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Old 07-03-2012, 05:42 AM   #136
charlie264
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Hydraulic tappets, dry sump, oil in the frame, oil cooler, twin spark quad coils, twin pulse coils separate from generator, shaft drive. Need I go on...I sold mine.WHY...WHY O WHY.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:17 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by charlie264 View Post


Hydraulic tappets, dry sump, oil in the frame, oil cooler, twin spark quad coils, twin pulse coils separate from generator, shaft drive. Need I go on...I sold mine.WHY...WHY O WHY.
Because it only made 50hp...
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:51 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by SixDays02 View Post
Sounds like AfricaTwin.
You missed the part of my post where I talked about a LIGHT chassis? :
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:14 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by jerdog53 View Post
Because it only made 50hp...
Actually it made 62hp and with RS cams made 88 bhp. Pipe and smoke it.
This was all back in 83, wonder how good it would be now if evolved. Did I mention hydrolic tappets.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:39 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by charlie264 View Post
Actually it made 62hp and with RS cams made 88 bhp. Pipe and smoke it.
This was all back in 83, wonder how good it would be now if evolved. Did I mention hydrolic tappets.

Exactly, 88 HP from a 1983 Carburated cluncker of a bike compared to bikes today. Trellis frame, fuel injection lighter stronger materials, better suspension, lighter better brakes, it could be done very easily. I don't think we need 1200+++++ cc's, coming up on 600lb pigs. I think we need the HP to be around 90 to 100, weight to be no more than 450lbs dry, comfortable seats, great suspension, enough fuel to make at least 200 miles on the road, good wind protection, real skid plates and crash bars, and extra lighting and panniers as an option.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by bigdave-gs View Post
Exactly, 88 HP from a 1983 Carburated cluncker of a bike compared to bikes today. Trellis frame, fuel injection lighter stronger materials, better suspension, lighter better brakes, it could be done very easily. I don't think we need 1200+++++ cc's, coming up on 600lb pigs. I think we need the HP to be around 90 to 100, weight to be no more than 450lbs dry, comfortable seats, great suspension, enough fuel to make at least 200 miles on the road, good wind protection, real skid plates and crash bars, and extra lighting and panniers as an option.
I’m with ya, but it all boils down to $$$$, remember the B series rally cars....Lancia Delta S4, same sort of time, was 1700cc and a 1000bhp and was just 890kg. Problem is the cost of exotic material for keeping the weight down but safety strength up for the road costs...

less that 450lbs with a hundred horses......thats the SE-R.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:18 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by DaBit View Post
Which also means that I probably don't want 90-ish HP, but more somewhere around 65hp. Makes the chassis lighter; less material needed to put all those horses on the road. And less horses to feed means more miles per gallon, which saves weight too.
That bike already exists: 690 Enduro.
68 hp
138 dry weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave-gs View Post
I think we need the HP to be around 90 to 100, weight to be no more than 450lbs dry, comfortable seats, great suspension, enough fuel to make at least 200 miles on the road, good wind protection, real skid plates and crash bars, and extra lighting and panniers as an option.
That bike already exists: 950 SE
98 hp
185 kg dry (= 408 lbs)
Add a Safari tank -> 200 miles on the road OK
Add Rally Kit -> wind protection and better lighting OK
Other things also to be added.




No I want something right in the middle of the 950SE and the 690R:
(185 kg + 138 kg) / 2 = 162 kg = 357 lbs
(98 hp + 68 hp) / 2 = 83 hp

And off course also a 1290 for the people who don't care about weight.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:18 AM   #143
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The more I ride the SE-R, the more I wonder why more people didn't buy these as adventure bikes. With the Advtank, it has a range of over 200 miles, is really pretty comfy for one rider, and the only street legal bike I have owned that the suspension doesn't suck. Good brakes, it's a nice package.

That being said, look at what is selling in the market. Triumph Explorer? GSAs, Multi's,. All are full of whiz-bang gadgetry and comfort and it adds weight and it adds price, but I suspect the cost isn't as substantial as it seems which leaves more profit for the manufacturers.

You start throwing Ti and other high quality materials at a bike, the cost is going to drive it out of the market. "Why spend $20k on a Adv 990 when for $20k I get a heated seat, and cruise control on my Triumph?" "Dude the 990 is 150 lb lighter." "Felt the same at the show room when I sat on it, and I didn't have to stand on my toes, I am buying a Triumph. That will show my poser Harley friends who don't have cruise control and heated seats."


That being said, I think the 1090R promise may be a logical update to the 990, and the 1290 will be the marketable street tourer. Too bad a SE RC8R -R wasn't on the drawing board...
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:38 AM   #144
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Had a talk with a good KTM dealer the other day just after he got back from the rep meeting said that they are looking at making only LC8 based engine for all the bikes making only a 1090 engine I also asked him about a small v-twin and he said that there was nothing mentioned just rumors.... 1290 is suppose to be 2013-2014 not sure they have an official date yet
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schannulleke View Post
That bike already exists: 690 Enduro.
68 hp
138 dry weight.

That bike already exists: 950 SE
98 hp
185 kg dry (= 408 lbs)
Add a Safari tank -> 200 miles on the road OK
Add Rally Kit -> wind protection and better lighting OK
Other things also to be added.




No I want something right in the middle of the 950SE and the 690R:
(185 kg + 138 kg) / 2 = 162 kg = 357 lbs
(98 hp + 68 hp) / 2 = 83 hp

And off course also a 1290 for the people who don't care about weight.
First of all the 690 is nothing more than a street legal dirt bike, comfort, no, wind protection, no, fuel range, no, so no on that bike.

Second, the 950 was a great bike for what it was, but comfort, marginal, wind protection, no, fuel range, no, still in production, no, so no on that bike.

Third, looking for something in the middle, yes, around 750cc yes, around 90 hp, yes, around 400lbs, yes, made by KTM so we know it will be bad ass, yes, so we are looking for the same bike.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by bigdave-gs View Post
First of all the 690 is nothing more than a street legal dirt bike, comfort, no, wind protection, no, fuel range, no, so no on that bike.

Second, the 950 was a great bike for what it was, but comfort, marginal, wind protection, no, fuel range, no, still in production, no, so no on that bike.

Looking for something in the middle, yes, around 750cc yes, around 90 hp, yes, around 400lbs, yes, so we are looking for the same bike.
See if you can find a Honda XRV 750 around and update it....good bike and parts are not an issue. Just sayin.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:29 AM   #147
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We must be the black hole...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramv View Post
The more I ride the SE-R, the more I wonder why more people didn't buy these as adventure bikes. With the Advtank, it has a range of over 200 miles, is really pretty comfy for one rider, and the only street legal bike I have owned that the suspension doesn't suck. Good brakes, it's a nice package. Too bad a SE RC8R -R wasn't on the drawing board...
I can't imagine how the KTM designers felt after the SE went into production and nobody bought the damn thing. It must have been a huge letdown for them, both financially and for their egos. They may have been competing too closely with their own Adventure market and the SE just looked too raw? Who knows? ( I wish the SE came out in '04. I'd love to have an SE but not after all the money I've already spent on my Adventure.)

Regarding the XLV750.... Honda ran into the same problem as KTM with the SE... They just didn't hit the numbers. And the XLV750 was WAY AHEAD OF IT'S TIME. It spawned the Honda Dakar Rally program, with winners and podium finalists throughout it's platform evolution.

But with all that money spent in R&D and Rally competition... it didn't have the numbers.

A big part of this is potential sales volume. It's the single most important result for any motorcycle company when deciding new models.

And no one can really predict how quickly a new model will take off in popularity... if ever. And what happens to the production line of a failed model... what do you do with the production area? The tooling? Where do you shelf unused inventory? It must become a much larger burden on a company when a product just sits... like the SE did for KTM. Or when Honda bailed on the XLV and limited production on the Africa Twin.

Motorcycle companies must look at us... the ones who have very specific requests for a bike we think would be perfect... like a lightweight 750 twin... a bike that fits in between two niche bikes already.

And I wonder if the manufacturers are thinking... "OH NO, I'm not falling for that trap again... that market share is a fuck'in BLACK HOLE".

In the manufacturers minds, they probably figure KISS-ASS ( keep it simple stupid and street savvy).
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:35 AM   #148
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I can't imagine how the KTM designers felt after the SE went into production and nobody bought the damn thing. It must have been a huge letdown for them, both financially and for their egos. They may have been competing too closely with their own Adventure market and the SE just looked too raw? Who knows?
Three words: 37" seat height

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:22 AM   #149
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:32 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Schannulleke View Post
That bike already exists: 690 Enduro.
68 hp
138 dry weight.
Nope. That bike is lacking in the road manners department. Fuel capacity, range, wind protection, decent lighting, bla. And I see many 690's breaking down now that the miles rack up.

Now, if KTM would give us the LC4 690 Adventure, hmm, that would be something. LC4-640 Adventure is/was a very good bike, but the engine IS vibey and fairly unreliable. But even then I still wouldn't mind to accept an extra 5-10kg of weight for a twin cylinder engine, preferrably a 90-degree V-twin.

Quote:
That bike already exists: 950 SE
Same as above.

Of course, bikes can be heavily modified, but only a very small percentage of us is willing to spend hundreds to thousands of hours doing so or paying for a premade kit which costs almost as much as the bike itself.
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