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Old 11-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #1801
Martynho
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Dont go there

Look Squire, you really dont want to "meet" Lukas. I have had the opportunity and he is in fact the meanest, hard assed MF you could ever have the misfortune to meet. I once pissed him off only slightly (his pisco sour wasnt quite right) and he lost it and bitch slapped me, and I am 6 ft 4. Leave it, jus breathe deep and leave it...

BTW he knows fuck all what he`s talking about

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCN View Post
Thanks, Dude. I'll go out and get some thicker skin. I haven't 'meet' you by the way, this is the internet don't forget. Thing is, because this is the internet (thanks for explaining that, us uneducated types are still amazed by radio), you know nothing about me so your assessment of the 'thickness' of my skin is based on my unhappy reply to your arrogant slap down of the new boy. Most people who know me would say that I have the hide of a Rhino but also I quite like people to make the effort to be civil because it really isn't difficult....... What you seem to be saying is that because this is the internet you can be a bit of a dick? Fair enough. I think that because this is the internet and this is a forum for bikers, by bikers, about bikes there is nothing wrong with being polite to your fellow bikers. If my question or post is a waste of time then don't bother wasting your self-importance trashing it, just ignore it. Simple. Or perhaps you could be polite and use the 2 sentences you bothered to give me to offer up something interesting, useful or constructive.

Anyway, to discuss the second half of your post which was actually useful, I am really pleased that you have a low single digit price difference in Austria. That is interesting and useful information to me and I appreciate it, also it does give me hope, especially as I mentioned before the strong A$ should help KTM make solid profits without big price hikes. I take your point about the UK but I do believe that historically the 990 price has been around 10K in the UK for a while. As a Brit who lives in the middle-east and Australia I don't get home much so I may well be out of date with that.

Speculation can be interesting, in my opinion; but I am also well aware, of course, that discussing it will have no effect on the outcome. However, that is like saying we can't discuss next years Champions League because it will have no effect on the outcome.

Martynho screwed with this post 11-30-2012 at 02:07 PM
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #1802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
I see what you are saying, but if BMW can sell 5-10 times as many R1200GSs depending on the market, I think KTM made the right move by changing their big twin to compete more directly with it, even if the price went up a bit.

Lots of riders who own big twins also own more than one bike, cars, and way too much other shit they could give up before letting a couple of % higher price stop them from buying a 150 HP big enduro bike.
You can apologize to me when we meet while I'm out riding my Adventure R in 2014!

It's entirely possible you might see me on the new Superduke too.... not for long mind you. but possible....
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:22 PM   #1803
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I just logged into KTM's European site, Untied Kingdom and they have a price calculator for both the 1190 and the 1190 R in GBP. I didn't check the other countries since I only have a working knowledge of other languages.

http://www.ktm.com/gb/travel/1190-ad...alculator.html
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:44 PM   #1804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynho View Post
Look Squire, you really dont want to "meet" Lukas. I have had the opportunity and he is in fact the meanest, hard assed MF you could ever have the misfortune to meet. I once pissed him off only slightly (his pisco sour wasnt quite right) and he lost it and bitch slapped me, and I am 6 ft 4. Leave it, jus breathe deep and leave it...

BTW he knows fuck all what he`s talking about
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:28 PM   #1805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCN View Post
Looking at the places where the official price for the 1190 Adventure has been released (UK, Eu, US) all of them seem to have had a 25-30% hike over the previous 990 model.

Following that (possibly faulty) logic and bearing in mind that the current retail for a 990 in Aus, on Bikesales.com.au is around the A$22,000 are we looking at A$28,000+ for an 1190 Adventure, before even adding any options?

I have a deposit down for an 1190 Adventure but if the price is up there are at that kind of level, i.e. way over A$30,000 when you have added panniers and an Akrapovic pipe then I will probably have to pull out.

...

Here's hoping that they price them to compete and not as a niche player for those with big money. The other problem with such a big hike if it happens is that they risk alienating the 990 fans who will be looking to upgrade/buy a new bike.

Thoughts from the floor?

You may not be in a position to notice, but prices for bikes in Oz are heading downwards, in response to the sustained strength of the $A. It is disguised a bit because importers are introducing the cuts with new models. Witness the surprise pricing here of the new Guzzi Stelvio (rrp $20K for the base version) and the Honda Crosstourer (rrp base $20K, DCT$21K).

BMW last month cut prices here substantially across the board. RRP on the R1200GS is now at $21,500 (and I think that is with ABS, which was previously optional). The Adventure version is $23,850. We can expect the new GS waterboxer will be about the same as the current GS.

I cannot imagine KTM is going to put the new Adventure 1190 in Aussie showrooms at a $4000 premium to the GS Adventure and a $6000 premium to the water-cooled GS.




~ $A22,000 + ORC





$A28,000 + ORC ???????



(Have been wrong before, but feel safe on this one. )

Especially as their marketing internatilonally promotes the new Adventure directly as price-competitive:

Quote:
OUTSTANDING PACKAGE PRICE

Work it out for yourself: The KTM 1190 Adventure is not only the lightest, most powerful and versatile travel enduro, but also the one with the best equipment package. As a result, you get - at an already very affordable entry-level price - so much more for your money than from any of its esteemed competitors.
Source: here at the ktm international website.

So, if you were were working out what to charge for the new KTMs in Australia, how would you line them up against the BMW offerings?

My guess: The Adventure 1190 somewhere near the new GS - perhaps a wee bit higher because it comes with wire wheels and off-road traction control, both optional on the Beemer. So, roughly the same as the current 990R.

The Adventure R 1190 perhaps $1000 more than the Adventure 1190. Which would leave it less than $1000 under the GS Adventure. Hmm, maybe it won't be that much ...
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:31 AM   #1806
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Just my 2 cents worth !

I suspect KTM believe the 1190 should be priced 'competively' with similar bikes - and by that I suspect they are looking at bikes like the new water cooled GS and the Multistrada. Possibly also the Super Tenere.

In the UK they have kept prices a little low on the 990 with little in the way of price rises over the last three years or so. Again in the UK the 'old' GSs are being sold at bargain prices with good accessory packages being thrown in to clear the showroom floors ready for the new models.

From memory the Adventure was at a similar price to the GS back in 2008 ? So whilst the GS has creeped upwards, the 990 became much better value for money.

So, in the UK, there is a sizeable jump in price between the outgoing 990 and the 1190. Can it be justified ? I think so. The old bike has had little more than a minor facelift in 6 years. The new one is just that - new. Lots of extra electronics, better sorted fuel injection, better ABS etc etc. And with new comes price !
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:09 AM   #1807
990s
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[QUOTE=Anders J.;20148769]Prices in Sweden:
1190 Adventure R: SEK 139 900 (USD 19 886).
1190 Adventure: SEK 138 900 (USD 19 744).

As a comparison the price of the 990 Adv R at the same dealer was SEK 137 900.

Lucky you!

Prices in Norway: 1190: R 233900 NKr ( USD 41252)
1190 T: 232900 NKr (USD 41075)
1190 with no EDS TPMS: 224900 NKr (USD 39664)

As i remember. . 990 R 197000 NKr. (USD 34744)

The 1190 is more expensive than the 990 because of the norwegian tax regime. (You pay fot Motor volume and motor power.)
And that really sucks !
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:35 AM   #1808
TCN
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Thanks for your thoughts Moronic & Pebble. I saw the price drops on the BMW range back home. In particular they were quoting a A$5000 reduction on the R1200 GSA. Were they really A$29,000 before? Or are BMW playing games with RRP as they have been known to do in the past.

If the 1190 is competitive with the GS range on price I think they will sell very very well in Oz. I for one maybe a bit soft but would not have considered a 990 over a GS before - and I know the 990 is more capable off road and altogether more accomplished in rough terrain but I will mostly be using my big bike for touring - I have a 450 EXC for the stupid stuff. I think KTM will retain most of the core of 990 fans (happy to be shouted down here by the 990 owners) but gain new interest from people like me who want to tour but don't care about a stereo and electric screen. I want to be able to use all of the roads in Oz not just the smooth tarmac so a GS was probably going to be my first choice. The sports bike rider in me also loves the idea of having the RC8's twin on-board.

Obviously not many outside KTM have ridden this bike (hat tip to Bike magazine) so as ever I'm speculating but if it lives up to my expectations from what I have seen and read and the overall spec I think it will really take a chunk off the GS. That would be good for everyone including BMW in a twisted sort of way.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:23 AM   #1809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pebble35 View Post
Just my 2 cents worth !

I suspect KTM believe the 1190 should be priced 'competively' with similar bikes - and by that I suspect they are looking at bikes like the new water cooled GS and the Multistrada. Possibly also the Super Tenere.

So, in the UK, there is a sizeable jump in price between the outgoing 990 and the 1190. Can it be justified ? I think so. The old bike has had little more than a minor facelift in 6 years. The new one is just that - new. Lots of extra electronics, better sorted fuel injection, better ABS etc etc. And with new comes price !
Yes, they should look UP to competitive pricing, but the 1190R does not come close to all the frills, bells and whistles of the new 1200GS(I'm sure you even better than I know most of them), (or aftermarket support); and that was not their original stated market. They wanted to be the better off-road Grand Tourer bike while BMW was more road than off road. They did it well and we're hoping they don't loose that market focus. Less frills off road usually means less chance of getting stuck in the OUTBACK. So yes to the improved(NEW) 1190R that is NOT a 1200GS nor should be priced as one.
ps. A KTM in the middle weight market would be nice; for those of us that go light and/or can't afford the full boat Grand Tourers
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:26 AM   #1810
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[QUOTE=990s;20155062]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders J. View Post
Prices in Norway: 1190: R 233900 NKr ( USD 41252)
1190 T: 232900 NKr (USD 41075)
1190 with no EDS TPMS: 224900 NKr (USD 39664)

As i remember. . 990 R 197000 NKr. (USD 34744)

The 1190 is more expensive than the 990 because of the norwegian tax regime. (You pay fot Motor volume and motor power.)
And that really sucks !
How do people in Norway afford motorcycles?
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:49 AM   #1811
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Ask them what it is in Denmark. 180% sales tax on motos.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:55 AM   #1812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCN View Post
Thanks Anders for the info. Thanks also to LukasM for the prices in Austria. I'm hoping that my previous pessimism was misplaced and I will be getting an 1190 friend for my 450 EXC and SL Falco. Sadly I have a suspicion that the wife may force me to let one of them go if there is a new large KTM coming to the garage......Anyone in Oz want to buy an Aprilia SL Falco?
Yea, The Falco was one of the coolest bikes Aprilia built. Dont let that go!
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:45 AM   #1813
990s
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How do people in Norway afford motorcycles?[/QUOTE]

Well, its a seriously (bad) investment!

The 1190 will actually cost an average mans annual income, after taxes.

Actually it would be interesting to know how much of an annual income, in percent, people in different countrys
have to pay for the 1190!
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:36 AM   #1814
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Hehe. Even compared to norway, denmark is expensive regarding car/mc.

I'm 400.000(70.000$) before tax this year. With a rough tax(40%)estimate i end up with 240.000(42.000$) for my living. So even with the whole salary i wouldn't be able to pay the bike in denmark(290.000,-). This is ofcourse absolute rough estimates but bikes and cars are crazy expensive in denmark.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:45 AM   #1815
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I too have ordered an 1190R this week, after seeing it for the first time in the flesh at the nec show... I've been holding onto my 990 for a long time in anticipation for this beast to come out!

First impressions are very good- the bike feels better made, with a slimmer tank and certainly hasn't lost its trail riding position...


Looking forward to riding one!!
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