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Old 04-24-2012, 05:59 PM   #16
creighta
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I used to worry about my chinese gy6s but then got to watching some kids on a gy6 gocart and decided if they could run two tanks of gas out without more than a fuel stop I wasnt hurtin the scoot.

Maybe they meant that YOU need a rest after an hour on a small scoot.....I know that was about my limit on the old 150.....not the silverwing though.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover6 View Post
I would agree with the "run them" school of thought. I ran long haul trucks for years. Now a 14 litre diesel engine is a different animal from a 50cc scooter, however the principal is the same.

When a truck is loaded and trucking, the engine is under significant load for many hours if not days. Even on flat straight roads, a stiff wind will have the engine pulling 80-100% of its load capacity, and I have seen many with well over 500 000 miles.

I also have a diesel pick up truck, and notice a big difference between after I have gone on a road trip with my trailer vs. driving around town empty. It runs better and pulls stronger after it has been worked.

Unless something is causing the engine to run hotter than recommended I would carry on. Your engine will thank you.
Thats strange how you says that they pulls stronger after they's been worked. Is that a temporary effect?
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:21 AM   #18
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Thats strange how you says that they pulls stronger after they's been worked. Is that a temporary effect?
1. self learning control units (with advanced fuel injection, not carburetor).
2. hard load cleans engine+exhaust.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:52 PM   #19
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Some air cooled aircraft engines should, or are better off, "resting" after running, especially ones with fuel injection and turbo chargers. You let the turbo spool down at idle for 1-2 minutes before shutting it down, lessens the possibility of the oil coking in the turbo. Starting it right up after shut down (if it doesn't vapor lock) and taking off on a hot day, you're more likely to have temperature issues, oil, egt, and cylinder heat issues. At least one turbine engine I've operated required spinning the starter or pulling the prop through by hand to get cooling air back into the engine - reputed to, over time, bow the shaft, if you didn't do this. The engines weren't back alley junk, they often lasted 7000+ hours.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:05 AM   #20
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Scooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Some air cooled aircraft engines should, or are better off, "resting" after running, especially ones with fuel injection and turbo chargers. You let the turbo spool down at idle for 1-2 minutes before shutting it down, lessens the possibility of the oil coking in the turbo. Starting it right up after shut down (if it doesn't vapor lock) and taking off on a hot day, you're more likely to have temperature issues, oil, egt, and cylinder heat issues. At least one turbine engine I've operated required spinning the starter or pulling the prop through by hand to get cooling air back into the engine - reputed to, over time, bow the shaft, if you didn't do this. The engines weren't back alley junk, they often lasted 7000+ hours.
Aren't we discussing scooters?

(Also, FI doesn't vapor lock...carburetion does)
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:31 AM   #21
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I spent Weds night with the folks who are riding the Scooter Cannonball and what I saw was that exhausts were failing when the engines cooled after riding through 109f head at or near WOT for most of 300 miles. The vintage scoots were found that the heat issues they experienced were resolved by removing the cowlings which dropped the temps 40f and kept them running well.

So my view would agree with those that say shutting them off would be more likely to create problems than solve them.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Some air cooled aircraft engines should, or are better off, "resting" after running, especially ones with fuel injection and turbo chargers. You let the turbo spool down at idle for 1-2 minutes before shutting it down, lessens the possibility of the oil coking in the turbo. Starting it right up after shut down (if it doesn't vapor lock) and taking off on a hot day, you're more likely to have temperature issues, oil, egt, and cylinder heat issues. At least one turbine engine I've operated required spinning the starter or pulling the prop through by hand to get cooling air back into the engine - reputed to, over time, bow the shaft, if you didn't do this. The engines weren't back alley junk, they often lasted 7000+ hours.
Not just scooters and aircraft that need a breather. The owners manual on my Dodge turbo diesel says that after pulling at or near max GVW, the truck should run at a fast idle for 2-5 minutes before shutdown, otherwise the the turbo can fry. I guess it was good advice. I've got 213K on it so far.
I do remember reading a while back that some of the Buddy 125 and 150's would overheat if run full throttle for long periods. Anecdotal evidence, since it was on a blog.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rv-rick View Post
Not just scooters and aircraft that need a breather. The owners manual on my Dodge turbo diesel says that after pulling at or near max GVW, the truck should run at a fast idle for 2-5 minutes before shutdown, otherwise the the turbo can fry. I guess it was good advice. I've got 213K on it so far.
I do remember reading a while back that some of the Buddy 125 and 150's would overheat if run full throttle for long periods. Anecdotal evidence, since it was on a blog.
Letting the turbo cool off, isn't actually letting it the engine rest. Its the opposite in fact... preparing it be turned off and slowly ccoling things before a period of no use. The engine and turbo would actually be happier not being turned off, "but if your going to,here's how" is how I understand things.

If the manual said to "stop driving the vehicle whenever X happens", that would be a different story. I doubt that it says that though.

The Buddy 170 is fuel injected, and the electronic fuel injection starts to cut out at certain temps, as a fail-safe to KEEP the motor from overheating. It's intentional and the scooter can still be ridden, it just forced you to slow down enough to drop thetemperature. The 125 and 150 models do not do this.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:34 PM   #24
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i was told to do this during initial break in. otherwise never heard much about it unless as btcn said under extreme heat and less then optimal riding / cooling conditions
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:08 AM   #25
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Fuel injected engines do indeed vapor lock, at least air cooled aircraft ones - you can try a good high pressure fuel pump purge and that usually prevents or clears it, but I've been stuck before precisely because of vapor lock. (EG IO520 on a 206) They are mechanical systems, perhaps that's why. They can also over temp if immediately re-started on a very hot day at altitude when you have a long taxi and then takeoff. Its can be like a ticking bomb, the key was to minimize the taxi. If you waited 40 minutes or more with the engine shut down the residual heat would be less and you'd lessen the risk. OK, these are air-cooled aircraft engines, not a water-cooled scooter engine.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:05 AM   #26
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One final thought: I work with railway locomotives. Fuel-injected diesels.

American locomotives in the field are, by car and truck standards, amazingly old. Right now I'm working with two 1969 switch engines. One was rebuilt a few years ago; the other not in the last 20 years.

That's not typical but it's not shockingly old. I used to work for a major American railroad company; and we'd have locomotives as old as 1965 in regular service...this only about six-seven years ago.

AND...up until this environmental panic of five or so years ago, and the artificial spike in fuel costs...these engines were NEVER shut down except for maintenance! Not to fuel. Not to add oil...the engineer checked oil levels with it RUNNING. Not even when not used...they'd be left to idle; but almost never shut down.

In fact...with truck and other diesels moving to ethylene glycol antifreeze solutions in the 1950s, railway diesels never were modified or designed for antifreeze. They used WATER, up until just a few years ago; and a majority of units in the field today, still use straight water and cannot use ethylene glycol coolant.

My point is...THIRTY YEARS of these things idling or running constantly...shut down only for oil changes or major work...and they last forever. No, engines don't need rest. A user would get MORE use out of one, by not overloading it, but never "resting" it!
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:30 PM   #27
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Same is true for incandescent light bulbs; they can burn for decades if never shut off. It's the expansion and contraction of the filaments through on/off cycles that kills 'em.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:43 PM   #28
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Shutting the human heart on and off a few times tends to greatly reduce its life too.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
........My point is THIRTY YEARS of these things idling or running constantly...shut down only for oil changes or major work...and they last forever. No, engines don't need rest. A user would get MORE use out of one, by not overloading it, but never "resting" it!
Hi Casey

What engine lube do these loco's take? Is it Shell Rotella T?
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:29 PM   #30
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Hi Casey

What engine lube do these loco's take? Is it Shell Rotella T?
Honest to Godfrey, I don' t know. It comes out of a hose at the fueling station (on major rail lines); on our little short line, the oil is in a giant plastic vat on a pallet. A thousand gallons...no-brand brand. Bought by lowest bid.

And those engines keep on running.
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