ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Equipment
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-08-2014, 04:23 AM   #76
S/W
Gnarly Adventurer
 
S/W's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Oddometer: 377
Another problem

I would like to replace my "older then 5 years" helmet, but, many helmet manufacturers have stopped making xxxl helmets. Am I supposed to give up riding because I have a big head?? My favorite helmet is a HJC xxxl half helmet. It has a decent fit,yet, not perfect. I would buy another one, if they hadn't stopped making my size. There are a handful of different xxxl models by a few manufacturers, but, I have even had to grind foam out of the xxxl helmets I have bought recently, due to not having a perfectly round head.
S/W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 04:44 PM   #77
triman11427
n00b
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Oddometer: 5
Continue the helmet conversation

An honest manufacturer: MET

The Italian company MET says in their 2010 catalog:
"We are often asked 'For how long is a helmet safe?', or 'how often should I replace my helmet?”' Until now it has been difficult to find any reliable figures to help answer these queries. MET have now developed a series of tests which are conducted on aged helmets to determine a 'best before' date (unless the helmet is involved in an accident. In that case it should be replaced immediately.). The results indicate that, if used properly accordingly to our owner manual, our helmets will still do their job up to eight years after they have been made. Not only is that good news for the customer, it’s great news for the environment!"

We applaud MET for undertaking an actual testing program on helmet life and for making that statement. We regard it as a triumph of integrity over marketing. MET's helmets are made with industry standard shells and liners, so there is no reason we can see that their recommendation should not be good for many other helmet brands as well. If another manufacturer comes up with a testing program that shows earlier deterioration in the protection from their products we will review this page.

In sum, we don't find the case for replacing a helmet that meets the ASTM or Snell standards that compelling if the helmet is still in good shape and fits you well.
triman11427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 05:03 PM   #78
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,018
Awe shit! Next someone is going to test and find the perfect tire for each purpose and the best oil with exact interval for changes too!

You're going to kill off all the forums with this kind of shit!
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 05:09 PM   #79
PeterW
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Gold Coast
Oddometer: 2,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailrider200 View Post
I have never seen any testing of a 5 yr or older helmet proving that it doesn't provide protection anymore.
So all I conclude at this time is that they want to sell helmets.

styrofoam is listed as degrading in 1+ million yrs. The problem is that the numbers never suggest the mechanism of decomposition. There are several - heat, biochemical, mechanical, irradiation. In the case of styrofoam, that material is biologically inert (microorganisms have a hard time eating it) so a long decomposition time is expected. However it is subject to degradation when exposed to sunlight (UV radiation), thermal energy (the bonds break when it gets hot enough), mechanical degradation (it erodes and wears away) and chemical attack (it burns). Under these conditions the decomposition time is much shorter.
I have and did. I used to work in the lab that tested helmets, one day, just for a laugh we all brought in the old helmets that were never going to be used again and ran them through. Now admitted, most were probably crap new :), but none would pass the current safety tests and by solid margins.

Mostly, the polystyrene inner had degraded to the point where a bandanna would have been near as useful.

That's a far step from '5 years', but yes there's a point at which they'll be crap, and being lawsuit averse the manufacturers pick a point that's conservative. I'd be O.K. with a helmet that's a few years old but been in the box, second hand, not so much.

Pete
PeterW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 09:09 AM   #80
BashOn
Bold Misadventurer
 
BashOn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Recalculating
Oddometer: 27
I make my living with my head (don't we all?), so I'm going with the 5 years of use or 7 years from date of manufacture, whichever comes first.

Just discovered my current helmet was made nearly 8 (!) years ago , so it's fortunate that a new Neotech is on the UPS truck for delivery today. The ride home from work will be the last time for the current helmet--it's going straight to the trash can.

[BTW, if I don't have a proper-fitting, up-to-date helmet for somebody who wants to be a passenger on my bike, they don't ride.]

BashOn screwed with this post 11-20-2014 at 09:20 AM
BashOn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 10:05 AM   #81
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,018
Key point for the EPS liner - chemical fume and UV exposure.
  • Keep helmets in the house, a closet would be good for sure.
  • Don't sit helmets on tanks in the garage, talk about a direct path for possible fumes, even if the seal is supposed to be tight.
  • Think about where you are sitting your helmet - not on a bar or something that might dig into the liner.
  • Consider the wear time. A helmet kept inside out of UV and fumes that is worn infrequently certainly would last better than the helmet left sitting on the bench in the garage or one that is worn with high frequency. Remember, EPS is the big enemy of environmentalists because it doesn't break down easily in natural (no chemical fumes) environments, so it should last a long time with good care.
Just some food for thought. My daily rider helmets when I was riding nearly daily got replaced every couple years. I have had helmets in the box in the closet that were five years old before being worn. I wasn't concerned, knowing what causes the degradation of the materials. The foam was essentially new. It ain't time, it's chemicals.

Shoei and Arai, among others, have to feel confident this is right considering they give you a long warranty against defects and they don't know when a helmet might be sold. They're nearly sealed up in a bag in the box, so decent storage keeps them in saleable shape.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 10:38 AM   #82
Noobens
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Noobens's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Kansas, USA
Oddometer: 115
My Scoprion EXO 1000 has decided to instate its own 5 year rule. This is year 5 with the lid, about 40,000 miles, and over the summer one of the liner clips broke (now I have to move the cheek pad into place every time I put it on) and the bottom of the liner is starting to crack. What a good helmet this has been though! I feel like the seals on the visor aren't what they used to be either, and the internal visor is showing its age as well. Scorpion no longer produces parts for these, so even if I wanted to wring out every bit of life it has left, I can't get parts. Boo hoo, time for another one!

I feel like if you're riding a lot, 5 years out of a helmet is a LOT of abuse.
__________________
2009 WR250R
2004 DL650
1978 KZ650
1966 CB160
1964 CA95
Noobens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #83
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,018
But what if those 5 years of riding was distributed over 3 helmets? Throw all three away?

I don't think so...
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #84
SnowMule
[angry moth noises]
 
SnowMule's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: I LIVE IN A GIANT BUCKET
Oddometer: 18,252
I'm still kind of amazed there's people that have helmets last that long.

Current lid has 2 snow seasons and 3 dirt seasons on it... and it's done. Got a new FXR in to replace it.

__________________
Spewer of the poignant non sequitur

SnowMule screwed with this post 11-21-2014 at 11:55 AM
SnowMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 11:38 AM   #85
MRBLACK947
Adventurer
 
MRBLACK947's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Location: South Hill, Wa.
Oddometer: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowMule View Post
I'm still kind of amazed there's people that have helmets last that long.
My helmet (1st gen Arai XD) is 8 years old now with approximately 30k miles on it. I'm comfortable with it's internal condition to use it another 2 years. Unless I come across a deal I just can't resist.
__________________
Steve

2014 Suzuki DL1000A V-Strom, Givi Airflow, Oxford Adventure grips, Rear fenderectomy, Hindle Carbon SlipOn. Clutch lever mod.
MRBLACK947 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 01:42 PM   #86
BashOn
Bold Misadventurer
 
BashOn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Recalculating
Oddometer: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBLACK947 View Post
My helmet (1st gen Arai XD) is 8 years old now with approximately 30k miles on it. I'm comfortable with it's internal condition to use it another 2 years. Unless I come across a deal I just can't resist.
There's no conclusive way to determine internal condition short of destructive testing. It's your head ....
BashOn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 02:06 PM   #87
MRBLACK947
Adventurer
 
MRBLACK947's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Location: South Hill, Wa.
Oddometer: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by BashOn View Post
There's no conclusive way to determine internal condition short of destructive testing.
Well I certainly won't dispute that especially to a scientific level.

The helmet still fits very snug and gives me a mild fish face. Most definitely does not rattle around on my head. It's not ridden or stored in harsh conditions.

A certain amount of common sense has to be applied here IMO.
__________________
Steve

2014 Suzuki DL1000A V-Strom, Givi Airflow, Oxford Adventure grips, Rear fenderectomy, Hindle Carbon SlipOn. Clutch lever mod.
MRBLACK947 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 02:10 PM   #88
bomber60015
Anatomically Correct
 
bomber60015's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Chicago-ish
Oddometer: 9,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBLACK947 View Post

A certain amount of common sense has to be applied here IMO.
I would agree with this assessment, as would most.

It is the definition of common sense where folks parts ways, yes? Typically, common sense means what we wish it to ;-}
__________________
"Here is your country. Cherish these natural wonders, cherish the natural resources, cherish the history and romance as a sacred heritage, for your children and your children's children. Do not let selfish men or greedy interests skin your country of its beauty, its riches or its romance.” T.R.
bomber60015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 07:39 PM   #89
GPHusky250
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: Oceanside, CA
Oddometer: 398
Pardon if I take this thread off in a slightly different direction for a moment...but first let me say I have a couple of NOS Bell Helmets from the 70s in their original box and the liners and Styrofoam have all degraded. Any notion that Styrofoam liners last a million years is nonsense. Most of the material is at the bottom of the box.

Next...I've spent a lifetime in the TV News business and when motorcyclists crash and subsequently die...IF they were NOT wearing a helmet...the producers and reporters are sure to drive that point home to the viewers. If the deceased WAS wearing a helmet, they don't say something like..."he was wearing a helmet but died anyway". The news tends to skew reality a bit, giving the impression..."well, if he'd only been wearing a helmet, he'd be alive today". There's really no way a person with a 4 year degree from a Journalism school can speak on the merits of a motorcycle crash and what shoulda, coulda, woulda happened.

I go up to Sturgis every couple of years and if you watch the Rapid City Newspaper, they usually have a running total of accidents and deaths during the rally. Last time I was up there I took an informal look...in about half the deaths, people weren't wearing helmets...they other half was but died anyway. I think there were about 50 crashes overall with about 10-15 deaths....out of an estimated 250k bikes and 650k people.

What this tells me in real terms are a couple of things....

1. Wearing a helmet is no guarantee that you will live if you have an accident...even if it was made on Monday, shipped to your location on Tuesday and you crashed on Wednesday. Rapid deceleration of the skull causes the gelatinous brain material to shear, slosh around with resulting massive brain trama. Helmets can probably mitigate some of this up to a point, but become a human spear at 60 mph into a bridge abutment and no helmet will save you.

2. Helmets don't provide magical protection and don't have properties such as those found on Star Trek when they raise the shields. It's all about physics and the details in your particular crash. Deaths in crashes often include an aortic rupture...helmets can't save you from that.

3. The likelihood of you being involved in a crash is statistically remote. You may ride an entire lifetime and never come off your bike. My grandfather rode a Harley without a helmet all his life and died of old age.

Me...I never ride without a helmet simply because I've crashed a few times racing and I'd rather those scrapes, gouges and embedded rocks be in the helmet rather than in my scalp.

Realizing that you can die with a helmet or die without a helmet makes the painstaking argument of when should a helmet no longer be used, to me becomes less important. Again...become a human spear with a brand new helmet, or a 10 year old helmet...you're probably still dead.

Like so many things...you simply have to follow the money. Who stands to benefit the most when it comes to helmet replacement..we the riders who may never encounter an accident where the helmet actually helps us to survive...or helmet manufacturers who benefit from constantly selling you a helmet. Kind of a fox guarding the hen house thing. Can we really trust an entity that has a vested interest in selling helmets to tell us in an unbiased way at what date their helmet is useless?

And that brings me to another point...if an automobile company produces a car that over time becomes a hazard to the motoring public, they are open to a lawsuit. That being said...I wonder if there is any helmet company out there willing to step up to the plate and say..."our helmets are shit after 5 years" and you better get another one. I doubt they would take on that liability.

So as with most things, it reverts to the end user and where your comfort level resides or how deep your pockets are. Some guys may be comfortable wearing a helmet for 10 years, some 2 years, some 5 years, some 8 years...who knows. Understanding that helmets aren't made from the horn of a unicorn and they come with absolutely no guarantee that you won't die on impact in using one...the right decision is always made by each individual. Everyone is right...and maybe everyone is wrong. :)

Me, I wear them until they start getting loose on my head. That happens for me with normal use around the 7-8 year mark. Your mileage may vary.

PS. Next time you're with a helmet salesman, ask him how long you should go before getting a new helmet. When he gives you an amount of time...let's say 5 years...ask him if the helmets he is selling are shit after 5 years. He'll probably say no...then ask after 6 years? Then cut to the chase and say just when is your helmet no longer going to afford me protection. You probably won't get an answer. :)
GPHusky250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 08:47 AM   #90
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,018
Curious, where were the old Bells stored?

Still key point really is use and storage. I have one 5 year old street helmet with maybe 10,000 miles on it at best, a dual sport helmet 3 years old and maybe 5000 miles, a 15 year old MX helmet with maybe 30,000 miles on it and a new MX helmet with 100 miles. All are kept in the house usually in the closet or on a table out of the direct sunlight. I do not leave them in the garage.

The old MX helmet still feels fine, but could use new interior more due to dirt than actual break down. Still I replaced it due to time and the trim shrinking up/coming off. Seems no glue available to common man will affix it tight in place with any permanence again.

So, running 3 helmets for some years storing them away from fumes and concentrated ozone exposure should come into play. I'm figuring eventually the road helmet will go away, hopefully replaced by an Arai dual sport helmet due to fit for sure. Nothing else has the same feel. Now if it changes in the next few years I may decide different.

I did run one helmet alone for years when only street riding, padding actually started disintegrating in about 5 years. It needed changed out for sure. It seems a bit like shoes - having a few in rotation will keep them lasting longer - to an extent. Some good thought and a modicum of knowledge will aid in judgment of when to scrap out - if finding a cooler newer design doesn't cause said action sooner.

Two helmets prolongs the life - but probably still costs the same as one after another. I do multiples due to multiple uses and preferences. Off road and some dual sport uses the MX/goggles, dual sport and summer road riding uses the dual sport helmet, and cold weather road use is the street helmet. But I do like the dual sport helmet for the bill on it and good air flow.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014