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Old 04-19-2012, 11:12 AM   #76
Hubbman
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Audi buys Duc. Does Duc build a GS killer?

I know the Multistrada was supposed to be the GS alternative, but is it really?

VW wants to take on BMW on all fronts and the GS along with the S1000RR are the two bikes they needs to attack if they care to win this business. I think they have a shot at addressing the S1000 (duh), but I personally think they have a lot of work to do if they want to steal away the big GS rider crowd.

Anyone here have an opinion on this one???
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:27 PM   #77
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You are right. But the two companies have different heritages, let's hope Audi has the good sense to see that.

Ducati's MTS isn't a GS competitor, it's an upright sport bike for those disliking the crouch riding position. If Ducati were to get serious about designing a GS competitor, they'd need to 1) sort the herky jerky fueling issues at part throttle, 2) start thinking of a bike with a 19 or 21" front, and 3) build a bike that crashes without writing it off. Not to mention pillion accommodation and luggage for longer distances. That gets them in the upright tourer segment.

It does not yet buy them the Gelande-Strasse heritage which BMW (to date) has certainly earned.

Ducati has their heritage in roadracing and variants from their sportbikes.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
You are right. But the two companies have different heritages, let's hope Audi has the good sense to see that.

Ducati's MTS isn't a GS competitor, it's an upright sport bike for those disliking the crouch riding position. If Ducati were to get serious about designing a GS competitor, they'd need to 1) sort the herky jerky fueling issues at part throttle, 2) start thinking of a bike with a 19 or 21" front, and 3) build a bike that crashes without writing it off. Not to mention pillion accommodation and luggage for longer distances. That gets them in the upright tourer segment.

It does not yet buy them the Gelande-Strasse heritage which BMW (to date) has certainly earned.

Ducati has their heritage in roadracing and variants from their sportbikes.
Well Said.
My analogy is GS is for utility and function, MTS is style and fun. Two different bikes.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:02 PM   #79
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I'm hoping for an all-wheel-drive Overland Monster...

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Old 04-19-2012, 07:43 PM   #80
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Agreed, but...

I hear what your saying, but really seems like VW wants take market share from BMW anywhere they can. That's why I say it will be interesting to see if they break away from Duc's core competency (heritage) and attempt to build a true adventure bike. I agree with all the areas you feel they need to improve if they want to compete. I especially agree with your point about building a bike that can withstand a crash. Perhaps the VW team will be the right fit to get the engineers to think about durability.

could be interesting to watch, or it could just be a trophy project that VW liked the idea of owning, as many have already said this was all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
You are right. But the two companies have different heritages, let's hope Audi has the good sense to see that.

Ducati's MTS isn't a GS competitor, it's an upright sport bike for those disliking the crouch riding position. If Ducati were to get serious about designing a GS competitor, they'd need to 1) sort the herky jerky fueling issues at part throttle, 2) start thinking of a bike with a 19 or 21" front, and 3) build a bike that crashes without writing it off. Not to mention pillion accommodation and luggage for longer distances. That gets them in the upright tourer segment.

It does not yet buy them the Gelande-Strasse heritage which BMW (to date) has certainly earned.

Ducati has their heritage in roadracing and variants from their sportbikes.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:00 PM   #81
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Was looking for the Audi buys Ducati thread,
yet seemingly I've wandered into yet another GS forum.

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Old 04-19-2012, 08:13 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
I'm hoping for an all-wheel-drive Overland Monster...


you must be referring the the ural
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:40 PM   #83
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Not my fault!

Not my fault, I actually posted this in the GS section and they moved it!

Pretty lame if you ask me.




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Originally Posted by 996DL View Post
Was looking for the Audi buys Ducati thread,
yet seemingly I've wandered into yet another GS forum.

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Old 04-19-2012, 09:47 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Hubbman View Post
Not my fault, I actually posted this in the GS section and they moved it!

Pretty lame if you ask me.

Well, not a real bad place here to begin that discussion, since it arises directly from the Audi purchase.

OTOH, perhaps it deserves a new thread on its own. Problem is where? Beasts?

It is an interesting idea.

Although there are indeed lots of possible reasons why Ducati has not gone that way in the past, there are also plenty of possible reasons why, with Audi backing, they could tread that path successfully in the future.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:04 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
Ducati's MTS isn't a GS competitor, it's an upright sport bike for those disliking the crouch riding position. If Ducati were to get serious about designing a GS competitor, they'd need to 1) sort the herky jerky fueling issues at part throttle, 2) start thinking of a bike with a 19 or 21" front, and 3) build a bike that crashes without writing it off. Not to mention pillion accommodation and luggage for longer distances. That gets them in the upright tourer segment.
They would also need to take away 30% of the horsepower, and add 20-50 pounds more weight.

The MTS and the GS are very, very different types of bikes. The MTS has a very strong pavement performance heritage. I don't quite know what the GS's heritage is (people riding giant bikes places they shouldn't?), but it's not pavement performance.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:17 AM   #86
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They would also need to take away 30% of the horsepower, and add 20-50 pounds more weight.

The MTS and the GS are very, very different types of bikes. The MTS has a very strong pavement performance heritage. I don't quite know what the GS's heritage is (people riding giant bikes places they shouldn't?), but it's not pavement performance.
Don't forget Ducati would also have to learn what the words "comfortable" and "ergonomics" mean. They'd also have to stop designing their bikes based on a rider that's the size of an average 20yo Italian male, which seems somewhere around 5'9" and 155lbs.

Ducati is a street/sportbike company with a strong racing heritage so it's no surprise they get it done on the hard stuff. I'd expect nothing less.

Being a BMW and Ducati owner for most of my adult life though the last thing I'd complain about on a GS is its pavement performance. It's not supposed to be a top-end HP screamer and besides it's about as aerodynamic as a cinder-block wall so drag is going to put a damper on things in triple-digit land anyway.

If the power/weight is an issue dump the catastrophically heavy stock cat/exhaust, grab a lithium battery for it, and head to the nearest dyno center.

Bikes are so specialized now they are all a compromise in some way or another. If I want to melt faces (and be sore the rest of the day) I'll take the Ducati out... If I want to buy groceries (or parts for the Ducati), invade Bolivia, or high-five a Caribou I'll take the BMW. If I just wanted to look cool I'd buy that Guzzi I'm lusting after...
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:35 AM   #87
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This.

As I get older, knee angle is more important to me if I'm spending hours in the saddle. The difference between German and Italian bikes is that German bikes accommodate you. Italian bikes are something YOU have to accommodate.


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Don't forget Ducati would also have to learn what the words "comfortable" and "ergonomics" mean. They'd also have to stop designing their bikes based on a rider that's the size of an average 20yo Italian male, which seems somewhere around 5'9" and 155lbs.

Ducati is a street/sportbike company with a strong racing heritage so it's no surprise they get it done on the hard stuff. I'd expect nothing less.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:53 AM   #88
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Repost from the Panigale thread, but appropriate here.

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Old 04-20-2012, 01:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by hillbillypolack View Post
This.

As I get older, knee angle is more important to me if I'm spending hours in the saddle. The difference between German and Italian bikes is that German bikes accommodate you. Italian bikes are something YOU have to accommodate.
Isn't that really an overly broad statement?

The Stelvio and Multistrada are quite accommodating, while the S1000 seems like a torture rack to me.....

Pick the right tool for the job and you'll rarely go wrong, and every bike is full of compromises of one kind or another.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:18 PM   #90
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Isn't that really an overly broad statement?

The Stelvio and Multistrada are quite accommodating, while the S1000 seems like a torture rack to me.....

Pick the right tool for the job and you'll rarely go wrong, and every bike is full of compromises of one kind or another.
From my experience, it goes beyond ergos, though. On Italian bikes, you have to add 'necessary' equipment just to get things right. Gearing, ECU / PC mods, trying to get it ridable can add up.

German bikes (again, from my experience) are essentially ready to enjoy off the dealership floor.

Each bike, each owner will have their own opinions obviously. These two countries and their approaches to motorcycles are notably different to me.
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