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Old 10-23-2012, 07:07 PM   #1486
RED CAT
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Size!

Doesn't dictate gas milage. My GS1200 was way better on gas than my XRL 650. About 20% better. Fuel injected bikes are usually much better than carburated. The newer they are, the better the milage in most cases, same as cars and trucks. My insurance is the same for all bikes. Cheap for PL/PD only.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:06 AM   #1487
Salvo
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Ktm 1190

on the Italian KTM web site (ktm.it) there it is, a big friggin tease, on this side of the pond.... squat (plus a few other models we don't)

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Old 10-24-2012, 09:57 AM   #1488
Sporting Wood
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Originally Posted by Salvo View Post
on the Italian KTM web site (ktm.it) there it is, a big friggin tease, on this side of the pond.... squat (plus a few other models we don't)


MOOooooooooOOOOO...


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Old 10-24-2012, 10:21 AM   #1489
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No comparison....

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MOOooooooooOOOOO...



Moo Cow has much higher ground clearance. Kidding , just kidding.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:19 PM   #1490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED CAT View Post
Size doesn't dictate gas milage. My GS1200 was way better on gas than my XRL 650. About 20% better. Fuel injected bikes are usually much better than carburated. The newer they are, the better the milage in most cases, same as cars and trucks. My insurance is the same for all bikes. Cheap for PL/PD only.
All other things being equal, smaller engine displacement (and the associated reduction in hp) usually does have a beneficial impact on mpg. I'm not comparing FI vs. carbs or different bikes (with different weights, final drive rations, and, importantly, aerodynamics) or different engine configurations (number of cylinders, bore vs. stroke, etc).

I'm simply saying that the same bike with the same engine design but a smaller cc and corresponding hp reduction will burn less fuel. Much like pickup truck engines when, in the early 2000s they were uping the hp rating by 10 - 20% every few years but getting the same gas mileage. I think I was in the minority when I said 280hp is plenty for my 1/2 ton and the towing that I do. I would have rather the advancing technology given me 10%+ improvment in mileage over the additional 30hp with the same mileage. Extra hp wasn't benefiting me day to day (how many times a day was I going to be wide open throttle at that peak rpm) where the mileage improvement would have. For me, it's the same in this bike category. More hp AND more efficient is great...but if the hp was already plenty, adding 40% more is wasted and if the hp rating would have been kept the same, presumeably even more than a 20% efficiency gain could have been realized.

In reality, much of the hp wars are driven by the bike magazines using that as a deciding factor on how much they like one bike over another and it's weighted far too much in this catagory of bike. The motorcycle magazines would compare the 1/4 mile times and hp numbers and more often than not, the more powerful and fastest 1/4 times were given the nod. Armed with those numbers, the human factor and the "mine is better than yours" factor would kick in and we all know that we can't stand to have less hp or slower 1/4 times than the next guy, no matter the catagory of bike!

From an engineering perspective, I like that the 1190 is more efficient AND more powerful. Personally, I don't care much about the additional hp and would prefer the additional efficiency. That way, we have to carry around less weight in the form of fuel carried in a tank with a high center of gravity. What easier way to keep the wet weight of a bike lower. Raise the fuel efficiency so you can carry 2 less gallons of fuel and get the same range. Or, keep the fuel capacity (and potential extra weight) and have a much longer fuel range on the same amount of fuel.

I'm good with the guys that say then can never have enough hp and agree it's a thrill to ride, just saying that for me, personally, for this bike catagory, 70 - 90hp is plenty for what I want to use this type of bike for and, besides thrill, it would be a rare instance that not having 100+hp would be an issue even for 2up and loaded with gear. Heck, a Vstrom 650 and similar mid-sized bikes tour just fine at 80mph all day long. So that boils down to a "excitement" factor, which is important, but a varying level of importance depending on the rider.

In my experience, engine size has impacted my insurance rates within the same category of bikes. Lot's of variables there, but in the 4 states I've lived in, there has been a fair spread in insurance costs comparing a 250 to 650 to 1000 to 1200cc bikes within a category (not comparing crotch rockets to dual sports; all within a catagory of bike). Other states and riders might not have similar experience, but in mine, 1200cc is going to cost more per year than a smaller bike. Not a huge amount, but it's there. So I'll be paying for those extra cc in three ways; insurance, gas mileage, and weight (needing to carry more gas for the same fuel range).

As much as I'd love to have one of the bikes in the 1200cc Adventure Tourer category, I just find that for me and my girlfriend riding two up, we spend more time on gravel roads, jeep trails, and even ATV trails than asphalt. Note that when I'm talking time, it's just that. Time and not miles. We might burn through 50 miles of asphalt in less than an hour but then spend 5+ hours riding 20 or 30 miles of trails or a couple hours doing the same distance on gravel. For our use, more ground clearance and lighter weight will come in handy for those 5+ hours. A slightly less highway friendly bike will only be noticed for 1 hour of that ride so time plays a bigger role than mileage when talking about dirt riding. We both ride small dual sports, too, but when we go for longer rides and camping, it's usually two up and loaded down and on the trail we ride, ground clearance is a huge factor (rocks, ruts, waterbars, etc).

I realize that we have access to, and ride, trails that most of the U.S. does not. If our riding was limited to gravel roads and asphalt, like many of those shopping this category, then the new 1190 will be a great, fun, and presumably capable Adventure Tourer. I really like the look. I like the look of the 990 better, but they are two different subcatagories with a slightly different focus. That is splitting hairs, but really there are the guys that value the extra suspension, ground clearance and offroad capabilities over lower seat height, hp etc.

In the end, for most situation, there probably is less real world capability difference between the 990 and 1190 than most people will notice in 90% of their dirt riding. More of the shock probably had to do with the change in the look and styling. Less offroad looking. Cosmetics plays a large role in the opinions on the new bike it seems. I'll be more anxious to hear the real world dirt riding reviews of the 1190 once it's released and how it compares to the other now-very similar bikes in the catagory (1200GS, Super Tenere, Tiger, etc.).

Chadx screwed with this post 10-25-2012 at 08:01 AM
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:21 PM   #1491
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Moo Cow has much higher ground clearance. Kidding , just kidding.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:03 PM   #1492
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Originally Posted by sideup View Post
Moo Cow has much higher ground clearance. Kidding , just kidding.


perfect.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:05 AM   #1493
Bob599
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690 Adventure

Why don't you haters buy a 690 Enduro ($10,000) and then put the rally raid kit on it ($3,000) and have your Unicorn, Sasquatch, Lochness Monster Mythical Bike! The kit looks great, reviews have been good, 50mpg, 6 gallons of gas, 350ish weight and a pipe to get it over 70 HP. $13,000 and all your problems are solved.

Its right there waiting for you! Help the economy!

I am going to buy a 1190 and ride it off road! Yeah I said off road. I road all over northern Wisconsin for years with a bike that had lower ground clearance, less gas capacity, less suspension, and weighed about the same. The bike was a 1974 AMF Harley 350 enduro. What a miracle that I was able to have fun. I get what all of you are saying but the 1190 is going to be great for a market that WILL buy it. I also hope this bikes success will fund a less expensive 690 rally. But until then I am going to ride the shit out of the 1190.
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Bob599 screwed with this post 10-25-2012 at 07:12 AM Reason: i am stupid
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:28 AM   #1494
KMC1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob599 View Post
Why don't you haters buy a 690 Enduro ($10,000) and then put the rally raid kit on it ($3,000) and have your Unicorn, Sasquatch, Lochness Monster Mythical Bike! The kit looks great, reviews have been good, 50mpg, 6 gallons of gas, 350ish weight and a pipe to get it over 70 HP. $13,000 and all your problems are solved.

Its right there waiting for you! Help the economy!


As I mentioned, my gut tells me there's a lot more Monday morning quarterbacking going on here than there is any real interest in spending money. I know I wouldn't put my cash into building a custom bike that's then going to have to compete with the 690 ....no way.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:20 PM   #1495
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Originally Posted by Bob599 View Post
Why don't you haters buy a 690 Enduro ($10,000) and then put the rally raid kit on it ($3,000) and have your Unicorn, Sasquatch, Lochness Monster Mythical Bike! The kit looks great, reviews have been good, 50mpg, 6 gallons of gas, 350ish weight and a pipe to get it over 70 HP. $13,000 and all your problems are solved.

Its right there waiting for you! Help the economy!

I am going to buy a 1190 and ride it off road! Yeah I said off road. I road all over northern Wisconsin for years with a bike that had lower ground clearance, less gas capacity, less suspension, and weighed about the same. The bike was a 1974 AMF Harley 350 enduro. What a miracle that I was able to have fun. I get what all of you are saying but the 1190 is going to be great for a market that WILL buy it. I also hope this bikes success will fund a less expensive 690 rally. But until then I am going to ride the shit out of the 1190.
Exactly, because most people just like to bitch about stuff they know they can't have. There are so many threads about why doesn't "X" manufacturer make "Y" bike. And the answer is that because the number of people who will actually BUY it are not enough to support such a venture. It would be easy for someone to do just as you suggested and buy the 690 and modify it into the perfect unicorn but then they wouldn't be able to complain that so and so doesn't make the perfect bike according to them. If they built this mythical 750-800CC instead of the 1190 there would be an equal number of people bitching it lacked power and range blah blah friggin blah.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:25 PM   #1496
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:12 PM   #1497
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:50 PM   #1498
rockycraig
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1190 reviews

anybody have any first ride reviews, I couldn't find any yet, note sure. when they are going to start to sell these oversees
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:58 PM   #1499
Afry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob599 View Post
Why don't you haters buy a 690 Enduro ($10,000) and then put the rally raid kit on it ($3,000) and have your Unicorn, Sasquatch, Lochness Monster Mythical Bike! The kit looks great, reviews have been good, 50mpg, 6 gallons of gas, 350ish weight and a pipe to get it over 70 HP. $13,000 and all your problems are solved.

Its right there waiting for you! Help the economy!

I am going to buy a 1190 and ride it off road! Yeah I said off road. I road all over northern Wisconsin for years with a bike that had lower ground clearance, less gas capacity, less suspension, and weighed about the same. The bike was a 1974 AMF Harley 350 enduro. What a miracle that I was able to have fun. I get what all of you are saying but the 1190 is going to be great for a market that WILL buy it. I also hope this bikes success will fund a less expensive 690 rally. But until then I am going to ride the shit out of the 1190.
Great bike and many happy riders have doe so but it's still a thumper. I think the theme is a smoother bike out on the open road that a multi can deliver.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:55 AM   #1500
nikoktm
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Originally Posted by rockycraig View Post
anybody have any first ride reviews, I couldn't find any yet, note sure. when they are going to start to sell these oversees
Guys at Team Moto Virginia told me that the bike will be available in Brisbane at the end of January... If that is thru, I'm the first who to pay the deposit; and will let you know by then!
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