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Old 04-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #61
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Okay, so I'm in the other 35-40%. But I've been doing it for 35+ years.

How many of the 60-65% of non-crashers put less than 1000 miles per year on a bike, or ride for only 2-3 years of their entire life before giving it up? I'm just wondering "out loud" and not really expecting answers or stats. I do think, however, that if one does something long enough, that the law of averages is more likely to have its inevitable effect.

Likely many. Sadly there is no clear or even not clear studies to go off of that address years of riding and miles per year. (at least none I have been able to find)

As to the law of averages. It gets reset every ride you know.

I too am in the 35-40% No collisions but I have been down four times due to road contaminates. Hundreds of times off-road.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:59 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Okay, so I'm in the other 35-40%. But I've been doing it for 35+ years.

How many of the 60-65% of non-crashers put less than 1000 miles per year on a bike, or ride for only 2-3 years of their entire life before giving it up? I'm just wondering "out loud" and not really expecting answers or stats. I do think, however, that if one does something long enough, that the law of averages is more likely to have its inevitable effect.
I could be wrong on this, I'm afraid I don't have a source, but istr that the UK statistic was, on average, a collision every 20,000 miles travelled.

The 'average' UK rider does 4,000 to 6,000 per year; I think the figure is more like 2,000 in the USA. I'm guessing this is road-only mileage.

There is a caveat of course, in that UK highways are amongst the safetest roads to travel on (in terms of collions per mile) but of course any collision is more likely to be fatal. We have soul-crushing congestion here, making it likely that an 'off' at low speed is a SMIDSY incident (Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You).

I'd be really interested to hear USA stats too, especially with varying helmet laws by state.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #63
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I agree. I was not speaking to the bike itself. It goes without saying that a smaller displacement and easier to ride bike would be better for a n00b to learn on. An easier to ride bike would also allow for quicker developement of his riding skills...
I think this is the point you shoulod focus on with your friend: the best bike to develop skills. If he is hooked on the Ducati brand, don't ry to talk him out of it. The heart wants what the heart wants.

Instead, talk him into a cheaper Ducati. That bike will likely be the smaller displacement Monster. It stands to reason that a person will feel more comfortable learning, and advance faster, on a bike that doesn't have the family fortune invested in it.

I am living example of this. My first fast street bike was a 2004 Ninja 636 that I won in a raflle. I knew I would have to sell it when the tax man came calling for his share, so I was terrified of wrecking it. I rode like a squid: full throttle on the straights, and slow in the corners. I nearly killed myself many times in the year I owned it, yet learned almost nothing from the experience.

I sold it and bought a Honda 600 dual sport, on which I learned everything from maintanence to riding skills, with little fear of screwing it up (it was only $1,400). Years later, I'm riding and Italian 750 twin, and loving every minute of it. I still don't think a track oriented sportbike is the right one for me, but it took some time to develop my tastes.

I recommend the smaller Monster for your friend.

P.S. get him a copy of "Proficient Motorcycling". Its the next best thing to that safety course.

High Country Herb screwed with this post 04-24-2012 at 09:02 AM Reason: book recommendation
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #64
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Really? Any 'n00b?

The cc's of a motorcycle do not dictate if it is going to crash or not. Please tell us from your vast experience why you feel a right to force an adult to purchase and ride a bike of your choosing and not his own.
Agreed. So, shouldn't this be the end of it? I "practiced" on a 305 Honda just to pass my test, then went out and bought a 1000cc Sportster (fast in its day). That same year a kid I know was coming full-bore down a long hill near where I live on a 350cc (going as fast as he could get the thing to go), lost control and is now paralyzed neck down. So... maybe it's the rider?

I mean forget the driving schools, let's just force all perspective bike riders to undergo a battery of psychological tests and then be awarded an appropriate bike. I can already tell you where the chips will fall: those of us who believe people should make up their own minds, will get Busas. Those who want new drivers to be absolutely preciously careful about everything they do -- will get sit down lawnmowers.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:06 AM   #65
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I don't want a Busa... Now the new ZX14... Yup, I wantz one.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #66
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If he is a new rider starting out he is all but guaranteed to drop his new motorcycle on it's side, probably more than once. This may result in anything from minor dents in the gas tank to broken blinker stalks. I would make sure he installs frame sliders on any bike he purchases but especially a new, expensive one. If he has never driven a bike before it sounds to me he is basing his decision on image and looks rather than rational reasons.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:08 AM   #67
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I don't want a Busa... Now the new ZX14... Yup, I wantz one.
Sorry, in this perfect state you are only allowed what you are issued. Better than...



"I AM SO SAFE!"
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:32 AM   #68
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If he is a new rider starting out he is all but guaranteed to drop his new motorcycle on it's side, probably more than once.



MYTH!!! This is a MYTH!!




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Old 04-24-2012, 11:26 AM   #69
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MYTH!!! This is a MYTH!!






If you're so sure everything you're ballyhooing is a myth, feel free to factually prove the others wrong.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #70
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I am not your research assistant. A claim was made. I countered the claim as a myth. If you would like to prove the claim then have at it... If you believe: a new rider starting out he is all but guaranteed to drop his new motorcycle on it's side, probably more than once.

Then back it up. It is simply NOT true for most people.

Me on the other hand... The last new bike I bought I kicked over on its side before I even rode it just to get it over with.

edited to take the edge off.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:42 PM   #71
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In the UK, statistically 30 times more likely to die on the roads than a car driver, can't speak for the USA.

I'm sorry Dakez, you're a motorcyle dealer, you have an in-built bias here to shift units.
I think its around 20x over here. But 60% of our motorcycle deaths have alcohol in the system.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:48 PM   #72
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I think its around 20x over here. But 60% of our motorcycle deaths have alcohol in the system.
Ouch, that's high! .

There is a big drink-drive stigma in the UK, I don't know anyone who would tbh.

Afaik most bike deaths here are single vehicle, mostly over-cooking corners on country roads. In fact one of the police forces drew up a 'most likely to die' profile and began attending bike meets to pro-actively engage riders who fitted the demographic.

It was sometimg like aged 30-35, intelligent, litre sports-bike, married with 2+ kids, weekend rider, considered themselves to be a good or very good on a motorcycle.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:56 PM   #73
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...considered themselves to be a good or very good on a motorcycle.
Ahh, there's nothing like a little over-confidence. Mix that with some alcohol, and you're invincible!
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:16 PM   #74
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Speaking of crashes and new riders, let me throw my two cents having ridden on both sides of the pond for some time.
The laws in most European countries will not allow anybody to start riding on a powerful motorcycle at least for a year after they get their license. That helps them develop, gain experience and become better riders and appreciate the power of a motorcycle. Also most of them are coming from stick shift cars and have a better knowledge of the clutch concept thus makes them more adapt. Traffic flow in Europe is a lot faster and drivers and riders are a lot better because of their licensing process and driving habits.Most of the European sold cars not even have proper drink holders
Coming back to USA you can get a motorcycle permit (not even a license as long as you don't carry a passenger) and walk into a dealer and buy a busa or whatever suits your taste as the most cool looking and bad ass and ride into sunset. It's happening every day, specially around military bases where young kids have more money than brains. That's why you can not ride a motorcycle into a military base now without going trough a special course.In some years we are losing more young man and woman to motorcycle accidents then we are losing in the war. Getting a license here in the USA be it car or motorcycle is a joke. In some states you can even get it in a closed to traffic environment. Most of the drivers are terrible and because we don't have a decent public transportation system, older folks who should not drive are still driving to do their daily chores. Texting, eating, doing make up, DUI you name it.
I don't know the real facts but I'll guess we have the highest rate of motorcycle accidents in the world per miles ridden.
If you buy a Harley and bar hop during the weekends and ride 1-2000 miles a year you might get away with it but for the rest of you who ride more than that and did not went down yet, eventually you will. You would hope that you will walk away. However I wish everybody well from beginners to experienced and hope it never happens. BE SAFE.
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:21 PM   #75
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What i think is funny is people say that they need a big bike because they are tall. Go plug the ninja 250r and the zx10r into cycle-ergo.com and the 250 has less knee bend(65 degrees versus 70 degrees for 6'2" and 34" inseam).
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