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Old 05-06-2012, 03:16 PM   #31
TallRob
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Playing devil's advocate here. What if this guy is so off his rocker that the famous damage that we see were "enhanced" for argument sake? Belt sander anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
Wayne actually hasn't looked at my gear - he wont. When I tell him for instance the velco is falling off, (and I am looking right at as it is in my hands) he tells me it is not because a.) he uses the best velcro on the planet and b. he just got a suit in to restitch the velcro after 27 (I think is what he said) years.

Of course I tried to return the gear before the crash.

And really important is that Wayne's gear is so, so much better than nothing! I absolutely believe you Kainic when you say it "saved your hide" - it made a HUGE difference when I crashed as oppossed to wearing nothing. However, as far as my shoulder and elbow, a cheap Joe rocked jacket THAT FIT certainly would have done better for impact protection. Wayne often doesn't get it right the first or second time even when he does the measuring himself. How big of a deal that is certainly depends on if it is a primary suit or a second/third suit, or how far away from him you live.
Ordering from him is not like going into a shop where you can try on a jacket and see how it fits.

For me, since I didn't "bow" to Wayne and admit that his sizing mistakes were really mine quickly enough he wouldn't work on it. As far as armor placement goes he insists anyone in my country could get it altered in 5 minutes and tells me it not true when I tell the reality is I"ve been to about 20 taylors and no one wants to work on that fabric.

So Wayne's gear is definately better than nothing, but of course it's not the only stuff out there, it's not the best stuff out there, it certainly is not the most comfortable out there, and you'd be high to think it's going to fit better than something you can try on and judge then and there how it fits. But you do get to pay more for it though!



Here's a motoport airmesh (according to Wayne stronger than the stretch) after a 40 mph dump. The owner had a good attitude and thought Wayne's gear did pretty all right FOR A MESH JACKET. Of course it's better than a flannel shirt! And its probably as good as many other mesh jackets. It just isn't the best stuff out there, and certainly not the best for the money.



Here is my burn thru that happened at about 40 mph. Wayne says this damage isn't serious and that what burned thru is not the abrasion part of the jacket. I find that to be bogus as what is left feels very thin, and if that thin stuff is what is protecting our hide and next to our skin why wouldn't he leave that heavy, nasty uncomfortable shell off?




I'm taking the time to post this as Wayne is a semi snake oil salesman and I'd rather not see others get burned by him. I say "semi" as his product is a legitimate product that does something but it's not nearly as good as he claims, ECSPECIALLY in comparison to all the other gear that is out there. As you can see from his previous post, he tends to not only exagerate what his product can do but really dis all the other gear out there on the market leaving you a moron if you chose anything else.
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallRob View Post
Playing devil's advocate here. What if this guy is so off his rocker that the famous damage that we see were "enhanced" for argument sake? Belt sander anyone?
This is a 3 or 4 year old fight. Ricky and Wayne have been going at it for a while
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:50 PM   #33
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Whether Ricky's story is true or not, the way Wayne chose to respond makes it look distinctly like Wayne
might not be enjoyable to deal with in the event there was a significant difference of opinion between
the customer and Wayne.

If I were in Wayne's position, I'd have given Ricky a full refund and smiled while I did it, even if it meant
I lost money. But then I am aware how important it is to avoid scenarios such as the one we have here
between Ricky and Wayne, precisely because of the damage that can be done by one disgruntled customer.

Aside from that, wow, this stuff has all the styling of a grocery bag.

It'sNotTheBike screwed with this post 05-06-2012 at 03:57 PM
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Trophy Mike View Post
I've heard there's this display at the Smithsonian...




That was pretty good, TrophyMike.
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:02 PM   #35
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If ricky is whining about that less than dime sized abrasion on his blue/black jacket after a 40 mph get off, I think I've heard enough. . ..

I've concluded that ricky is an .

That is all.
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
Whether Ricky's story is true or not, the way Wayne chose to respond makes it look distinctly like Wayne
might not be enjoyable to deal with in the event there was a significant difference of opinion between
the customer and Wayne.

If I were in Wayne's position, I'd have given Ricky a full refund and smiled while I did it, even if it meant
I lost money. But then I am aware how important it is to avoid scenarios such as the one we have here
between Ricky and Wayne, precisely because of the damage that can be done by one disgruntled customer.

Aside from that, wow, this stuff has all the styling of a grocery bag.
I agree, but also really respect Wayne for putting himself out there. No doubt, refunding the $$ would've defused the situation.
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:35 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=rickypanecatyl;18623046]



Here is my burn thru that happened at about 40 mph. Wayne says this damage isn't serious and that what burned thru is not the abrasion part of the jacket. I find that to be bogus as what is left feels very thin, and if that thin stuff is what is protecting our hide and next to our skin why wouldn't he leave that heavy, nasty uncomfortable shell off?



/QUOTE]

Ricky's complaint after a 40 mph get off, for posterity. . ..

(fwiw, that stitching looks awfully intact. . ...)
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #38
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Customer Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
Whether Ricky's story is true or not, the way Wayne chose to respond makes it look distinctly like Wayne
might not be enjoyable to deal with in the event there was a significant difference of opinion between
the customer and Wayne.

If I were in Wayne's position, I'd have given Ricky a full refund and smiled while I did it, even if it meant
I lost money. But then I am aware how important it is to avoid scenarios such as the one we have here
between Ricky and Wayne, precisely because of the damage that can be done by one disgruntled customer.

Aside from that, wow, this stuff has all the styling of a grocery bag.
Plus One

So if this has been going on for years why wouldn't you just refund the money and be done with it. So much effort in just avoiding making Ricky happy. I've a Motorport I bought on the FM and I really like it and would buy another perhaps direct but seriously customer service is as important as the product.

Only Wayne and Ricky know the whole story, both sides. Wayne has the right to refuse service like anyone else.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #39
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Customer service is important!.....but,big difference in stating your experience,be it a good experience or bad vs. going on and on and on and possibly slandering a person.Never give into service extortion....once it starts,others follow.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:51 PM   #40
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thats what that guy is doing to Wayne,,,,,,,,he is using this forum to extort..........Thats why I no longer trust a word he says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog13 View Post
Customer service is important!.....but,big difference in stating your experience,be it a good experience or bad vs. going on and on and on and possibly slandering a person.Never give into service extortion....once it starts,others follow.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:04 PM   #41
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^

But this isn't the first time we've heard of Wayne's infamously poor customer service. It's all peaches and cream until the product gets into the hands of the customer and is paid for, but any problems after that point seem to be seen as challenges by Wayne. He has a not so great reputation of claiming mistakes and errors are the customer's fault rather than his own. After the money is spent, the helpful attitude seems to disappear. This has happened more times than I'd like to ever consider spending that much money on his gear.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:20 PM   #42
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Novarider - That quarter size burn thru is not in the top 10 complaints I have with Waynes gear. For what it's worth though, the entire jackets and pants are scuffed up from the 40 mph get off. Though they now look a bit scruffy, I don't think the integrity of the fabric is compromised there. If I cared more about looks it'd be a bigger deal to me that Wayne sent the jacket in the wrong color even though his work order shows the color I asked for.

The main points on the burn thru are:
a.) Wayne insists it can't burn thru at that speed and it does.
b.) As the product is fugly, uncomfortable, expensive the abrasion protection really is the main selling point. A friend in a taichi jacket here had a get off at twice the speed with no burn thrus a year ago or so. I know it's not really fair to compare accidents head to head as there are so many variables involved. However it was so amazed to see a jacket do not only just as well, but better being that it is 1/3 the price, 1/2 the weight, 5X cooler, 10X more comfortable and looks better.


I just read an interesting glove review here:

http://journal.drfaulken.com/motopor...-glove-review/


Some good quotes...

Quote:
I’d also like to take a moment to beef with Motoport’s marketing strategy of not allowing you to order by traditional letter sizes. You have to go through an elaborate system of measuring yourself before you place an order. In the case of the gloves, I had to trace each of my hands and then email the scans to Motoport. To me, this means I am getting a custom pair of gloves based on the peculiarities of my hands. This made me feel comfortable spending more money than with another manufacturer who had “off-the-shelf” sizing. I was very disappointed to receive my gloves in size extra large. I would have NEVER ordered an XL glove, having owned four other pairs of gloves from three different manufacturers in size medium or large. The Held gloves are number sized, which is great for people like me who could fit in one or two size ranges.
Come on, Cycleport. If you are going to make me take measurements and trace my hands, at least provide me with custom-fit gear. If you are going to send me letter-sized gloves and use letter-sized jacket and pants as a starting point for your products, just ask me what fucking size I wear. The measuring games are a farce, and insinuate that your products are custom when they are not.
That was my experience as well. I also ordered some gloves for my wife and went thru an elaborate process of tracing her hands and faxing the trace. I had a ruler in the scan and called a few times in the process to make sure I was doing it right. My elaborate work pointed to the fact my wife needed large gloves! :) Wayne told me his system was off and so he was going to send out some mediums.


Here's a pretty universal complaint with Waynes customer service:

Quote:
You speak correctly about their extreme reluctance to accept criticism. He shuts down completely and assumes an immediate negative tone, as if he stopped maturing somewhere around 16. It’s not just nerd-anger or old-geezer frustration… kinda weird.
Note: Almost all of us who have dealt with Wayne, spoken to him on the phone, gone to his shop in San Marcos agree he is a super friendly guy who is "helpful" (though sometimes giving untrue information) and enthusiastic about his product. In my experience, most small shops where the owner works hands on and is enthusiastic about his product procuce excelllent results. Wayne was the exception and so I was shocked.
He is also super friendly after the sale, provided you are talking to him to praise his product or workmanship or maybe complain about me!
However, it's also pretty universal that he does not accept any criticism of his product and is notoriously flamable to quote MuddButt. You'll find time and time again customers trying to work with him give up. He uses that to endorse his product saying he's never had to fix/repair any mistakes that he has made.

In the following quote from BMW K12rebel, from Wayne's perspective he would think he did an awesome job on his jacket not realizing that his customer just gave up.

Quote:
I bought the Ultra II jacket last year!
I had some issues with their sizing, but after speaking to Wayne on the phone and he said they can adjust the sizing but for a charge.
They reckon since it was tailored to my measurements I gave them which I did not agree with, they can not take it back but only alter it if I pay for the alterations.
I decided to just live with it, since after already spending over $670 for the jacket I didn’t want to invest another cent into that jacket!

Melting test:

Quote:
Pulling apart a few scraps of their Kevlar mesh material has also proven interesting. Only 1 in 6 threads are actual Kevlar. The other 5 threads melt easily, which he markets as an impossibility. (I used my naked bike’s header as it was warming up. About 200 degrees, using an infrared thermometer.) Melted exactly like para-cord or any other nylon.
He swears by his gear’s superiority over others using nylon-coated thread… yet his melts just as quickly.
The standard armor is decent for its size, but not great.
The thicker upgrade is just simply too expensive for its construction (it’s simply another layer glued onto the standard stuff, then trimmed to size).
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:27 PM   #43
It'sNotTheBike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frog13 View Post
Never give into service extortion....once it starts,others follow.

I vehemently disagree. Few people are the sort who will take advantage of the good will of a merchant or
a manufacturer. Most people are pretty decent. It's a small minority who are the bad actors in this world.
They are noticed far out of proportion to the rest of us, simply because good behavior tends to be ignored.

You seem to be saying that if Wayne gave Ricky a full refund that Wayne would be opening the
floodgates for his company to be abused by other customers. Seriously, I don't see that
happening for a number of reasons. First, most folks seem to be happy with Wayne's products.
Second, most people just want a fair deal, and they aren't interested in screwing someone else
any more than they are interested in being screwed by someone else.

FInally, if we all agree that Ricky is attempting to extort Wayne, then we can examine how far that
line of reasoning could go. I would guess that Ricky would quit moaning if Wayne gave him a full refund.
After that, continued complaints by RIcky would look like insane behavior to all of us. So it's not as though
if Wayne gave Ricky a refund that Ricky would be able to make infinite demands on Wayne. The refund
would bring a logical end to it. And last but not least, the warranty policy for Motoport which was copied and
pasted earlier in this thread seems to indicate that a refund would not be out of order for a customer who
is completely and utterly dissatisfied. Wayne's apparent refusal to make good on the promises in his policy
doesn't look too positive in terms of Wayne's company's reputation.

Wayne's refusal to provide Ricky with relief in the form of refunding the money Ricky paid for the product(s)
might be a victory for Wayne in the sense that Wayne "drew a line in the sand" and stood his ground, but
in the larger scheme of things it looks like Wayne can at times be an obdurate and obstinate person to deal
with and that he makes promises in his printed warranty that he does not always honor when push comes to
shove. Really, it looks like both Wayne and Ricky have acted in less than optimal ways, and in the end I have
to conclude that far more energy has probably been spent on this by both Wayne and Ricky than the Motoport
products could possibly be worth. Time IS money. Best to put the situation to bed in a decisive manner and then
move on with life.

Sometimes you have to lose in order to win. Ask anyone who has been through a nasty divorce. In such
situations sometimes the best thing to do is agree to things that make your blood boil in order that you can get
on with life and head toward positive things. It seems both Ricky and Wayne have not yet learned this lesson.

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Old 05-06-2012, 07:43 PM   #44
It'sNotTheBike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallRob View Post
thats what that guy is doing to Wayne,,,,,,,,he is using this forum to extort..........Thats why I no longer trust a word he says.

Exactly how is expecting Wayne to honor the terms of his warranty "extortion" ?

TallRob, you are using words you do not understand. Anyone with a brain is not going
to see someone attempting to get warranty coverage as a person who is attempting extortion.

One thing is for sure, Motoport's reputation is not looking so good in this thread. Most of the people
coming to Wayne's defense couldn't argue their way out of a wet paper bag, and there has been little
or no credible evidence which makes it look like Wayne has a good case for ignoring his customers who have
complaints.

I have no affiliation with ANY company which makes or sells riding gear, nor do I own any Motoport gear.
More to the point, I am certain that after reading Wayne's response I will never own any Motoport
riding gear. Expensive products should be backed up by nothing but the very very best in customer service,
and I don't see that happening here.

It'sNotTheBike screwed with this post 05-06-2012 at 07:54 PM
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:51 PM   #45
frog13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
I vehemently disagree. Few people are the sort who will take advantage of the good will of a merchant or
a manufacturer. Most people are pretty decent. It's a small minority who are the bad actors in this world.
They are noticed far out of proportion to the rest of us, simply because good behavior tends to be ignored.

You seem to be saying that if Wayne gave Ricky a full refund that Wayne would be opening the
floodgates for his company to be abused by other customers. Seriously, I don't see that
happening for a number of reasons. First, most folks seem to be happy with Wayne's products.
Second, most people just want a fair deal, and they aren't interested in screwing someone else
any more than they are interested in being screwed by someone else.

FInally, if we all agree that Ricky is attempting to extort Wayne, then we can examine how far that
line of reasoning could go. I would guess that Ricky would quit moaning if Wayne gave him a full refund.
After that, continued complaints by RIcky would look like insane behavior to all of us. So it's not as though
if Wayne gave Ricky a refund that Ricky would be able to make infinite demands on Wayne. The refund
would bring a logical end to it. And last but not least, the warranty policy for Motoport which was copied and
pasted earlier in this thread seems to indicate that a refund would not be out of order for a customer who
is completely and utterly dissatisfied. Wayne's apparent refusal to make good on the promises in his policy
doesn't look too positive in terms of Wayne's company's reputation.

Wayne's refusal to provide Ricky with relief in the form of refunding the money Ricky paid for the product(s)
might be a victory for Wayne in the sense that Wayne "drew a line in the sand" and stood his ground, but
in the larger scheme of things it looks like Wayne can at times be an obdurate and obstinate person to deal
with and that he makes promises in his printed warranty that he does not always honor when push comes to
shove. Really, it looks like both Wayne and Ricky have acted in less than optimal ways, and in the end I have
to conclude that far more energy has probably been spent on this by both Wayne and Ricky than the Motoport
products could possibly be worth. Time IS money. Best to put a situation to bed in a decisive manner and then
move on with life.

Sometimes you have to lose in order to win. Ask anyone who has been through a nasty divorce. In such
situations sometimes the best thing to do is agree to things that make your blood boil in order that you can get
on with life and head toward positive things. It seems both Ricky and Wayne have not yet learned this lesson.
Are you kidding....meaning your second sentence. All anyone has to do is take a little bit of time and examine just a few legal cases....few people,yea right. Last paragraph, third sentence.Never agree to things soley for appeasement....have some grit.....agreed.....put the sutuation to bed.
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