ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush > Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much horsepower (1050/1190/1290cc)
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-24-2012, 01:40 PM   #286
Terence FFM
prof. cat-herder
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Oddometer: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post

I'd love a smaller/lighter twin as the adventure bike as well, but don't think KTM can take off a whole lot of weight from the current 990. Even putting a smaller motor into an SE kind of arrangement with a bigger tank wouldn't drop all that much weight; and by the time you "adventureize" (think Tiger & BMW 800s) it to the point where it can profitably sell you're at a similar weight point.
This is a good point. I think a lot of people would like to see a smaller, lighter 2-cylinder adventure bike but making it lighter while still being able to load it up with it gear and slam it through high speed washes, having high quality wheels and suspension will end up in KTM building a bike that is lighter, and less powerful (and hopefully more fuel efficient to boot) but just as expensive as the current bike. Why do you think the F800GS comes with crappy non-adjustable forks? Because the consumer has been trained to think that displacement equals quality and subsequently price. If BMW put the same level of bits on the F as they do the R (not that those bits justify the prices BMW wants, but that's just my humble opinion), the two bikes would probably not be significantly different from one another in price (OK, the shaft costs a lot more to manufacture, but I wrote significantly.)

The cool Japanese 400cc race replicas in the early and mid-ninties with upside down forks, dzus fasteners, and all aluminum frames and swingarms: anyone remember those? They sold well in Japan because of the strict graduated licencing combined with a cultural attitude that big is not necessarily good. Everywhere else they flopped. They had tricker bits on them than most of the 750s and 600s being sold Stateside at the time. But we were so brainwashed to not see past this and they were usually passed off with a comment like,"No friggin' way am I paying as much for a 400 when I can get a 600 for the same money!!"

So, when you ask yourself why KTM isn't bringing a smaller adventure to the market, I suspect that is a big part of the answer.
__________________
"The powerful will delegate to the untalented until failure is achieved" Dogbert, CEO
Terence FFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 02:38 PM   #287
jerdog53
Banned
 
jerdog53's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: 80122
Oddometer: 4,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence FFM View Post
This is a good point. I think a lot of people would like to see a smaller, lighter 2-cylinder adventure bike but making it lighter while still being able to load it up with it gear and slam it through high speed washes, having high quality wheels and suspension will end up in KTM building a bike that is lighter, and less powerful (and hopefully more fuel efficient to boot) but just as expensive as the current bike. Why do you think the F800GS comes with crappy non-adjustable forks? Because the consumer has been trained to think that displacement equals quality and subsequently price. If BMW put the same level of bits on the F as they do the R (not that those bits justify the prices BMW wants, but that's just my humble opinion), the two bikes would probably not be significantly different from one another in price (OK, the shaft costs a lot more to manufacture, but I wrote significantly.)

The cool Japanese 400cc race replicas in the early and mid-ninties with upside down forks, dzus fasteners, and all aluminum frames and swingarms: anyone remember those? They sold well in Japan because of the strict graduated licencing combined with a cultural attitude that big is not necessarily good. Everywhere else they flopped. They had tricker bits on them than most of the 750s and 600s being sold Stateside at the time. But we were so brainwashed to not see past this and they were usually passed off with a comment like,"No friggin' way am I paying as much for a 400 when I can get a 600 for the same money!!"

So, when you ask yourself why KTM isn't bringing a smaller adventure to the market, I suspect that is a big part of the answer.
Well said!
jerdog53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 03:34 PM   #288
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence FFM View Post
This is a good point. I think a lot of people would like to see a smaller, lighter 2-cylinder adventure bike but making it lighter while still being able to load it up with it gear and slam it through high speed washes, having high quality wheels and suspension will end up in KTM building a bike that is lighter, and less powerful (and hopefully more fuel efficient to boot) but just as expensive as the current bike. Why do you think the F800GS comes with crappy non-adjustable forks? Because the consumer has been trained to think that displacement equals quality and subsequently price. If BMW put the same level of bits on the F as they do the R (not that those bits justify the prices BMW wants, but that's just my humble opinion), the two bikes would probably not be significantly different from one another in price (OK, the shaft costs a lot more to manufacture, but I wrote significantly.)

The cool Japanese 400cc race replicas in the early and mid-ninties with upside down forks, dzus fasteners, and all aluminum frames and swingarms: anyone remember those? They sold well in Japan because of the strict graduated licencing combined with a cultural attitude that big is not necessarily good. Everywhere else they flopped. They had tricker bits on them than most of the 750s and 600s being sold Stateside at the time. But we were so brainwashed to not see past this and they were usually passed off with a comment like,"No friggin' way am I paying as much for a 400 when I can get a 600 for the same money!!"

So, when you ask yourself why KTM isn't bringing a smaller adventure to the market, I suspect that is a big part of the answer.
As Joe Dirt would say "It's not what you want, it's what the consumer wants."

Unfortunately most consumers don't want what I want.

The ultimate consumer adventure bike is a Goldwing with some off-road styling cues.

I'm sure the new KTM is going to be phenomenal, but it's another step away from my ideals.
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 03:49 PM   #289
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet View Post
As Joe Dirt would say "It's not what you want, it's what the consumer wants."

Unfortunately most consumers don't want what I want.

The ultimate consumer adventure bike is a Goldwing with some off-road styling cues.

I'm sure the new KTM is going to be phenomenal, but it's another step away from my ideals.


KTM USA were rumored to have imported only 100 640 Adventures per year (2004 - 2007). Even accounting for the fact that it's a filling-rattler and that rider interest in these bikes is maybe growing, the market segment is still tiny. I wouldn't be surprised if they never release a 690/800 adventure. Also I'm not surprised that the 1190 is getting more-power, more-abs, more-stuff-people-who-ride-dirt-don't-much-care-about. In all the European adventure shootout reviews the 990 is competing with the Super-Tenere, Triumph Tiger and the freakin' Multistrada. It's always the "21 front end feels to vague in the twisties", "motor doesn't have enough power", "doesn't have enough buttons on the dashboard" .... but this versus better dirt manners is what the majority of buyers want.
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 04:36 PM   #290
wpbarlow
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Central NJ
Oddometer: 10,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet View Post
...The ultimate consumer adventure bike is a Goldwing with some off-road styling cues. ...

That would be the Varadero; so ask Honda how that went
wpbarlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 04:37 PM   #291
kzeb
motomaniac
 
kzeb's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Scandinavia
Oddometer: 48
[QUOTE=crazybrit;19437569]

In all the European adventure shootout reviews the 990 is competing with the Super-Tenere, Triumph Tiger and the freakin' Multistrada. It's always the "21 front end feels to vague in the twisties", "motor doesn't have enough power", QUOTE]

Sorry dude , but that isnt true at all.
in all Swedish test its the oppposite, the 990/950 is the winner when it comers to dirt and fun factor abillitys, allways a winner since the 950
__________________
KTM ADVENTURE 990S -06 ------>
HUSABERG FE 570 -09-------->

KTM 690 Enduro R -11------> ...Gone
kzeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 04:39 PM   #292
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzeb View Post
in all Swedish test its the oppposite, the 990/950 is the winner when it comers to dirt and fun factor abillitys, allways a winner since the 950
You're making my point. Who said anything about "dirt". I said adventure shootout
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 12:48 AM   #293
Schannulleke
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Oddometer: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by randel View Post
Rotax has developed 600cc (120hp) and 800cc (160hp) DI 2stroke engines for snowmobiles, why not something similar from KTM?
That would be a cool idea!

Take the current 690 Enduro, replace the engine by a 600cc 120hp DI 2-stroke engine -> new enduro
Take the current 690 Enduro, replace the engine by a 600cc 120hp DI 2-stroke engine, adventurize the bike -> new adventure
Schannulleke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 08:07 AM   #294
MookieBlaylock
Beastly Adventurer
 
MookieBlaylock's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: IntheeaglewingpalaceoftheQueenChinee
Oddometer: 2,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schannulleke View Post
That would be a cool idea!

Take the current 690 Enduro, replace the engine by a 600cc 120hp DI 2-stroke engine -> new enduro
Take the current 690 Enduro, replace the engine by a 600cc 120hp DI 2-stroke engine, adventurize the bike -> new adventure
120 hp in a 300 lbs dual sport, surely you jest
MookieBlaylock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:22 AM   #295
Treadless
used 2 b aventuring
 
Treadless's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Santa Barbara Ca
Oddometer: 5,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by MookieBlaylock View Post
120 hp in a 300 lbs dual sport, surely you jest

Would most likely be closer to 350 than 300lbs. And equipped with a de-tune switch for off road, dropping out put to around 80hp. Oh my yes.
__________________

Treadless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 09:10 PM   #296
syzygy9
Gnarly Adventurer
 
syzygy9's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Perth, Australia
Oddometer: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazybrit View Post


KTM USA were rumored to have imported only 100 640 Adventures per year (2004 - 2007). Even accounting for the fact that it's a filling-rattler and that rider interest in these bikes is maybe growing, the market segment is still tiny. I wouldn't be surprised if they never release a 690/800 adventure. Also I'm not surprised that the 1190 is getting more-power, more-abs, more-stuff-people-who-ride-dirt-don't-much-care-about. In all the European adventure shootout reviews the 990 is competing with the Super-Tenere, Triumph Tiger and the freakin' Multistrada. It's always the "21 front end feels to vague in the twisties", "motor doesn't have enough power", "doesn't have enough buttons on the dashboard" .... but this versus better dirt manners is what the majority of buyers want.
Well said!

Unfortunately there are lots of Adventure riders (cafe racers graduating to something a little more comfortable?) who will never see anything more difficult than a smooth dirt road. Unfortunately the things that make a good road bike are not the the things that make a good dirt bike - the trick is finding that balance. The KTM 990 is the closest in my view (which is why I bought one over a F800GS et al) but KTM may be succumbing to 'market' pressure to make their bikes more like the rest and more road orientated. As much as I (and guess many other Adv riders) may wish for a lighter, dirt capable twin there may simply not be the market for one. KTM only sell 30 new 990 Adv here in Australia a year - that's not a big market for a country that you would think would lap these bikes up.
__________________
__________________________
bikeless no longer! welcome home, 2011 KTM 990 Adventure!
syzygy9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 09:25 PM   #297
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
That would be the Varadero; so ask Honda how that went

Can't be all bad as they are putting money into development of the Crossrunner.

I will also submit:

Ducati Multistrada
Tiger Super Explorer
Yamaha Super Tenere

With Honda and KTM's bikes that brings us to 5 new platforms in 4 years. All five are more designed for "Adventure Touring" with the emphasis on the "touring".
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 09:30 PM   #298
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
As far as I am concerned. Bofff !!!!! 1090 or 1290, both are ennoying and totaly useless. The 990 is already too heavy and too powerfull.

We need a 800 mono, direct injection, adventure. Or even better, 600 mono, 2 strokes direct injection.

Paul Jr
__________________
KTM690r 2011

Gros Buck screwed with this post 08-27-2012 at 07:54 AM
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 12:39 AM   #299
Konflict Motorsports
KM TUNER
 
Konflict Motorsports's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond, Wa-Thousand Oaks Ca.
Oddometer: 840


Just a picture I came across via trailzone magazine from Australia's Facebook page.
__________________
Konflict Motorsports & Suspension www.KonflictMotorsports.com
Konflict Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 01:50 AM   #300
Yascher
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Yascher's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Oddometer: 388
WOW, thats just an SMT blended with Adv suspension and a new engine))))))) at least no more problems with buffeting!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konflict Motorsports View Post


Just a picture I came across via trailzone magazine from Australia's Facebook page.
Yascher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014