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Old 05-12-2012, 05:19 PM   #91
Lost Rider
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The Rukka Armas Hi-viz suit is CE approved for personal protection for professional use.
They don't specify what level though.

http://www.rukka.com/mxl-fashion/ruk...cument&Cat=2_3
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Rider View Post
The Rukka Armas Hi-viz suit is CE approved for personal protection for professional use.
They don't specify what level though.

http://www.rukka.com/mxl-fashion/ruk...cument&Cat=2_3
They don't specify which standard, either, which makes the label rather worthless... It sounds like they used to have "EN13595" on that page some time ago, but not anymore.

I'll email them to confirm.

EDIT: Found the answer in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
Rukka's response: We have one suit, called ArmaX, to which has been granted EC type examination certificate but it concerns only ArmaX model. The product complies with Directive 89/686/EEC which indicates that the jacket and trousers have been accepted for professional use. It has not been constructed EN 13595.
There's more of that story in the thread (see page 2&3), some of it positively outrageous. Bottom line is, the standards they quote are largely irrelevant, and the suit is neither certified nor able to pass the abrasion tests, even at L1.

A very solid Hall of Shame nomination for Rukka.

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Old 05-13-2012, 06:08 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
This does make sense, thanks for pointing it out. Updated.

Their website is also rather vague, now that I look at it. I'm starting to wonder if they're not playing the "passed some/all abrasion tests, never tested the rest" game, too.

.
I will take a pic of the C EVO jeans - think it is actually CE L1 passed - The label shows it passes all 3 areas @ level 1. I have not seen drayko renegate in person so i cant be sure - but looking at the pictures - i am quite certain that it is the same as C EVO from Draggin.

The important differences between C EVO ( and presumably Drayko Renegate) and rest of their range is that the

1) kevlar linings covers the whole jean (will be a bit hot in tropic or sub-tropic summer); The linings is one piece going around the leg and stitched to the jeana, ONLY, on the inside of lega- this is crucially different from the rest of the range where kevlar lining is a flat piece being stitched to both outside and inside of the jeans leg - on impact, it is quite possible for the stitching on the outside of the legs to tear, rendering the kevlar linings as well as jeans useless in minimise abrasion.

2) inclusion of of hip and knee armor and respective pockets rather than just provision of velco ;

3) hidden double stitching on the outside of jeans; AND

4) elastic loop to stop the jeans from riding up. - Although this is only possible in your tug your jeans in your boots - so it was a feature design to pass CE certification requirement but not very practical in terms how people generally wear them,

--------
I cant find the actual test result either, but i did find one they test back in 2008 for abrasion - shows they pass the CE test for abrasion - note the jean in the photo appears to be different from the C-EVO which Draggin claim to be CE certified. double stitching on sides vs hidden stitching on C-EVO http://www.motorland.ru/1mc2010/img/...ech_report.pdf

AceRider01 screwed with this post 05-13-2012 at 06:17 AM Reason: provide link
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:15 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
......................

There's more of that story in the thread (see page 2&3), some of it positively outrageous. Bottom line is, the standards they quote are largely irrelevant, and the suit is neither certified nor able to pass the abrasion tests, even at L1.

A very solid Hall of Shame nomination for Rukka.

Australian importer confirmed that it has not passed any of the tests in EN13595 when i asked him a while back on a local motorcycle show....

Maybe i am naive, but i am often astonished by the deliberate efforts manufactures deployed to give the impression their clothings have been CE certified. Rukka is not the only one in this respect
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:18 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRider01 View Post
<<<< Drayko / Draggin Jeans (Australia). Note that "Draggin' Jeans" (US) is a completely different company!


If you carefully read the Drayko Jeans website - only Drayko Renegade is CE approved. Drayko Drift, for example is NOT.



Pictures show Drayko Renegade is C-EVO from Draggin Jeans, but available also in black as well as the normal blue colour.


C-Evo (Draggin) & Renegade (Drayko) got the CE L1 certification because the proprietary kevlar linings are apply to the whole of the jeans and not just on impact area likes others in their product range




I ordered both Drift and Renegade. Ended up keeping Renegade because the were very plain looking, perfect to wear to work. As far as I remember, the Kevlar linings in two were pretty much identical. I think both of them had CE markings on their labels, although I'm not 100% sure. Thickness and density of the Kevlar linings in Drayko is way superior of any "mainstream" jeans I tried- A*, Icon, Teknic, Joe Rocket, etc.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:34 PM   #96
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One more for the list....

Level 2 Jacket - Klover Tekno

http://www.webbikeworld.com/eicma-20...-tekno-jacket/
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:07 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
Thickness and density of the Kevlar linings in Drayko is way superior of any "mainstream" jeans I tried- A*, Icon, Teknic, Joe Rocket, etc.
Just to add to this, one interesting detail in the report above: the "Red Route" jeans had all samples taken from the reinforced areas, yet still failed miserably. But then, the "Draggin" only barely made it to L1...

I sure wouldn't mind seeing some popular workwear (Carhartt and whatnot) thrown in there for comparison. I mean, regular jeans not being terribly protective is rather obvious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropoint View Post
One more for the list....

Level 2 Jacket - Klover Tekno

http://www.webbikeworld.com/eicma-20...-tekno-jacket/
Already in the list, under "Clover" :)
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:19 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
I ordered both Drift and Renegade. Ended up keeping Renegade because the were very plain looking, perfect to wear to work. As far as I remember, the Kevlar linings in two were pretty much identical. I think both of them had CE markings on their labels, although I'm not 100% sure. Thickness and density of the Kevlar linings in Drayko is way superior of any "mainstream" jeans I tried- A*, Icon, Teknic, Joe Rocket, etc.
Not sure if the Drayko Drift (but not Renegade) now on sale in australian market is the same as the one you have, but in the australian market version of Drift, the yellow Kevlar lining only covers the critical area and not the entire jean like C EVO.

Yes the linings are the same across all draggin jeans and is more substantial than the brands you mentioned and just about all the others on the australian market.

If you enlarge the following link on C-EVO, you will see the CE label - it looks legitimate to me looks like they pass EN13595-1 requirements with notation in the box noting the 3 tests are passed at L1
http://www.dragginjeans.net/product/c-evo%20for%20men

Still both Drayko and Draggin provides rather deceptive advertising by printing CE on their other ranges or by stating that " Draggin - the only CE approved jean manufacturer in the world..." giving the perception that all their range are CE approved.
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:18 PM   #99
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Quote:
Still both Drayko and Draggin provides rather deceptive advertising by printing CE on their other ranges or by stating that " Draggin - the only CE approved jean manufacturer in the world..." giving the perception that all their range are CE approved.
Yeah, they got me there... I really should have known better.


...The Italian Motosicurezza blog is an effing goldmine of information. Major kudos to Alex for all the legwork. More Hall of Shame entries: Ixon, Dainese.

I believe Alpinestars is guilty of the same "Category 1 gardening glove" BS. Will double-check in store sometime.

Also added an airbag section. Being only a draft, there's no certification yet, but I feel it's worthwhile to track the progress in this area.
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:50 PM   #100
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CE-marking for gloves

Interesting info about CE-marking for motorcycle gloves. It transpires that not all gloves with a CE mark are certified for protection ... most are only CE certified for protection from the weather!

Currently, there are three types of motorcycle glove in Europe:
  • No CE mark: Motorcyclists’ garments and additional protection such as gloves for private use as long as only protection against climatic conditions are provided.
  • CE Category 1: Motorcyclists’ garments and additional protection (e.g. gloves, boots) only protecting against climatic conditions for professional use. This is useless! Unfortunately, it's the most commonly used CE mark found on gloves today.
  • CE Category 2: Motorcyclists’ garments and additional protection (e.g. gloves, footwear) for which additional protection is provided (e.g. airbag, impact protectors for limb or back, pads for elbow or shoulders, protection against cuts and abrasion, …). At the time of writing this, the only two gloves that are certified to this standard are the Halvarssons Safety and Racer Stratos gloves. Velocity Gear's gloves have been much debated elsewhere on this forum, but the company data indicates that its seam burst and abrasion resistance would pass the Category 2 test.
Additionally, the CE standards for motorcycle gloves are about to change. See the 'Questions and Answers' section here: http://www.motolegends.com/gloves/ra...ove-black.html


According to SATRA, the motorcycle glove standard (EN 13594) is under revision, but the new version will not be available until 2013 at the earliest.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:18 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino View Post
Interesting info about CE-marking for motorcycle gloves. It transpires that not all gloves with a CE mark are certified for protection ... most are only CE certified for protection from the weather!

Currently, there are three types of motorcycle glove in Europe:
There seems to be one more type: a glove certified for "impact protection" at the knuckle, and nothing else. (Advertised as "CE-certified" or something to that effect, of course.) I am worried that the Stratos glove is, in fact, one of those - I haven't been able to get an answer directly from Racer.

My understanding is that motorcycle gloves, in principle, can only be certified under Category 2 - else they have to drop anything that implies "protection". "Category 1 motorcycle gloves" shouldn't even exist...
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:37 AM   #102
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"certification" nonsense..

My apologies for just dropping in again, I've been stretched thin lately.

Oh, yes; the impact "ce" certified glove ;) the other way around the consumers back..

Good job on spelling out the differences in claimed "CE" certified gloves and gear. I was aware of the impact work around some manufacturers use but I hadn't seen the category 1- climactic nonsense..

It's why I still believe the data is what matters, the certification; not so much

In our previous exchange you said:

Quote:
...Are you asking whether I've read the page linked in the OP, essentially? Yes, I have. A glove that does not have evidence of having been tested against - and passing - all the tests in the specs is not a "CE spec" glove. I see zero room for argument here.

My gloves meet Specific CE specs, thus they are a CE spec glove. I state those spec. tests on my website specifically and don't claim to have a certification.

** Anyone interested in a European Distributorship, with serious intentions, please feel free to contact me.**

This is the only instance where I would follow through with the remaining chemical, dye, fastness and restraint testing.

As a rider myself, I care about the rough stuff; seam burst, cut resistance, tear resistance and abrasion resistance.
As for restraint; I was unaware that was an actual "test". I thought it was an ergonomic and fixation check. Either way, I go through specifc steps to ensure my glove straps will not tear out easily, something that should be in the new revision imo.. Getting a glove to not slip off is easy enough but what does that glove do for you if the fixation straps tear out?

I believe you are correct in regard to the Stratos glove, by the way...


Excellent description of the new changes to en13594:

- “Dye fastness”: removal of the requirement; about time...

- “Restraint”: values of resistance of the glove from slipping off divided into two levels and change of the test cones used during the test

---how about a strap fixation strength test? sheesh...

- “Tear resistance”: introduction of different minimum values for the two levels depending on the three main areas of the glove (palm, back and fourchettes);

- “Stitching resistance”: removal of the burst test method in compliance with EN 13595-3 and difference in the minimum values of the fourchettes as against the other parts of the glove;

- “Cut resistance”: application of the test only to the areas of the palm and back;

- “Resistance to abrasion from impact”: placing of the test area only on the outer part of the palm;

----Really? Only on the outer part of the palm? bologna...

- “Impact attenuation protective area”: introduction of the value of minimum surface of knuckle protection for different glove sizes;

- “Impact attenuation”: introduction of attenuation values for the two performance levels;

“Pictogram”: introduction of the level of protection of the glove (1 or 2), of the optional symbol of knuckle protection (KP) and of the year of the applied Standard under the pictogram

Lastly, I have said this several times on this board;

Anyone able or willing to help me get our gloves in the next RIDE magazine glove review, I'll give you $500.00 worth of free gear ;)


I want to see our Formula glove specifically, tested against the "world". Any glove, from any manufacturer. I'm willing to put my reputation on the line (whatever that's worth) and say that no other motorcycle glove on this planet will outperform our gloves in the below testing requirements.

Outperform means; taking 3 of the 4 categories..


1-cut resistance
2-tear resistance
3-seam burst resistance
4-abrasion resistance


RIDE magazine email address below



ride@ride.co.uk


Do it now or



Here are the OLD Formula's. The 012's are all black, photos to come.


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Old 06-17-2012, 12:34 PM   #103
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My gloves meet Specific CE specs, thus they are a CE spec glove. I state those spec. tests on my website specifically and don't claim to have a certification.
Hahaha.

Maybe all those manufacturers with partially-failed L1 pants/jackets should start claiming "CE spec", too - after all, every single test is a "specific CE spec", and most of them did meet a few!

I am also troubled by the fact that the gloves you sell now are, apparently, not quite the same as what you sent for testing, yet all are claimed to be "tested".

You can make up as many excuses as you like; at the end of the day, you are still misleading consumers greatly. Personally, I highly recommend you hire a PR manager of some kind. Perhaps he/she would be able to explain how making a quick buck by misleading your customers won't do you any favours in the long term.
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:27 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
Hahaha.

Maybe all those manufacturers with partially-failed L1 pants/jackets should start claiming "CE spec", too - after all, every single test is a "specific CE spec", and most of them did meet a few!

I am also troubled by the fact that the gloves you sell now are, apparently, not quite the same as what you sent for testing, yet all are claimed to be "tested".

You can make up as many excuses as you like; at the end of the day, you are still misleading consumers greatly. Personally, I highly recommend you hire a PR manager of some kind. Perhaps he/she would be able to explain how making a quick buck by misleading your customers won't do you any favours in the long term.
I just don't see you two sharing a beer anytime soon
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:48 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
Hahaha.

Maybe all those manufacturers with partially-failed L1 pants/jackets should start claiming "CE spec", too - after all, every single test is a "specific CE spec", and most of them did meet a few!

I am also troubled by the fact that the gloves you sell now are, apparently, not quite the same as what you sent for testing, yet all are claimed to be "tested".

You can make up as many excuses as you like; at the end of the day, you are still misleading consumers greatly. Personally, I highly recommend you hire a PR manager of some kind. Perhaps he/she would be able to explain how making a quick buck by misleading your customers won't do you any favours in the long term.
You make some good points, but it's not like you can guarantee anything with any of the big names either. I can say that compared to Held, Racer, Lee Parks & Rev'it gloves that I've owned these are definitely at minimum equal in terms of comfort, and way beefier everywhere that counts. These are nice gloves. Will they perform as well as VG claims? I hope to never find out. For now, call me a believer
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