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Old 04-24-2012, 06:23 AM   #46
bikersnotz
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I might suggest some sort of rider education program, in one of its many forms. If its his first time on a bike, he will get some real experience, hopefully get a feel for real bike. He may find small bikes surprising, or he may really want a bigger bike. But hopefully he will be better than he was before he started out. And you usually get a discount on all of your vehicle insurance.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:39 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ADVBMR View Post
I dunno, I think it speaks volumes about how little his friend knows about riding. The guy is a total noob and wants a bike that goes like crazy. Seems reasonable to me that his friend wants him to ease into riding. One of the first things to master is not going into turns too hot. Maybe not a "guaranteed crash" but any crash for a guy lighting up an 1100 Monster would likely be a bad crash.

OP - you can't make the guy use his reason. You can give him advice, whether type of bike or gear, but in the end he's going to make his own decisions. He might buy a hot bike, he might not wear a helmet or gear. But if he does that, he will likely find his friend - you - won't find riding with him a whole lot of fun.

I agree. I was not speaking to the bike itself. It goes without saying that a smaller displacement and easier to ride bike would be better for a n00b to learn on. An easier to ride bike would also allow for quicker developement of his riding skills.


My statement was directed at the "Guaranteed Crash" MYTH!

It is just as stupid as the often parroted "It's not if but when" BULLSHIT!

I don't like to hear it. The majority of riders NEVER crash. It is not impossible to start out on an 1100 Ducati and do fine with it and not crash.

A thinking rational human is the key to safe riding. It is the nut holding the bars that makes a motorcycle dangerous.

So unbunch your panties mrphotoman... I bleed Red just like everyone else.
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DAKEZ screwed with this post 04-24-2012 at 07:45 AM
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:53 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by BikePilot View Post
While the M1100 isn't ideal, its really not all that bad. Its not a fast bike, has a pretty linear power curve, fairly neutral ergonomics that are good for control, is compact, light, easy to control, etc. Its a much better first bike than a 600cc supersport (and considerably slower) and it seems every fool in the country thinks a supersport is the way to start. Displacement isn't really the deciding factor, don't know why everyone says "600-750" and similar nonsense. You really think a GSXR750, any 600cc supersport or a 749 will be easier to ride than the big lazy desmo-powered m1100? Keeping a peaky 120hp 600cc four under control is a lot more difficult than a low and slow revving 90hp long-stroke twin.
Only one post in the thread has mentioned a supersports bike, and the displacement wasn't mentioned.

Most have suggested older 400cc-600cc standards, and some (like me) 650cc modern standards.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:54 AM   #49
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I think your statement "how little you know about riding" speaks volumes about how little you know about the risks of crashing.
Any newb buying any 1100 cc bike as a first ride is just plain dumb.
Really? Any 'n00b?

The cc's of a motorcycle do not dictate if it is going to crash or not. Please tell us from your vast experience why you feel a right to force an adult to purchase and ride a bike of your choosing and not his own.

The "risks of crashing" (?) Do tell!

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Old 04-24-2012, 07:56 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Really? Any 'n00b?

The cc's of a motorcycle do not dictate if it is going to crash or not. Please tell us from your vast experience why you feel a right to force an adult to purchase and ride a bike of your choosing and not his own.

The "risks of crashing" (?) Do tell!

In the UK, statistically 30 times more likely to die on the roads than a car driver, can't speak for the USA.

I'm sorry Dakez, you're a motorcyle dealer, you have an in-built bias here to shift units.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:10 AM   #51
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Is your friend tall,short
Long legs
Old,young
Sporty
Fat,skinny
Can I date him lol
Anyway
What sort of riding does
He want to get into
Give him this questionar
Can't spell
Go to mr dakez bike
Shop
Show him some bikes
Just my2c

Cheers
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:15 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
I agree. I was not speaking to the bike itself. It goes without saying that a smaller displacement and easier to ride bike would be better for a n00b to learn on. An easier to ride bike would also allow for quicker developement of his riding skills.


My statement was directed at the "Guaranteed Crash" MYTH!

It is just as stupid as the often parroted "It's not if but when" BULLSHIT!

I don't like to hear it. The majority of riders NEVER crash. It is not impossible to start out on an 1100 Ducati and do fine with it and not crash.

A thinking rational human is the key to safe riding. It is the nut holding the bars that makes a motorcycle dangerous.

So unbunch your panties mrphotoman... I bleed Red just like everyone else.
LMAO! First off I never said anything about a guaranteed crash or many other things you so carefully listed above. As for a newb rider running out and buying a big bike thinking anything else will be too small, then making a mistake and crashing or dropping the bike or being scared of it and then becoming frustrated and selling the bike shortly thereafter is more the norm than the exception. Just like I stated earlier, it is no different than giving a 15 year old with no driving experience a 600whp car and being ignorant enough to think everything will be fine. Yeah it may work out but the chances are much greater that it will turn out bad.

A common newb mistake that more often than not ends up with the rider selling the bike and not learning the proper control and all the fun that is to be had with motorcycles.

Oh well, some people like to do stupid things and some like to do things the right way. What can you do.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:19 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by ray_rev View Post
In the UK, statistically 30 times more likely to die on the roads than a car driver, can't speak for the USA.

I'm sorry Dakez, you're a motorcyle dealer, you have an in-built bias here to shift units.
Actually you are exactly wrong here.

Even though my first post here stirred controversy... I am in agreement with the OP and think how he is attempting to guide his friend is admirable. It was only the "Guaranteed Crash" that I object to. You should RUN away from ANY dealer that is only interested in pushing units out the door.

Had the OP and his friend walked into where I work I would have been in agreement with the OP and STRONGLY encouraged the n00b in a different direction. Up to and to the point of actually not selling him the bike. Yes, you read that right. I will NEVER sell a bike to someone if I think it is too much bike for them.

I like people and I like riding. I am not interested in seeing anyone get anything but enjoyment out of riding.

I once refused to sell an FZ1 to a young man that was a total n00b. He was 6'3" and weight in at about 210lbs. The next day his Father came in and wrote me a check for the bike. He thanked me for looking out for his son... Said another dealer was actually $400 less than I was but they didn't give a rip about anything but the sale.

He assured me about how his son would be trained and that he would never be allowed to ride with out Dad being there on another bike. He also had a well put together plan of the training he and his son were going to go through together. (BRC, Intermediate, Rider Skills, Advanced, Track day... The works)

Dad & Son came in about every other week to give me progress reports and ask questions. (Why would the trainer say this/that...) They are now both very proficient riders.

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DAKEZ screwed with this post 04-24-2012 at 08:29 AM
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:20 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Actually you are exactly wrong here.

Even though my first post here stirred controversy... I am in agreement with the OP and think how he is attempting to guide his friend is admirable. It was only the "Guaranteed Crash" that I object to. You should RUN away from ANY dealer that is only iterested in pushing units out the door.

Had the OP and his friend walked into where I work I would have been in agreement with the OP and STRONGLY encouraged the n00b in a different direction. Up to and to the point of actually not selling him the bike.

I like people and I like riding. I am not interested in seeing anyone get anything but enjoyment out of riding.

I once refused to sell an FZ1 to a young man that was a total n00b. He was 6'3" and weight in at about 210lbs. The next day his Father came in and wrote me a check for the bike. He thanked me for looking out for his son... Said another dealer was actually $400 less than I was but they didn't give a rip about anything but the sale.

He assured me about how his son would be trained and that he would never be allowed to ride with out Dad being there on another bike. He also had a well put together plan of the training he and his son were going to go through together. (BRC, Intermediate, Rider Skills, Advanced, Track day... The works)

Dad & Son came in about every other week to give me progress reports and ask questions. (Why would the trainer say this/that...) They are now both very proficient riders.

Glad to hear it, sincerely.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:21 AM   #55
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Nevertheless it has been arbitrarily adopted by every developed country in the world with the sole exception of USA. Everywhere else new riders are forced to start on 'small bikes', but perhaps American teenagers have much higher level of self-control and American riders in general have a much greater affinity with motorcycles than Spaniards, Italians or Australians? Hmm... you certainly couldn't tell by their results in MotoGP or WSBK, or by any statistics related to road accidents.

sad but true. That seems to be the common mentality of the fat overweight harley riders (the posers, not the real riders). They think nothing short of a 1000lb 1300cc (35hp lol) harley will do and then they proceed to drop the bike every 10 feet and then sell it a month later.

Same thing with noob sportbike riders, they think a 600cc is "too small" and only the most powerful liter bike out there will be fast enough for them. Come on now, everyone knows that a 600cc sportbike is only suited for people no taller than 4'5" and the liter bikes are for real men that are 6' to 12' tall. The cc of a bike somehow relates to how big the actual bike is, not the motor.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:28 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
I don't like to hear it. The majority of riders NEVER crash.
Dakez, I don't doubt the sincerity of that statement, but it makes me wonder about a few things.

Where did you get that information?
What type of riding does it include or exclude?
What does it assume for the average "riding career" length?

And so on. I'd love to see some studies about this. I do know that annual figures vary for crashes per thousand motorcycle miles travelled, but am not sure I have ever seen stats for "average rider" crashes.

Please do share.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:32 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by mrphotoman View Post
sad but true. That seems to be the common mentality of the fat overweight harley riders (the posers, not the real riders). They think nothing short of a 1000lb 1300cc (35hp lol) harley will do and then they proceed to drop the bike every 10 feet and then sell it a month later.
Quoted only to show you for what you are.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:33 AM   #58
bikersnotz
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Shock value photos and anecdotes are usually not an effective means of dissuasion. Telling him he's going to drop it is like "you'll shoot your eye out".
A better revision of my earlier thought, maybe you could convince his wife to sign him up for a more intensive riding school? Something that helps him become an educated buyer and give him some proper skills on such a bike should he still want it. Better use of the money, in my opinion, and then he can buy the bike he wants.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:44 AM   #59
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Dakez, I don't doubt the sincerity of that statement, but it makes me wonder about a few things.
It is through polls, statistics and studies done. As you know I frequent these forums and have an interest beyond what might be considered normal as to the aspects of rider safety. I actually read vision studies and braking studies and such. I get a kick out of how the NTSB critiques and pokes fun at the studies that the IIHS put out.

From polls, stats and studies the numbers always seem to come in between 60% to 65% of riders never crash.

(as we all know... off pavement doesn't count)
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:48 AM   #60
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From polls, stats and studies the numbers always seem to come in between 60% to 65% of riders never crash.
Okay, so I'm in the other 35-40%. But I've been doing it for 35+ years.

How many of the 60-65% of non-crashers put less than 1000 miles per year on a bike, or ride for only 2-3 years of their entire life before giving it up? I'm just wondering "out loud" and not really expecting answers or stats. I do think, however, that if one does something long enough, that the law of averages is more likely to have its inevitable effect.
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