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Old 09-24-2012, 07:21 PM   #766
wr37
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Well, it isn't the rally replica we have been waiting for, but on the up side it should crush the GS1200 like a bug. And really, do you think KTM will want to loose it's iconic dirt "ready to race" persona by not building a dirt worthy ADV bike. Here is my arm chair marketing thoughts. Release the 1190 ahead of the new GS, sicken all the on the fence 990 buyers into buying up leftover bikes, then release my 890 Rally (v twin built with Roger's new 450 top end).
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:41 PM   #767
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Man, there's so much whining about how KTM didn't make the 1190 into a giant dirt bike. For who? Let's think about this for a minute. It's not smart to ride a 500lb bike like it's a 250lb bike. The Paris Dakar quit running those bikes because it was too dangerous. The percentage of riders who take 990's off road is tiny, like probably less than 3-5% and that would be generous but the percentage of photos of people doing crazy things is like 90% - how many times are we gonna see that same photo of Jimmy Lewis jumping that same log? Another hundred?

Speaking of Jimmy here's a story for you: I went to the rally in Bend but my 990 is still not together (lord help me) and I took the Saturday class with Jimmy since I always know I can learn something new. At one point in the class when the students were running around Jimmy was toying with his 990 and a giant rock pile - putting the front wheel up and nudging it up. It was cool. His balance and feel are fantastic. Then he lost his footing and fell. His words: "That's what you get for being a Ding Dong."



I was on my Husaberg 450 and he asked to ride it. He came around and then just hopped over these giant rocks like it was nothing. Impressive.



When he handed me my bike back I asked if he was going to do it again on the 990 as I wanted to get a shot. His answer, "No, it's too easy to get hurt on the big bikes - it's not worth it"

But nooooooooooooooo - this crowd of hero's all expect KTM to make the, let's say, hundred or so ding dongs here their own personal bike. I can call you ding dongs because I have been one myself when I first got my 950 and I've done my share of stupid stuff with it. Cool, amazing, crazy stuff. But you're ding dongs. No, seriously, you are. Jimmy said so.

This:



Equals this:



So quit your whining. If you're concerned about weight just ditch that giant cat/exhaust and you'll lose 50lbs right there! If you're really concerned about weight why the hell are you riding an 1190cc dirt bike? Huh? Besides, those of you foolish enough to ride the bike like it's a dirt bike are also foolish enough to spend a fortune on skid plates, sky scraper tall Super Plush suspension, steering dampers etc. (Yes, glass is raining down in my house as I type) and you'll make the bike into a monster because you've been give a 150hp lump. That's the one thing none of us, despite trying, have been able to do is to get anything like that kind of power. The rest you can do yourself - the bones are there.

Let's be honest - 99% of BMW GS' never leave pavement and 95% of KTM 990's never do but 100% would like to imagine a day they'll gather up the skills, the vacation and the balls to ride out of that Starbucks parking lot and turn down a gravel road. Until then KTM has made a bike that they should have all along and they'll sell a bunch. Not, of course, to the ding dong market but that's okay because you're a bunch of whiners who'd complain about the price if they did make your dream bike. Sheeesh!

Gregor
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:59 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
....99% of BMW GS' never leave pavement and 95% of KTM 990's never do but 100% would like to imagine a day they'll gather up the skills.....
its always handy to bolster an arguement with some stats....are you running for congress by chance?
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:30 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
Let's be honest - 99% of BMW GS' never leave pavement and 95% of KTM 990's never do but 100% would like to imagine a day they'll gather up the skills, the vacation and the balls to ride out of that Starbucks parking lot and turn down a gravel road. Until then KTM has made a bike that they should have all along and they'll sell a bunch. Not, of course, to the ding dong market but that's okay because you're a bunch of whiners who'd complain about the price if they did make your dream bike. Sheeesh!

Gregor
Well said!
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:12 AM   #770
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Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
.........At one point in the class when the students were running around Jimmy was toying with his 990 and a giant rock pile - putting the front wheel up and nudging it up. It was cool. His balance and feel are fantastic. Then he lost his footing and fell. His words: "That's what you get for being a Ding Dong."


.....I was on my Husaberg 450 and he asked to ride it. He came around and then just hopped over these giant rocks like it was nothing. Impressive.

When he handed me my bike back I asked if he was going to do it again on the 990 as I wanted to get a shot. His answer, "No, it's too easy to get hurt on the big bikes - it's not worth it"

......

in order to prove what? what was the point of all this? I really don't get it. As if the 990 owners dream about crossing rock pilings. What I dream about, no husky 450 and no other bike for that matter can give me except the 990. which is not rock pile climbing (next time try with this one:
you will get better results.


and yes there are indeed a lot of 950/990 owners around the world that are using it for what it was meant to be used.

driving down a highway for 200 miles with dirt tires and not feel a thing, in order to start a serious off-roading for another 200 miles, and the next day to come back home with the same way and at the end to feel that this is routine.

unless you have the financial ability to take care of 3 bikes(including the husky).

no other bike with stock tires can do a track day and on the way home with the same tires, drive through the mountain that separates your house and the track. Or drive to work on Monday morning after the Sunday's 300 mile trail ride race.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:29 AM   #771
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I'm headed out this morning to ride 120 miles of mostly curvy slab to ride 30 miles of unpaved forest roads leading to the top of a mountain and a dam in my general area. That's what I got my 990A for...it's the best.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:36 AM   #772
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Originally Posted by sakurama View Post

This:



Equals this:


A little thread highjack. Gregor care to tell that story?
i have jumped many times with my bike and you got me thinking i shouldnt.
Was it a bad landing? not good suspension?
was the damaged done because of bottoming out?
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:20 AM   #773
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Post implies it was a 2003 model...these had 'weak' swingarms which were redesigned in later models.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:40 AM   #774
sakurama
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Originally Posted by GZERO View Post
A little thread highjack. Gregor care to tell that story?
i have jumped many times with my bike and you got me thinking i shouldnt.
Was it a bad landing? not good suspension?
was the damaged done because of bottoming out?
Yes to most of that. It was an 04 and it was my buddies. His suspension was too soft. We were on a cross country tour to the Elko rally hence the bags. We'd done a ton of silly stuff along the way like Rollins Pass which guys had tried on GS' and not been able to do. This was the crux of Rollins just before the abandoned railroad bridge. This was one of the best trips I'd done on the bike and certainly a trip no other bike could do. Rode from NYC to Elko and over this:



Anyway we came to these dunes and just pulled off and started playing. He did the jump a few times but when I laid down to do some shots he hit it quite a bit harder and maybe caught more of a kick. Anyway, he flew about 40-50' about 15' up and landed perfect but the suspension compressed completely and then the rest of the forces went into the swingarm which ripped free. He broke his shoulder and flew home.

I guess my point is/was that lots of people are complaining that KTM has gone soft or isn't making a hard core bike and I don't see that. 150hp is hardcore and fair bit more than a v-strom. They can't possibly build a bike for the crazy contingent that wants to do crazy things but the new bike is certainly progress. I'm sure I'll get one at some point and I'm really looking forward to what a lot of the guys on this board are going to do to them but really, they took aim squarely in the middle of Ducati and BMW and that was a really smart thing to do.

Gregor

sakurama screwed with this post 09-25-2012 at 09:50 AM
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:46 AM   #775
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Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
So quit your whining. If you're concerned about weight just ditch that giant cat/exhaust and you'll lose 50lbs right there! If you're really concerned about weight why the hell are you riding an 1190cc dirt bike? Huh? Besides, those of you foolish enough to ride the bike like it's a dirt bike are also foolish enough to spend a fortune on skid plates, sky scraper tall Super Plush suspension, steering dampers etc. (Yes, glass is raining down in my house as I type) and you'll make the bike into a monster because you've been give a 150hp lump. That's the one thing none of us, despite trying, have been able to do is to get anything like that kind of power. The rest you can do yourself - the bones are there.

Let's be honest - 99% of BMW GS' never leave pavement and 95% of KTM 990's never do but 100% would like to imagine a day they'll gather up the skills, the vacation and the balls to ride out of that Starbucks parking lot and turn down a gravel road. Until then KTM has made a bike that they should have all along and they'll sell a bunch. Not, of course, to the ding dong market but that's okay because you're a bunch of whiners who'd complain about the price if they did make your dream bike. Sheeesh!

Gregor
Oh so fucking true.

I'm one of those ding dongs. I beat the piss out of my fully loaded 990 on some steep rocky singletrack a few weeks ago. Sure it can do it but why not just use the right tool for the job... Pack lighter and use a 450 if you really need to ride the stupid stuff. I'll be sticking my Giantloop on my soon to be had 300 XCW if I need to get to those spots to camp.

And by pack light, I mean haul Rum (no mix) instead of beer and leave the coffee grinder behind....

I completely understand why the 1190 is coming, the BMW is wildly successful.

Wesley J
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:49 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by orange spy View Post
no other bike with stock tires can do a track day and on the way home with the same tires, drive through the mountain that separates your house and the track. Or drive to work on Monday morning after the Sunday's 300 mile trail ride race.
Actually, this is completely rider dependent. I have a buddy who would routinely do that on a VStrom.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #777
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I wonder, is there a clue from the riders of RC8 concerning the consumption? With a so called 23 liters tank and on the KTM site mentioned "low consumption", do you see a chance for a 350-400 km range?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:36 AM   #778
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Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
but really, they took aim squarely in the middle of Ducati and BMW and that was a really smart thing to do.
I don't see anyone - even those faux dirt warriors claiming KTM has gone soft - saying it's not a smart business choice.

I think the people who use their 9x0 mostly off-road are saying they don't need 150hp (even if you can turn it off) and would have rather had less hp and a major diet. Of course such people are a minute segment of the target market.

I think the standard (19/17") version makes total sense. It competes directly with the Multistrada/Super Tenere which inexplicably keep winning all the adventure comparisons.

Could KTM have taken a different direction for the 21/18 R version is my question.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:00 PM   #779
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...Could KTM have taken a different direction for the 21/18 R version is my question.
I think the 1190R should've been....
...not a different direction at all,...just maybe a little bit better aim

I think the standard 1190 is likely spot-on for it's intended audience.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:20 PM   #780
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...not a different direction at all,...just maybe a little bit better aim
Like an automatic-deploying-airbag crash protection system



Hey AJ
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