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Old 11-12-2013, 04:52 PM   #4891
Sparrowhawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon66 View Post
This is an adventure bike, right? When I travel on an adventure, I need to carry a tent, sleeping bag, clothes and stuff like that... Day trips are fun, but spend a week or two camping from spot to spot and you will come to appreciate having some basic gear.
Slight hijack, feel free to skip. I apologize for any hurt feelings I may have caused by poking a little light-hearted fun at the way some folks load up these high-performance bikes like Jed and the family on their way to California. I understand that, while I enjoy traveling fast and light, others get joy from taking their time with all the comforts. I have adopted this approach through experience, not from a lack of experience.

The new KTM Adventure is on my A-list because of all the things it can do. From all accounts it has a higher level of on-road performance and loses little from the last generation off road. I've spent time on the 990, watched the track day videos where they open a can of whoop-ass on crotch rockets, followed the '02 Dakar Rally, was impressed with Ned's 18th place finish in the '07 Baja 1000, and ridden with a few riders on 9xx Adventures and SEs that are able to blow past a pack of EXCs on open trails. Oh, and they are good at touring too.

So, what started all the was a photo of a 1190 with hard luggage. Nothing wrong with that. But they were not just aluminum bags, they were large bags, with a top case, and the owner was talking about just a weekend trip. Nothing wrong with that either. If Jenny and Stable want to load Orb up with saddlebags, 200 pounds of gear, and use him as a pack animal who are we to judge? It would be curious though.

Folks have said that they don't notice the load and that these bikes handle great with lots of gear on board. That's only true under leisurely riding conditions where the KTM could be exchanged with a Goldwing or Road King. My experience has shown otherwise off the beaten path or when riding at a more spirited pace. Weight is never your friend.

I'll give a recent trip as an example. Four bikes, nine days in Eastern Oregon, self-supported trip, mostly off pavement on an unfamiliar route.


One bike was a 990 Adventure with a competent rider but one that tends to bring the kitchen sink. KTM hard bags, top case, duffle, and a tank bag that wouldn't pass Frontier's carry-on limits. Besides all the weight, the bulk limits his ability to move around on the bike as needed to deal with difficult stretches.

Different trip, typical load.


Even our guy on a KLR had it easier. The other two of us have pared our multi-week, self-support loads down to about 35 pounds including the soft bags (not much more than empty aluminum bags + top case) without suffering too much.



On three occasions, he was unable to safely ride through tough spots. It was either unload the bike and hand carry the stuff or turn around and take an alternate route. Unload and carry posed risks because of the time required and we didn't want to ride unfamiliar terratory after dark. The alternate route presented fuel capacity problems. None of these would have been a problem for him without the big load.

Then there is the threat to body and machine caused by weight and bulk. There were several such times, each 50+ miles from the nearest paved road. Any of them could have caused debilitating injuries or broken bike a long way from EMS or a welder.


Many trips like this have tought me to lighten up. Sorry for my smart-ass ways and keep the rubber side down.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:53 PM   #4892
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Dropped mine on the circuit last sunday and can tell you it's surprisingly light to pick up!
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #4893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
Slight hijack, feel free to skip. I apologize for any hurt feelings I may have caused by poking a little light-hearted fun at the way some folks load up these high-performance bikes like Jed and the family on their way to California. I understand that, while I enjoy traveling fast and light, others get joy from taking their time with all the comforts. I have adopted this approach through experience, not from a lack of experience.

The new KTM Adventure is on my A-list because of all the things it can do. From all accounts it has a higher level of on-road performance and loses little from the last generation off road. I've spent time on the 990, watched the track day videos where they open a can of whoop-ass on crotch rockets, followed the '02 Dakar Rally, was impressed with Ned's 18th place finish in the '07 Baja 1000, and ridden with a few riders on 9xx Adventures and SEs that are able to blow past a pack of EXCs on open trails. Oh, and they are good at touring too.

So, what started all the was a photo of a 1190 with hard luggage. Nothing wrong with that. But they were not just aluminum bags, they were large bags, with a top case, and the owner was talking about just a weekend trip. Nothing wrong with that either. If Jenny and Stable want to load Orb up with saddlebags, 200 pounds of gear, and use him as a pack animal who are we to judge? It would be curious though.

Folks have said that they don't notice the load and that these bikes handle great with lots of gear on board. That's only true under leisurely riding conditions where the KTM could be exchanged with a Goldwing or Road King. My experience has shown otherwise off the beaten path or when riding at a more spirited pace. Weight is never your friend.

I'll give a recent trip as an example. Four bikes, nine days in Eastern Oregon, self-supported trip, mostly off pavement on an unfamiliar route.
Snip...

One bike was a 990 Adventure with a competent rider but one that tends to bring the kitchen sink. KTM hard bags, top case, duffle, and a tank bag that wouldn't pass Frontier's carry-on limits. Besides all the weight, the bulk limits his ability to move around on the bike as needed to deal with difficult stretches.

Different trip, typical load.
Snip...

Even our guy on a KLR had it easier. The other two of us have pared our multi-week, self-support loads down to about 35 pounds including the soft bags (not much more than empty aluminum bags + top case) without suffering too much.
Snip...

On three occasions, he was unable to safely ride through tough spots. It was either unload the bike and hand carry the stuff or turn around and take an alternate route. Unload and carry posed risks because of the time required and we didn't want to ride unfamiliar terratory after dark. The alternate route presented fuel capacity problems. None of these would have been a problem for him without the big load.

Then there is the threat to body and machine caused by weight and bulk. There were several such times, each 50+ miles from the nearest paved road. Any of them could have caused debilitating injuries or broken bike a long way from EMS or a welder.


Many trips like this have tought me to lighten up. Sorry for my smart-ass ways and keep the rubber side down.
I'd add to the anti-hard bag on the rough stuff list that a fall with softbags you get up and carry on, no harm done.

A fall with hardbags always carries the risk of damaging the locks/mounting points.

Sure you can bungee it back on, but how rough can you get after that without worrying about the thing?

I respect all your opinions and preferences and hope you have nothing but good times riding however you are comfortable, but for anything rough I'll stick with Wolfman, happily.

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Old 11-12-2013, 09:41 PM   #4894
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I actually run both.. Wolfmans for the panniers and a Givi trekker for the top case... Anything valuable and important I'll chuck in the top case, but my socks, undies, sleeping bag etc.. goes in the wolfmans..

Best of both worlds this way... I have heard of everything from broken locks to smashed ankles by running hard side panniers.. So I took that advice and went Wolfmans..
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:57 PM   #4895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_racer View Post
I actually run both.. Wolfmans for the panniers and a Givi trekker for the top case... Anything valuable and important I'll chuck in the top case, but my socks, undies, sleeping bag etc.. goes in the wolfmans..

Best of both worlds this way... I have heard of everything from broken locks to smashed ankles by running hard side panniers.. So I took that advice and went Wolfmans..
Agreed, topbox is a different thing.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #4896
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My soft panniers only carry food and water. I dont know why you need a change of underwear! lol

The last lot of 9xx pics that were posted in this thread were deleted, so hurry up and buy your 1190 already!
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:16 PM   #4897
4corners14
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I was almost with you and then.......

....and then you said,

"Folks have said that they don't notice the load and that these bikes handle great with lots of gear on board. That's only true under leisurely riding conditions where the KTM could be exchanged with a Goldwing or Road King. My experience has shown otherwise off the beaten path or when riding at a more spirited pace. Weight is never your friend."

And that comment is not only just your opinion, but complete and utter crap. You make these comments as if you know what the bikes and the riders capabilities are and lump all 990 riders in together. I have a Wing and as much as I like it for 2 up touring, I'm not taking it up Baby Head hill or over 12,000 foot passes in Colorado. I might not get there as fast as an EXC, but I'll get there. Oh, and a loaded 990 raced an EXC down that last Colorado pass on the way to the rally in September. Let's just say he had a fully loaded 990 climbing up his backside for about 5 miles of twisty downhill rocky road.....until he (EXC) almost lost it and pulled over shaking his head. One more thing, your buddies bike's not that loaded, you should cut him some slack.

But you're right about one thing.....the 1190R is my next bike for sure!

4corners14 screwed with this post 11-12-2013 at 11:38 PM Reason: Feeling guilty about taking this thread off track....
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:50 PM   #4898
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So, here are some news i got from KTM. They were really nice informing me about the changes on the '14 model.

Some of them are:
-Longer key
-Heat protector for the seat
-Side stand mounting
-New brushes for the central stand (whatever that means)
-Software fixes for the lights
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:47 AM   #4899
darrendeep6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4corners14 View Post
....and then you said,

"Folks have said that they don't notice the load and that these bikes handle great with lots of gear on board. That's only true under leisurely riding conditions where the KTM could be exchanged with a Goldwing or Road King. My experience has shown otherwise off the beaten path or when riding at a more spirited pace. Weight is never your friend."

And that comment is not only just your opinion, but complete and utter crap. You make these comments as if you know what the bikes and the riders capabilities are and lump all 990 riders in together. I have a Wing and as much as I like it for 2 up touring, I'm not taking it up Baby Head hill or over 12,000 foot passes in Colorado. I might not get there as fast as an EXC, but I'll get there. Oh, and a loaded 990 raced an EXC down that last Colorado pass on the way to the rally in September. Let's just say he had a fully loaded 990 climbing up his backside for about 5 miles of twisty downhill rocky road.....until he (EXC) almost lost it and pulled over shaking his head. One more thing, your buddies bike's not that loaded, you should cut him some slack.

But you're right about one thing.....the 1190R is my next bike for sure!
Um, the bike pictured has just about every bag or box an individual can put on a bike. Usually that means the individual is in store for a suffer fest in any significant off-road adventure. Unless the individual is extremely talented and could over come the weight issues associated with riding a bike laden with gear. However, most seasoned ADV riders would not load a bike that way. When someone loads a bike that way usually means they are inexperienced. YMMV
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:28 AM   #4900
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my comment (or insult if your skin has a similar density to a shrimp) was not about having enormous bags, it was however a light hearted prod at having bags that size for a "weekend" nothing else!
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:14 AM   #4901
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Originally Posted by darrendeep6 View Post
When someone loads a bike that way usually means they are inexperienced. YMMV
Where do you put panniers, topbox, tank bag and a tent if not in the positions pictured? Maybe I've been doing it wrong to?
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:47 AM   #4902
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Jo Pichler - has everything but the top-case. I would have a bigger duffle bag otherwise similar.


Womble_CH screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 09:55 AM Reason: 2nd pic
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #4903
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I would have to agree Nerb...

"Um, the bike pictured has just about every bag or box an individual can put on a bike. Usually that means the individual is in store for a suffer fest in any significant off-road adventure. Unless the individual is extremely talented and could over come the weight issues associated with riding a bike laden with gear. However, most seasoned ADV riders would not load a bike that way. When someone loads a bike that way usually means they are inexperienced. YMMV"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerb View Post
Where do you put panniers, topbox, tank bag and a tent if not in the positions pictured? Maybe I've been doing it wrong to?
This will be my last post on this topic on this thread...(collective sigh of relief from the crowd). I don't get offended for myself when people post the comments on what is right or wrong for bags or amount of gear. I've been packing bikes of all different kinds and sizes for 40 years. I pack what I need for the journey, which usually includes some "what if's" because at any given time I may be 50 miles from the nearest asphalt. I also pack more tools than normal for the same reason, and guess who usually has the means to help out another rider in my crew, or anyone else stuck out in the boonies?
What I get riled about is when someone posts a picture about their new bike or new bags or new whatever, and they're obviously excited about it, and someone in their all knowing "I know better than you" wisdom makes fun of the pic or the skillset of the rider. It doesn't matter that you come back later and say " it was my lighthearted attempt at humor". It's to late at that point. If you have an opinion about what you do and why.....that's great, that's what this site is for. Just don't spout of about how something "is", like it's the gospel, and we best change our thoughts to match yours or we must just be "inexperienced". I can't speak for anyone else, but basic manners were hammered in when I was growing up, and those comments would have been unacceptably rude.

Maybe it's just me.....or maybe that's why every fistfight in my life has been sticking up for someone else. I'm done now!
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:07 AM   #4904
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
So, here are some news i got from KTM. They were really nice informing me about the changes on the '14 model.

Some of them are:
-Longer key
-Heat protector for the seat
-Side stand mounting
-New brushes for the central stand (whatever that means)
-Software fixes for the lights
Why no mention of Bosch MSC?

That should help when riders have overloaded their bikes with heavy side panniers and top box that they shouldn't have.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:38 AM   #4905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4corners14 View Post
"Um, the bike pictured has just about every bag or box an individual can put on a bike. Usually that means the individual is in store for a suffer fest in any significant off-road adventure. Unless the individual is extremely talented and could over come the weight issues associated with riding a bike laden with gear. However, most seasoned ADV riders would not load a bike that way. When someone loads a bike that way usually means they are inexperienced. YMMV"



This will be my last post on this topic on this thread...(collective sigh of relief from the crowd). I don't get offended for myself when people post the comments on what is right or wrong for bags or amount of gear. I've been packing bikes of all different kinds and sizes for 40 years. I pack what I need for the journey, which usually includes some "what if's" because at any given time I may be 50 miles from the nearest asphalt. I also pack more tools than normal for the same reason, and guess who usually has the means to help out another rider in my crew, or anyone else stuck out in the boonies?
What I get riled about is when someone posts a picture about their new bike or new bags or new whatever, and they're obviously excited about it, and someone in their all knowing "I know better than you" wisdom makes fun of the pic or the skillset of the rider. It doesn't matter that you come back later and say " it was my lighthearted attempt at humor". It's to late at that point. If you have an opinion about what you do and why.....that's great, that's what this site is for. Just don't spout of about how something "is", like it's the gospel, and we best change our thoughts to match yours or we must just be "inexperienced". I can't speak for anyone else, but basic manners were hammered in when I was growing up, and those comments would have been unacceptably rude.

Maybe it's just me.....or maybe that's why every fistfight in my life has been sticking up for someone else. I'm done now!
Hey, let them start comparing body weight. It would be the natural next step

Let's get back to the 1190. There surely must be a loooong thread about luggage somewhere else.
My dealer is having a meeting with KTM today. It will be interesting to hear what treatment we prototype debuggers will get compared to the more lucky 2014 model owners.

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