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Old 04-18-2012, 10:53 AM   #1
CaseyJones OP
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Oilhead, versus Battle Scoot Brigade?

Okay...we got the Oilheads; we got the Scoot Squadron. I straddle the line.

I'm thinking of trading down, in my dotage years.

I've bounced back and forth between scoots and bikes; started on bikes, gave it up for 25 years, got back on a bike and along the way had a Burgman 400, about three years ago.

There was a lot I liked about it; but at the time I found I missed the manual gears, and the power of a bigger engine. So three years ago I bought a BMW R1200GS. I had the money then; have less now.

I have less agility now, too. I've had gout and arthritis and a few other issues going on...had my first attack of gout while traveling from Michigan to Texas on the BMW. That's a scary feeling...alluva sudden there's a question whether you're going to be able to even RIDE the thing. Stuck out in the middle of nowhere, with medical issues.

In one move, I sold my smaller 250 bike...and last fall got a lead on a Xingyue Burgman clone. Got it; love it...I can't trust it because it's a cheap knock-off; but it's eminently satisfactory. Except for the brakes, which take high effort and grab.

Now...I see Suzuki is looking to clear out their Burgman inventory, with their 0 percent financing. Dad gommit, I'm tempted...a new 400 Burgman with ABS...the BMW taught me the absolute value of ABS systems; they're essential in the rain.

So I'm considering trading down. Buying the Burgman on credit; selling the BMW; there's a considerable market for used ones. Value around $11,000.

But...I'm wondering if, expecially if I don't come apart physically like I expect...if I'll be making a mistake I'll regret. We got the Oilhead Brigade, who'll be convinced I'm committing heresy...but times change, everything has a season, yada yada.

Thoughts? Will the Chinese Burgman clone have ANY value? Since I have more than one bike, maybe I should just use the clone as my beater/commuter...
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:15 PM   #2
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The one big advantage the BMW has over any maxi scooter is the suspension to handle some rough/dirt roads at a reasonable speed and without ground clearance issues. How much do you ride off road on your BMW?? The BMW also has much more power and better handling. Do you really use that and/or will you miss it? Answer those questions and your decision should be easier to make.

I used to have an R1100GS. If I win the lottery I"ll probably get another GS. Until then I'll make do with a couple of scooters and a couple of smaller, lighter and paid for dual sport bikes for my off road adventures. I paid less for all four than one new 1200GS.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:25 PM   #3
CaseyJones OP
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That's a good point. I used to live at the end of a three-mile dirt road; that was one reason I started thinking of dual-sports. The BMW gave no quarter on road manners while being apparently rugged enough for some off-roading.

Right this minute, off-road capacity matters not at all. I'm no track rider. I like the utilitarian style of the GS but not enough itself to hang onto it.

But, but, but...the times, they are a-changin'. Pavement in the years ahead isn't going to increase in quality; and if things to completely to Hades, the rugged construction might make it a workable end-of-the-world ride.

If one is needed. Lawd knows how things will go down.

So...I dunno.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:19 PM   #4
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My next suggestion is to go out and buy the wining lottery ticket so that you won't have to decide
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:10 PM   #5
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I've got a GS also, but it's not getting much use. I've got arthritis in my right shoulder, and a couple hours on the beemer and I'm done in. Scooters seem to hit the mark for me for usability and fun.

As Klaviator knows I'm shopping for a newer scooter to haul on my RV. I have a feeling I'm going to find a lot more use on a good road worthy scooter than the BMW.

If I could only have 1 vehicle I think I'd be shopping for the new Piaggio BV 350 touring.

Once I have the new scooter I will likely put the R1200GS up for sale. Hate to see it sit.....Just think your decision through- it ain't a tattoo- if you make the wrong decision you can always sell and get another Dual Sport.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:25 PM   #6
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I faced a similar dilemma a couple of years ago where the pain induced by getting on and off my beloved Ultra Glide just was no longer worth the price. I fell off a roof many years ago and landed on my ass after falling 17 feet - I got out of the hospital 5 days later and found out I was 'shortened' up by 1.5". I went from 5'10" to 5'8 1/2" give or take. While that was bad enough the worst was yet to come - 35 years later and I have arthritis in my back and both hips and shoulders. 5 or 10 years ago if you'd told me I'd be riding a scooter in 2012 I'd have laughed at you.

I ain't laughing any more.

I had to 'divorce' the Harley before I could sell it. I rode it very sparingly the past 2 years - 1500 miles total. It was time to face reality and sell it. I sold it last month and turned around and made an offer on a very clean 2008 Burgman 650. I'm back to enjoying something I've been doing for 47 years now and look forward to many years more of 2 wheel enjoyment. A few of my old Harley buddies will hardly talk to me - thats fine - they'll have to face the same thing I did in the years to come since none of them (that I know of) are getting any younger. All of them have aches and pains and complain mightily - and their day of reckoning will come. And one more Harley will be put up for sale.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:37 PM   #7
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Yeah, I'm an ex Harley rider that rides a scooter now due to having too many birthdays. I just can't swing my leg over a motorcycle any more. You do what you got to do.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #8
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I'm still young enough and in good enough shape to ride any motorcycle out there and I still own two motorcycles. As much as I love my motorcycles my scooters are what I ride almost every day. I won't say they are more fun than motorcycles, they are just more practical, convenient, and fun for the type of riding I get to do most of the time.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #9
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Im not sure if you are ready to be a scoot guy if you have to ask

After 32+ years, I went scoot and never looked back. You sort of know when
you are ready.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hex nut View Post
Yeah, I'm an ex Harley rider that rides a scooter now due to having too many birthdays. I just can't swing my leg over a motorcycle any more. You do what you got to do.
Actually, even if you're old like me, you can mitigate the aches and pains quite a bit by taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 PER DAY along with 4 to 6 fish oil caps per day. Might take a month for it to happen. Vitacost has it on line. Plus, it greatly reduces the chance of heart attack or stroke! Ten four
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:23 PM   #11
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Health issues put me on a scoot. I've got a degenerative condition that affects the big joints and the spine along with some other crap that's affecting the heart. I'm falling apart.

I'm currently on a HD as my main ride since I'm between flare-ups but I know the clock is ticking in terms of how long I've got in terms of being able to ride it.

That said, until I'm totally off a standard motorcycle for good (a hack is an option), I can ride a scoot when I'm really feeling rough, alternating between it and the bike. So perhaps it's not quite all-or-nothing...maybe you can keep a small, light m/c in the stable, or add one in after you pick out the scoot that works best for you.

But don't worry about giving up too much when you go to scoots--they're a blast and I think you'll appreciate them that much more for enabling you to ride with less pain.`

Others with more experience with the clones will chime in on the specific bike you're looking at. But have a look around the forum--plenty of good scoot reviews here, and there are some good ride reports in the RR forum as well.

FWIW I've got a Piaggio MP3 and a Stella.

PS: welcome to scoots
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:17 PM   #12
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Damn! I am not as old as most of your riding histories, but I still love my scooters. I rode a sport bike for a month or two and considered a new Honda 700nsx, but in the end could not give up my scooter.

As far as Chinese bikes go, I have had four. If this is a hobby the cheap Chinese bikes are great, like a Harley, part of the fun is working on them.......every weekend. I had a Roketa 150, Magrac 150, and a Summit 250. The 150s and the Summit were very "Chinese" in construction. I had to replace the water pump on the Summit (Helix Clone) with 800mi on it and the plastic just didn't fit right anywhere from the time it was new. I sold it to my Brother in law hoping he would wreck it and he is still riding it three years and two batteries later. Those three were crappy, but good for the price since none cost me more than $1000

I also have a CF MOTO 250 that I have put 8Kmi on with 0 problems. It is NOT Japanese quality but is pretty damn close and Honda parts fit it-this was confirmed by the dealer that services it and comments on the surprising quality. I recently bought a used Majesty and can honestly say that I understand why people say buy a used Japanese bike instead of a new Chinese one.

I would not be afraid of another Chinese bike if I inspected it first, but they come in such a large range of quality that I would be hesitant of anything but a CF Moto, or Linhai for my only bike.

ALSO know going in that Chinese means that you will probably never get more than $500 out of it after it has some miles on the clock.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creighta View Post
. . .

I also have a CF MOTO 250 that I have put 8Kmi on with 0 problems. It is NOT Japanese quality but is pretty damn close and Honda parts fit it-this was confirmed by the dealer that services it and comments on the surprising quality. I recently bought a used Majesty and can honestly say that I understand why people say buy a used Japanese bike instead of a new Chinese one.

I would not be afraid of another Chinese bike if I inspected it first, but they come in such a large range of quality that I would be hesitant of anything but a CF Moto, or Linhai for my only bike.

ALSO know going in that Chinese means that you will probably never get more than $500 out of it after it has some miles on the clock.
On THIS note, in Australia recently a CF Moto JetMax 250i, along with a Piaggio's X7 300, and Kymco's Downtown 300i with ABS, were taken on a group Test Ride over 1000 km's distance:

Our epic trip from Melbourne to Sydney, over 1000 km's of hard riding.

. . . and again . . .

CFMoto JetMax 250 reviewed on marathon trip


What I find of particular interest, is that this Jetmax 250i wears a similar diameter tyre, both front and rear, to the Burgman 650.-
Tyres front 120/70-15 230kPa Tubeless
Tyres rear 140/60-14 280kPa Tubeless

When one encounters roads of indifferent quality, one doesn't really want "hoops" too small to negotiate the terrain.
Again, twin-front discs plus rear disc would be uncommon equipment on scooters of this displacement.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

One other aspect- if you are planning to keep riding into your "sunset" years, it may be wise to check if the 'scoot' you're hankering to acquire is Sidecar, or Trike, friendly:





With those options you have further bodily loss-of-strength & joint function demands . . . . covered!
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:25 PM   #14
CaseyJones OP
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I have seen those scoot-trikes; or scoot-quads (center rear wheel remains on many kits). And where I'm at, Harley Country...there's a lot of silver-heads on H-D trikes

I won't go there. When I can't hold it up, I'll hang it up.

Why? The thrill of riding, to me, is the banking into sweepers; the control of the ride with the hips and shoulders. The ability to take curves twice the speed cages can...cages, yes, and trikes.

To turn a trike, is like turning a snowmobile or quad - only trickier, because it's all the tippier. I never did any snowmobiling or four-wheeling; it's not a memory I have. And holding on not an exhilarating memory.

I'll hang on...from BMW, to Burgman, to 150cc-scoot to Vespa if it comes to that. But when I can't do that, it's lights out.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:40 PM   #15
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Are you certain that you'll want to be still taking corners fast in your twilight years?





And then, there are Threewheelers which bank into corners!

The same thing with sidecars - - - - some types retain the"Lean":

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