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Old 05-04-2012, 07:10 AM   #151
perterra
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Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Another place we differ, I don't really like people on the back, if she wants to ride along, she can get her own bike.

I suspect we differ in plenty of ways.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #152
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For me, it's not how much total power is available, but how it's delivered in the real world, I don't ride numbers, I ride a bike.

If I were choosing a bike for long, high mileage days, I would want an engine that delivered its best torque torque at low rpm, not at high rpm.

I would want the power I actually use to be smooth and relaxing, not nervous and jerky.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
For me, it's not how much total power is available, but how it's delivered in the real world, I don't ride numbers, I ride a bike.

If I were choosing a bike for long, high mileage days, I would want an engine that delivered its best torque torque at low rpm, not at high rpm.

I would want the power I actually use to be smooth and relaxing, not nervous and jerky.
That's why I like big singles and twins.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:02 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Matter or taste and economy.

Most "sport" tourers aren't very sporty, this is the reason I ride distances on a Standard.

So the sport tourers keep getting bigger with a million gizmos and gadgets and for all they are great at eating miles, not so great at turning corners. I remember not long ago when sport tourers were things like Katanas and Thudercats that were not only sporty they were 600cc varieties as well. The Triumph Sprint and the VFR, and both have been either cancelled or modded int uselessness.

Most "sport tourers" are really tourers that aren't harley...period.
Interesting observations. I agree with you.

I hear a lot of folks decrying high horse power inline fours (or triples) as having lots of horsepower but that it's "not usable on the street". I suppose it depends on how you ride. I very much like the fact that my bike delivers peak power high in the rpm range. When I want to go faster, I want to twist the throttle, not short shift the gears to keep it in the power band.

I haven't ridden a lot of twins. I had a parallel twin but didn't like it. I've ridden HD's and BMW twins and didn't like them either. It felt very odd to me that the bike's power fell off as you climb the tach. It just didn't seem "normal" to me. I like the feeling of the power continuing to build until you hit redline.

And cruising at 8,000 rpm is normal, for me. (well, closer to 7k I suppose).

Interesting thread. I've learned a few things from it.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:22 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Griffin44 View Post
Interesting observations. I agree with you.

I hear a lot of folks decrying high horse power inline fours (or triples) as having lots of horsepower but that it's "not usable on the street". I suppose it depends on how you ride. I very much like the fact that my bike delivers peak power high in the rpm range. When I want to go faster, I want to twist the throttle, not short shift the gears to keep it in the power band.

I haven't ridden a lot of twins. I had a parallel twin but didn't like it. I've ridden HD's and BMW twins and didn't like them either. It felt very odd to me that the bike's power fell off as you climb the tach. It just didn't seem "normal" to me. I like the feeling of the power continuing to build until you hit redline.

And cruising at 8,000 rpm is normal, for me. (well, closer to 7k I suppose).

Interesting thread. I've learned a few things from it.
You just picked the wrong twins to ride. Go to a Ducati dealer and test ride a big Streetfighter or Superbike.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:50 AM   #156
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You just picked the wrong twins to ride. Go to a Ducati dealer and test ride a big Streetfighter or Superbike.

Yep - all twins are not the same!
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Griffin44 View Post
Interesting observations. I agree with you.

I hear a lot of folks decrying high horse power inline fours (or triples) as having lots of horsepower but that it's "not usable on the street". I suppose it depends on how you ride. I very much like the fact that my bike delivers peak power high in the rpm range. When I want to go faster, I want to twist the throttle, not short shift the gears to keep it in the power band.

I haven't ridden a lot of twins. I had a parallel twin but didn't like it. I've ridden HD's and BMW twins and didn't like them either. It felt very odd to me that the bike's power fell off as you climb the tach. It just didn't seem "normal" to me. I like the feeling of the power continuing to build until you hit redline.

And cruising at 8,000 rpm is normal, for me. (well, closer to 7k I suppose).

Interesting thread. I've learned a few things from it.
As someone said, different horses for different courses.

Those power traits kept harley in the winners circle for a lot of years in the TT style flat track races. Tire breaks loose and revs increase, revs increase power falls off allowing the tire to hook up again. The japanese came in with traditional high power engines. Tires breaks loose, revs increase, as the revs increase the power increases as the power increase your wheel spin increases.

Different uses for different riders, different expectations. I enjoy a day of riding corners but have no desire to drag the pegs, more enjoyable for me is travel. I want the sun to come up over my shoulder while I am on the road, and I enjoy being 500 miles from where I started when it's setting. Depending on the bike, 11 or 12 hours at 8,000 rpm can get tiresome.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:25 AM   #158
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If riders think having hp=power they are mistaken. You can argue that having hp at 10,000 rpm is a good thing because you can always gear down to get over that pass, but the counter argument is a bike with low rpm torque could be as fast if it had more gears. Think Harley.
Not really. replace both transmissions with CVT's and the one with more Power will always be faster... assuming both vehicles are the same. Just imagine putting a GSXR1000 engine (what, 147hp ish) into a full dress touring harley vs the same harley with the 103 (which is 1680cc's btw). Uphill downhill, the GSXR'd harley would win in a race every time.

Except it would suck to ride as intended because it would be revving high a lot. Unless you like that.


edit: and to answer the original title question: SV1000CF and yes its more than enough. I enjoy the flat torque curve and linear power delivery. From 3500-11,000 RPM she pulls well. And a 90* V is naturally balanced. And it sounds good too. And it's skinnier.

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Old 05-04-2012, 11:56 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
Not really. replace both transmissions with CVT's and the one with more Power will always be faster... assuming both vehicles are the same. Just imagine putting a GSXR1000 engine (what, 147hp ish) into a full dress touring harley vs the same harley with the 103 (which is 1680cc's btw). Uphill downhill, the GSXR'd harley would win in a race every time.

Except it would suck to ride as intended because it would be revving high a lot. Unless you like that.


edit: and to answer the original title question: SV1000CF and yes its more than enough. I enjoy the flat torque curve and linear power delivery. From 3500-11,000 RPM she pulls well. And a 90* V is naturally balanced. And it sounds good too. And it's skinnier.

Exactly. A 4 cylinder screaming high rpm engine is objectively better. Subjectively, it is not for a lot of uses.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:41 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
What I am saying is, in the real world horsepower and rpm dont tell the whole story, other things like torque and weight matter.
Horsepower and weight is everything you need to know. A 100hp engine will move the bike as a 100hp engine does, absolutely no matter if the 100hp come with 40 ft lbs or with 100. It's only a matter of the style you like. Of course, a 1200lb bike wouldn't be moved well by the hornet engine, not because the lack of torque but because the lack of power. For a 1200lb bike I'd like to have 300...400hp to call it beeing "moved good", torque wouldn't matter to me. (OK, maybe at 50,000 rpm it would be a bit loud, so there is of course a little relation between torque and power.) And most important: Trying to get these needed 300...400hp at only 5,000 rpm would be VERY inefficient.
And I agree to Griffin44 that it feels VERY odd when a bike looses torque in the high rpms. A bike should accelerate harder when revved up, not weaker.

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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
Given a choice of 100 hp and 47 ft lbs of torque at 14,000 rpm or 100 hp and 100 ft lbs of torque at 5,000 rpm, for my uses I'll take the 100 ft lbs of torque.
Me to, but only to use the 200hp it has at 10,000 rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Most "sport tourers" are really tourers that aren't harley...period.
Ah no, that's only because you Americans have that very, very, very strange point of view that every thing with a full fairing should be called a "sport tourer". Hell, some guys try to compare a very toury Pan European with the sporty VFR 1200... no clue, no clue.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #161
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it's all about usable power

my fzr was awesome and fast but it sucked riding it around town

i switched to a zx-10 and having torque and power anywhere in the powerband is SOOOO nice.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:34 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Horsepower and weight is everything you need to know. A 100hp engine will move the bike as a 100hp engine does, absolutely no matter if the 100hp come with 40 ft lbs or with 100. It's only a matter of the style you like. Of course, a 1200lb bike wouldn't be moved well by the hornet engine, not because the lack of torque but because the lack of power.
.

Explain why, I believe the horsepower on the hornet is a little higher than the goldwing.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:25 PM   #163
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Explain why, I believe the horsepower on the hornet is a little higher than the goldwing.
Because.. it is?

Let's put it this way; You remove the engine from a GW and a hornet and hook them up to unobtainiam perfect CVT's which are then connected to a capstand that has a weightless 10 mile long rope. The far end of this rope is connected to the front of your now engineless goldwing. You can't see or hear the engine, you can anly feel the acceleration of the rope pulling on your bike.

When the hornet engine is pulling the rope, your gutless goldwing will accelrate faster. Period.

Now the reasoning (aside from aesthetics) for using a larger engine with more torque in the lower RPM is for drivability and longevity. An motorcycle sized engine turning at 12k RPM most of it's life will have a shorter one compared to one taht lopes about at say, 4k. Or 3k. And as well starts from dead stops are easier with lots of torque down low on a heavy vehicle. Just don't kid yourself into thinking a very torquey large displacement engine will be faster than a small revvy engine with more power. It will just be more pleasurable to drive... for most.

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Old 05-04-2012, 02:28 PM   #164
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Because.. it is?

So if it's a ittle more than 100 horse and the flat six is 100 horse why wont it pull the wing better than the flat six?
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:39 PM   #165
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