I'm torn between a 1987 Porsche 944 and a 1989 BMW 325i

[BikePilot]

I'd do a 944, though I'd be sorta tempted to hold out for a later model if they can be found for a reasonable price up there. Even that 87 looks pretty nice, they hold up pretty well and handle exceptionally well for an 80s car.

[FPGT72]

Originally Posted by Dukeryder

Real good write up on the 944
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...e-944-profile/

Sasquatch is 100% right on that the cost of maintenance (if both have been regularly serviced with proof) between the E30 and 944 will be pretty close IF you maintain it yourself! Many shops will upcharge for a 944 even though it's got a lot of VW/Audi parts just because it has the P-car badge.

In SCCA ITS (10 years ago) the E30s used to run a lot higher in the pack the 944s, but that could have been due to the rule structure (min weights, can handicap some cars more than others).

$7K still seems like a lot for a 944, I've seen 968s for $10K that look like new cars. They're the most refined and regarded by many as one of the best handling cars ever made.


I'm still more partial to E30s but that's just me. BUT MKI Sciroccos and Rabbit GTIs with a 16V swapped in and a 3.94 or lower R&P and a Quaife LSD are even more fun

SCCA has some of the most F'ed classed cars and rules, don't go by that....and it is a very political group....very much an us vs. them group, club hates pro, everyone hates solo, prod drivers look down on IT drivers, GT drivers look down on prod...it just go so silly, I do miss running the car, but I sure don't miss the people....wish NASA was in my area.

I think the one thing you can take away from all of these comments...no matter what way you go is to get a car that is in the best shape you can and then learn to work on it yourself.

[Philander]

Thanks for all the replies and the wealth of info provided by guys in the know.
No need to kick me in the nuts, as both cars are standard transmission...

However, the E30 has been sold. The 944 has a lot of bounce on the oil pressure needle, so according to my research it's either a sending unit short, a pressure control valve at $400, an oil pick-up tube that has broken off....or the bottom end of the engine is shot.

I think I'm going to have an indie Porsche shop have a look at it for me, as this is my first Porsche. If they say it's a good buy, I'll probably get it.
First job will be to remove the Harley sticker

[Gummee!]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

But the bottom line is that if I never want to work on a car, I would buy a bicycle..

Even bicycles require maintenance. Especially if you go off-roading on em!

Once you figure out how the engineers thought, fixing issues isn't as bad as it could be. For some reason, German cars are easier for me to figure out than American cars.

M

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Philander

Thanks for all the replies and the wealth of info provided by guys in the know.
No need to kick me in the nuts, as both cars are standard transmission...

However, the E30 has been sold. The 944 has a lot of bounce on the oil pressure needle, so according to my research it's either a sending unit short, a pressure control valve at $400, an oil pick-up tube that has broken off....or the bottom end of the engine is shot.

I think I'm going to have an indie Porsche shop have a look at it for me, as this is my first Porsche. If they say it's a good buy, I'll probably get it.
First job will be to remove the Harley sticker

Mine had that at one time. It was the sending unit. If I remember right it was about a $75 unit, and a bit of a PITA to get a wrench on, but it fixed it perfectly. Very low chance of it being something major. Low end of the engine usually shows up as low oil pressure when hot (fully hot) and sitting at idle. Broken pickup tubes are rare. But it could also be one of the grounds under the dash or in the engine compartment.

Cleaning the grounds should be one of the first things on your agenda. Find all the ground lugs, pull the wires off if them, sand the connectors down and re install. German cars are picky on grounds (even the BMW )

Just remember. There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. You pay the price up front for a well sorted and cared for car, or pay for it in repairs for one that has been neglected. Buy the newest and best one you can find in your budget.

[FPGT72]

Originally Posted by Philander

However, the E30 has been sold. The 944 has a lot of bounce on the oil pressure needle, so according to my research it's either a sending unit short, a pressure control valve at $400, an oil pick-up tube that has broken off....or the bottom end of the engine is shot.

I think I'm going to have an indie Porsche shop have a look at it for me, as this is my first Porsche. If they say it's a good buy, I'll probably get it.
First job will be to remove the Harley sticker

IIRC they had a problem with getting oil to one of the mains when they where run hard....could be another car....but I am real sure it was a porsche motor in something. If that is the case run away.

Good job on having a real porsche shop check over the car....no matter what it costs to have them do it that is money very well spent.

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by FPGT72

IIRC they had a problem with getting oil to one of the mains when they where run hard....could be another car....but I am real sure it was a porsche motor in something. If that is the case run away.

Good job on having a real porsche shop check over the car....no matter what it costs to have them do it that is money very well spent.

Number 2 rod bearing. Only really shows up on cars that are tracked hard. Rarely on street driven cars. But in any case, would not show up as the poster states. It would show up as low oil pressure at idle when hot. Followed soon by knock knock knock.....

[LuciferMutt]

I'd get the 944.

parts cost is going to be pretty comparable on both the BMW and the Porsche.

Aftermarket support is very good for both.

The Porsche is much better styled vehicle, IMO, and is the true sports car of the two.

[FPGT72]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Number 2 rod bearing. Only really shows up on cars that are tracked hard. Rarely on street driven cars. But in any case, would not show up as the poster states. It would show up as low oil pressure at idle when hot. Followed soon by knock knock knock.....

Thanks for refreshing my memory

[JasonStern]

if you are young/single, go with the 944.
if you are older/have kids, go with the E30, or if you can find one, a 325iX.
either way, make sure to have a pre-purchase inspection done by a reputable shop familiar with each car. not only is it nice to know what you're getting into, but you can usually use the list of problems they find to negotiate a lower price.

Originally Posted by ddavidv

Stock, yes, the 944 will handle better. It's not really any more powerful than a M20 equipped E30 though. Now add lowering springs, sway bars that aren't made of piano wire and some stiffer shocks to the E30 and you'll school the 944 pretty easily

yes. replacing all of the weak links in one car would make it better than an unmodified other car.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

I love how many non 944 owners commenting on 944 reliability and handling. Priceless.

as a Porsche owner, I have to admit - factory parts aren't cheap. that said, BMW owners shouldn't be talking...

[ddavidv]

Originally Posted by LuciferMutt

I'd get the 944.

parts cost is going to be pretty comparable on both the BMW and the Porsche.

This is simply not true, in the same way everyone thinks BMW parts are expensive (well, at least for 3 series cars). From Pelican Parts web site, I compared the following prices on similar vintage cars (325i vs 944S):

Brake rotor 41.50/72.25
Brake caliper 265.75/389.25
Radiator 186.25/311.75
Water pump 50.50/302.00
Timing belt kit 37.75/232.50
Door weatherstrip, left 151.50/89.50
Clutch kit 379.25/709.75
Fender, oem 282.00/1365.25

I chose the parts randomly; I did not go "looking for" parts that would prove my point, because I knew I didn't have to. These are all items that one would commonly replace on an older car or one that gets tracked. 7 out of 8 times the Porsche will cost (significantly) more to repair in parts cost alone. Figure in labor on the more difficult Porsche and the price goes even higher.

If the Porsche were 3-4 times better of a car I wouldn't argue, but frankly it's not. A 911 is, but a 944 is not. And it's not really fair to compare a 968 to an E30; that's more evolved and the E36 would be a fairer fight. I'll defend Porsches all day long if they are 911's, because they deliver a superior driving experience. The 944 is a comparable driving experience to the E30 but will cost you far more.

[rocker59]

944.

You said you wanted a toy. Get the sports car.

Fun car to drive.

They built/sold a shite load of them in the 1980s. They were everywhere in my hometown (Little Rock).

Always wanted one. Today, I'd probably hold out for a 968, if I could swing it.

The 924S was pretty cool. I liked it because it was different from the pretty common 944.

Nice ones are uncommon to see now, but would still be a blast to own/drive.

[Sniper X]

Originally Posted by sailah

Both seem overpriced but maybe thats canada??

Esp the bmw.

I'd buy the porsche, way more fun, better resale perhaps. The 325, esp that vintage is a little long in the tooth

Well, the E30 325 is a great and SUPER reliable car, is probably as fast as the Porsche, and handles as well or better. It is WAY overpriced, but so is the 944. Neither have great resale value but that is true the 944 will be marginally better than the 325 if both are in perfect condition. HOWEVER, the 944 will be worlds harder to find parts for, WAY more expensive to repair, and not a ton more fun to drive.

[Sniper X]

Originally Posted by LuciferMutt

I'd get the 944.

parts cost is going to be pretty comparable on both the BMW and the Porsche.

Aftermarket support is very good for both.

The Porsche is much better styled vehicle, IMO, and is the true sports car of the two.

I hate to burst your bubble, but that 325 would spank the 944 on a track, and will vastly outlast it as well as being far less expensive to work on and keep up. However, the Porsche will get you more of the happy clam and be more fun to drive for a non sport driver.

[Fe Man]

www.searchtempest.com

good luck!

Under my belt:
1885 325e, later with 3.5 from 735i, then turbo motor from 83 745i
1987 M3
1987 535is
1971 2002 ITB

1978 930 Turbo, then built a hotter turbo motor, then built a monster 3.5 ltr carb'd, high compression, twin plug fire breathing beast.