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Old 05-02-2012, 11:32 AM   #166
JimVonBaden
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Like I said, no one will convince you, stats, nothing will convince you that your cherished old bikes are not just as good.

Making judgements with dollars is NOT relevant. The old BMWs were just as expensive in their day. Oh, and anyone who thinks an old BMW didn't have issues, or for that matter old UJM's, is again burrying their head!

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Old 05-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Like I said, no one will convince you, stats, nothing will convince you that your cherished old bikes are not just as good.

Making judgements with dollars is NOT relevant. The old BMWs were just as expensive in their day. Oh, and anyone who thinks an old BMW didn't have issues, or for that matter old UJM's, is again burrying their head!

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Old 05-02-2012, 11:36 AM   #168
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The most comfortable bikes I have had all had thick flat seats.
The worst were ones that locked you in place.

Twin rear shocks were easy to adjust for a passenger, and did keep the saddle bags off the wheel.

I think half the stuff done to modern bikes is just for style.



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Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
Comfortable, long, flat seat allows a single rider to slide about on longer trips, significantly improving comfort. Very comfortable upright riding position with leg room, decent seat height, and again all-day comfort. Easy to sling saddlebags over the seat, and the shocks help to keep things out of the wheel without a lot of fancy mounting gear. Passengers aren't perched way up high and in an awkward position, and they have a nice strap to hold onto. Much more secure and comfortable for a passenger. Decent sized gas tank for longer rides. Lack of plastic shrouding on engine makes servicing easier, bikes look better. I'd rather look at the engine than plastic and graphics. Less stuff to bust up if you drop the bike too. Fenders that actually work to keep water and crap off you and the motorcycle--important if you ride in all weather and long distance. Lower exhaust keeps them away from you and passenger and your saddle bags. Can add a windscreen if you want more protection or go naked if you don't--isn't predetermined by the manufacturer like on a lot of bikes. There are lots of little things that make the "standard" a great format.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:37 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
In the style of UJM was what I was intending.

I prefer a flatter seat, or at least one that doesnt lock me in. When my knees start throbbing, I like to slide back, pretty hard to do locked in.

I concur. I am Tall so I generally build my seat up and shape it for “Me” It does have the added benefit of making it easier to move fore and aft.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:44 AM   #170
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It was the final drive thing wasn't it...

I know BMW's are expensive, back in 1977 a BMW R100/7 cost almost twice as much as a Honda CB750 and the cost/benefit ratio was rapidly disappearing. I think the /7's have held up a little better and can be re-built a lot easier. Nowadays, a BMW is just more expensive than a Honda and I can't see too many people passionately rebuilding a K1200GTL in 30 years.

If you think a motorcycle is just a form of transportation and you want functionality... well, maybe you should be driving a Honda Fit.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:12 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Wait, you are adding a slew of modern performance parts to an old bike, then saying the bike is just as good as a new bike?

Seriously, no one will convince you, but I have had lots of old and new bikes. I will take new every time. I don't want to HAVE to work on an old bike, adding a ton of performance upgrades just to get it sort of OK in the power, handling and braking departments.

No 30 year old bike can touch a modern bike in performance, handling and braking without a lot of work. Exceptions exist though, the modern retro Triumphs, Guzzies and KLRs pretty much are not significantly better then 20+ year old versions of themselves.

Like I said, no point in bringing it to a discussion, you have your mind set.

Jim
I agree with Jim.

I've had a '72 CB750 and a '79 CBX. The brakes were absolutely no comparison to what I have on my '87 CBR1000F and that is a joke compared to my 2010 BMW.

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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Funny you pick the CB750. That was the standard I was referring to. My brother owned a low mileage one and I rode it a couple times. I know they are very popular, but that bike handled like crap, and the brakes were not very good even comparred to my Triumph Scrambler.

I guess it also depends on the rider. If you ride casually, don't push the bike hard at all, you might not notice the difference between old and new.

On cruisers, old ones are down right scarey, and new ones are just merely poor handling, IMHO. So maybe it is just me.

Jim
You'd have to really not be pushing it to not notice the differences in new versus old. I'm not a very good rider and I was really not a very good rider in the '70's and even I could tell that the CB750's handling sucked. I love that bike. But it was not a good handling or braking machine.

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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
I would hope not since they are not from Japan.


There are old standards and new standards. To say a long flat seat is more comfortable is a little silly IMO. I just rode one on Saturday and while I had fun it was anything but "comfortable".
A long flat seat is the opposite of comfortable. Call me crazy but by far the most comfortable seat I've been on is my current thin-plywood-seated BMW. I don't need a couch under my ass to be comfy on a bike and it's more likely I'll need to modify a soft, long flat seat to be even bearable. And, even on my "locked in" seating on the S1000RR I have about 8-10 cms of movement if I want to use it. (I do agree the rear seat is a complete joke but then I stopped trying to pick up chicks at bars 20 years ago and no one rides the back of my bike anyways).

I love older bikes. A '50's Vincent or BMW or a late '60's Norton is high on my lust after list. But I realize they are seriously compromised in every way in comparisson to a modern bike.

I am a far better rider on my newer bike precisely because it handles, accelerates and brakes so much better than my old rides.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:38 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Griffin44 View Post
I agree with Jim.

I've had a '72 CB750 and a '79 CBX. The brakes were absolutely no comparison to what I have on my '87 CBR1000F and that is a joke compared to my 2010 BMW.



You'd have to really not be pushing it to not notice the differences in new versus old. I'm not a very good rider and I was really not a very good rider in the '70's and even I could tell that the CB750's handling sucked. I love that bike. But it was not a good handling or braking machine.



A long flat seat is the opposite of comfortable. Call me crazy but by far the most comfortable seat I've been on is my current thin-plywood-seated BMW. I don't need a couch under my ass to be comfy on a bike and it's more likely I'll need to modify a soft, long flat seat to be even bearable. And, even on my "locked in" seating on the S1000RR I have about 8-10 cms of movement if I want to use it. (I do agree the rear seat is a complete joke but then I stopped trying to pick up chicks at bars 20 years ago and no one rides the back of my bike anyways).

I love older bikes. A '50's Vincent or BMW or a late '60's Norton is high on my lust after list. But I realize they are seriously compromised in every way in comparisson to a modern bike.
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I'll say the opposite. Flat seats are the best for long rides. You can scoot up front for a while, sit farther back and lean into the high speed wind, slide all the way back and use the rear pegs, then back up front again. Sit for a while with one foot on the front peg, the other on the rear, there are unlimited combinations. I can go twice as long without stopping on my old Suzukis than I can on the BMW. My biggest bitch about the modern bikes is that you can't do this without sitting on the hump between the front and rear seat, to sit on the rear seat is impossible, it's up too high. Handling braking, and especially power are much better on anything modern, but I keep old bikes around for the longer rides, or just for a day spend doing errands around town, it's just so much more comfortable..

The new stuff is the most comfy for two up days, but solo I'll take a well made flat seat any day.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
I'll say the opposite. Flat seats are the best for long rides. You can scoot up front for a while, sit farther back and lean into the high speed wind, slide all the way back and use the rear pegs, then back up front again. Sit for a while with one foot on the front peg, the other on the rear, there are unlimited combinations. I can go twice as long without stopping on my old Suzukis than I can on the BMW. My biggest bitch about the modern bikes is that you can't do this without sitting on the hump between the front and rear seat, to sit on the rear seat is impossible, it's up too high. Handling braking, and especially power are much better on anything modern, but I keep old bikes around for the longer rides, or just for a day spend doing errands around town, it's just so much more comfortable..

The new stuff is the most comfy for two up days, but solo I'll take a well made flat seat any day.

I've just never found one that didn't chafe the hell out of the tops of my thighs or gave me numb ass, or both. My ass is good for 10 hours or so on a hard narrow seat without discomfort.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
If you think a motorcycle is just a form of transportation and you want functionality... well, maybe you should be driving a Honda Fit.
I think a motorcycle is often my only form of transportation, hence I want functionality.

When one rides 365/7, functionality isn't a luxury, it's common sense.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:57 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Like I said, no one will convince you, stats, nothing will convince you that your cherished old bikes are not just as good.

Making judgements with dollars is NOT relevant. The old BMWs were just as expensive in their day. Oh, and anyone who thinks an old BMW didn't have issues, or for that matter old UJM's, is again burrying their head!

Jim
On a fook en I phone so I'm not sure who your posting to, but I think the point is that old bikes were not as bad as your claiming as well. Not saying new bikes aren't better, just that the ones I rode werent something to be terrified of

You probably love ABS and FI, for me I can take it or leave it.
Probably the Guzzi V7 would suit me fine these days.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:27 PM   #176
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That's completely fine, but a V twin with the red line over 12,000rpm is still a better engine than a V twin with the red line at what... 6,000rpm? You can not say the machine hasn't any advantages just because you don't use them.

Better for who? 12,000 RPM is completely useless to me. What Im saying is, there is no advantage for me.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
"To claim that brake and fork technology haven't improved is to put ones head up their rear."

1. Track day? If I wanted to ride on a track I would ride a race bike, I suspect that Rossi's race bike would make a pretty sucky street bike for 99.9% of riders.

2. I seem to recall mentioning that a 1978 CB750 K10 with new forks and brakes would be just tits. Eddie Lawson's bike in 1982 had really good brakes, my Guzzi has really good brakes (I doubt that I will ever use them to their potential) and they are the same as the ones that were available since the 80's. I don't think they have improved much (for normal people) over the good stuff then in the last 20 years.

3. I said that "very few" bikes represent much of an improvement, that means for a regular rider on the street. That R1200r is today's standard and is a nice bike, but Joe Regular is never going to come near the bike's capabilities and the last time I checked that bike wasn't exactly cheap. By the way, is that final drive unit a big improvement over the one in the /7?



I agree, it's not like the huge steps taken in automobiles since the 80's.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #178
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Brakes

The much loved CB750F had a stopping ditance of 162 to 174 feet from 60 mph.

A new FZ6 standard stops in 116 feet,

The average mini van stps in a bit more that 130 feet.

The thing that most makes me nervous riding any of my old bikes is how poor the brakes are, doesn't stop me from putting miles on the old bikes, and they get the most looks and comments. Just getting groceries the other day had a couple and another guy come up and shoot the breeze. Never happens on the 05. But I don't care when it falls over either.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:51 PM   #179
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The much loved CB750F had a stopping ditance of 162 to 174 feet from 60 mph.

A new FZ6 standard stops in 116 feet,

The average mini van stps in a bit more that 130 feet.

The thing that most makes me nervous riding any of my old bikes is how poor the brakes are, doesn't stop me from putting miles on the old bikes, and they get the most looks and comments. Just getting groceries the other day had a couple and another guy come up and shoot the breeze. Never happens on the 05. But I don't care when it falls over either.

You probably want to stay off a KLR then.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:58 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
On a fook en I phone so I'm not sure who your posting to, but I think the point is that old bikes were not as bad as your claiming as well. Not saying new bikes aren't better, just that the ones I rode werent something to be terrified of
I'm not claiming they were bad, remember, I love old bikes too. I am just saying they are nowhere near as good as the new ones.

Quote:
You probably love ABS and FI, for me I can take it or leave it.
Probably the Guzzi V7 would suit me fine these days.
I have repeatedly said ABS was not the point, or even figured into this discussion. Whether or not I like them means nothing, except that FI tends to be much less maintenance, reliability of FI V Carbs is a wash IMHO.

Jim
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