipment?

[I have a Contour camera and a Sena intercom unit on my helmet, and actually had the camera rolling.]

Me: Uhh, online? At a couple different stores.

Him: Well, that stuff can't be on your helmet.

Me (dumbfounded): Huh? Really? Are you sure about that? This is an intercom unit and I checked the laws before I got it and it's legal to have helmet speakers. [I didn't mention that part of the reason I got it was because I'd previously been listening to music illegally on headphones]

Him: 'Cause it hinders your movement as well... [I assume he was talking about the wire to my mp3 player, which in no way hinders my movement] How long have you actually had that stuff on your helmet?

Me: I've had the camera on here about a year, and the intercom a few months.

He then asked if the bike was registered to me and if my address was up to date and all, and went back to his cruiser to run my info. I sat there and did the park of shame for a while and he eventually came back.

Him: Do you still have the paperwork for this equipment?

Me: Uh, yeah, I imagine I do somewhere.

Him: Well take a look at it and it will say in there that you're not allowed to mount stuff to your helmet.

Of course I was thinking at this point, "Hmm, equipment that's designed to be mounted to my helmet is not actually supposed to go there?" but I just said "OK." He told me to be safe in getting to wherever I was going, and sent me on my way.

As soon as I got home, I looked up WA motorcycle laws, and the only thing I saw regarding a helmet was that you have to wear one, and that you have to have goggles or a face shield.
And this is why you never ask a cop about the legality of ANYTHING. I've also been told untrue things by LEOs
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:44 PM   #140
AviatorTroy
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Probably 20 years ago I was riding home from work in Columbus oh in August and took an entrance ramp with my visor cracked about half way open, wearing sunglasses underneath. A state trooper pulled me over before I even merged with traffic and walked up all in a huffy and asked why I was riding around with my visor open. I said "Well, it's 99 degrees out and I like to blow the sweat off my face so I can see." Gave me this huge lecture about eye protection and when he was done I said "Sir, I am pretty sure I can ride in this state with no helmet, no visor, just my sunglasses and it is completely legal, so I'm not sure what I did wrong there." He then told me that if my helmet has a visor, it has to be closed when I'm moving. I actually looked at him completely dumbfounded and said "That doesn't make any sense, you sure about that?" Another five minute foaming rant from him, I finally stopped him short and said "Are you citing me for anything?" No. "Am I under arrest?" No sir but.... "Bye".

Clicked it into gear and rode off, he was sure pissed but to this day I don't really understand what he thought he had on me other than that I was a 20 year old kid on a bike and he was sure he could find something wrong with that.....
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:22 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AviatorTroy View Post
Probably 20 years ago I was riding home from work in Columbus oh in August and took an entrance ramp with my visor cracked about half way open, wearing sunglasses underneath. A state trooper pulled me over before I even merged with traffic and walked up all in a huffy and asked why I was riding around with my visor open. I said "Well, it's 99 degrees out and I like to blow the sweat off my face so I can see." Gave me this huge lecture about eye protection and when he was done I said "Sir, I am pretty sure I can ride in this state with no helmet, no visor, just my sunglasses and it is completely legal, so I'm not sure what I did wrong there." He then told me that if my helmet has a visor, it has to be closed when I'm moving. I actually looked at him completely dumbfounded and said "That doesn't make any sense, you sure about that?" Another five minute foaming rant from him, I finally stopped him short and said "Are you citing me for anything?" No. "Am I under arrest?" No sir but.... "Bye".

Clicked it into gear and rode off, he was sure pissed but to this day I don't really understand what he thought he had on me other than that I was a 20 year old kid on a bike and he was sure he could find something wrong with that.....
Your "open" visor was an excuse. He was doing a "PC search"... that is, searching for probable cause to find something else he could cite you for.

Or maybe he was an optometrist in his previous career, and he was just really, really, really worried about your vision.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:50 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some call me...tim View Post

As soon as I got home, I looked up WA motorcycle laws, and the only thing I saw regarding a helmet was that you have to wear one, and that you have to have goggles or a face shield.
It's a federal law, 49 CFR 571.218 S5.5:

Quote:
S5.5 Projections. A helmet shall not have any rigid projections inside its shell. Rigid projections outside any helmet’s shell shall be limited to those required for operation of essential accessories, and shall not protrude more than 0.20 inch (5 mm).

As referenced in RCW 46.37.530:

Quote:
(3) For purposes of this section, "motorcycle helmet" means a protective covering for the head consisting of a hard outer shell, padding adjacent to and inside the outer shell, and a neck or chin strap type retention system, with the manufacturer's certification applied in accordance with 49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.218 indicating that the motorcycle helmet meets standards established by the United States department of transportation.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:04 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
It's a federal law, 49 CFR 571.218 S5.5:

As referenced in RCW 46.37.530:
It appears the Washington Code only says it has to be a helmet with a DOT certification by the manufacturer -- nothing there says you (the owner) can't stick something on the helmet.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:43 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
It's a federal law, 49 CFR 571.218 S5.5:




As referenced in RCW 46.37.530:
It appears the code does not define "rigid projection", nor does it indicate that this requirement applies to something that is not part of the helmet. Unless you've screwed or glued a camera to the outside of your helmet in such a way that it could not easily break away upon impact, I doubt any ticket would hold up in court. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop an LEO from writing a ticket in the first place or requiring you to show up and defend yourself should you choose to contest it.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:47 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
It's a federal law, 49 CFR 571.218 S5.5:
As referenced in RCW 46.37.530:
All that means is that the helmet needs to comply with it to meet DOT specs. It only affects the manufacturer and not the end user.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:22 PM   #146
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I've heard of other WA state riders being pulled over and warned/cited for helmet cams and I believe this is what they're writing it up under. That is all. I didn't write the laws and I'm not a LEO or a judge.

Although I must admit that I do find it entertaining to watch all of you Internet Ninja lawyers in action.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Mr_Gone View Post
Your "open" visor was an excuse. He was doing a "PC search"... that is, searching for probable cause to find something else he could cite you for.
Oh that never happens...
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #148
ttpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
I've heard of other WA state riders being pulled over and warned/cited for helmet cams and I believe this is what they're writing it up under. That is all. I didn't write the laws and I'm not a LEO or a judge.

Although I must admit that I do find it entertaining to watch all of you Internet Ninja lawyers in action.
That'd be a FEDERAL offense then, wouldn't it? Wrong jurisdiction. I think there's probably something about it in WA law.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:14 AM   #149
slartidbartfast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
That'd be a FEDERAL offense then, wouldn't it? Wrong jurisdiction. I think there's probably something about it in WA law.
Not at all - The Federal code is merely a standard for helmet specifications. Any State can specify how they intend that standard to apply. (Louisiana for a while simply had a list of "approved" helmets which rapidly became obsolete, putting most motorcyclists in violation. They then at some point required that helmets had to be "DOT approved". DOT specifically states that it does not approve or certify helmets but merely establishes a standard for manufacturers to self-certify against, so this law was technically impossible to comply with. The wording in the Washington State code seems to be requiring that helmets are DOT certified by the manufacturer, which avoids the common loophole whereby a novelty helmet with a self-applied DOT sticker technically complies with many States' badly written regulations.)

In case it isn't obvious enough - some police departments or individual LEOs don't like people riding about with cameras on their helmets - and this is a way to try and intimidate those who do. There is no real hazard to the rider associated with sticking something on their helmet that will easily break away on impact.

The ironic thing is that many safety advocates for large corporations and various government agencies are starting to require dash-cams in their vehicles. These perform exactly the same function as a helmet cam yet I have not heard of anyone being cited for having one.

I predict that, as more and more motorcyclists and motorists start using cameras in and on their vehicles, this concern will go away.
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slartidbartfast screwed with this post 02-22-2013 at 11:23 AM
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #150
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back in 1986 i got a $172 ticket for driving on a closed road.
they were doing road work and had about 150' of the road coned off. well i just rode through and the happy chp at the other end explained my error and was kind enough to give me an invatation to see the judicial process in action.
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