ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-2012, 11:04 PM   #76
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv-rick View Post
Actually the polar bears are not endangered. There are many more than there were in the 1960s.
Even the pictures they show on TV have been so closely cropped, you can't really tell anything from them.
One example showed a polar bear on an ice floe that looked like he was in the middle of the ocean and all alone. When the full picture was shown, he was maybe a few hundred feet off land, and there was a whole family of them romping around.

The old saying: Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear has become outdated.
The problem here is, we're trying to discuss facts; and these people are just showing fealty...group unity with the Leaders Of The Cause. Notice the mockery? Anyone who's not in lockstep with US has his head...in the sand.

Gee, what's the proof? It's HOT...In AUSTRALIA! In the SUMMER!

What a surprise, that! Never happened before, hey? The Outback was a veritable lush Garden of Eden before all this Global Warming.

Unfortunately for the parrots, I know better. BEEN to Aussieland.

And, too, notice how he got his shot in about "deniers"? And of course,. Sarah Palin. Who would ever have thought Emmanuel Goldstein would be reborn...as a small-town Alaska woman, who made the mistake of running for public office without kissing the ring of Party Bosses and the P.C. bibles?

This crap makes me bilious. And the eagerness they jump in with it, more so. You wanna believe in Global Warming...or Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy...that's fine. Just don't demand public policy be shaped around it; and don't smear sane people who identify you as what you are.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 06:45 AM   #77
topless
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Oddometer: 125
I apologize for my tirades. I have spent my life workings around industry and watched too many people that I've known get laid off as plants close.
I have a very independent streak and a suspicious nature, I also have a lot of industrial experience and a son who has a degree in Enviromental Biology. From both sides of any Enviromental issue, there is a certain amount of bs. However, the flat out lies and media propaganda has come from the greenies over the last few years. A business doesn't stand much of a chance in creating an Enviromental problem when all it takes is a phone call from someone to bring in the media and EPA. But, no such method exists for the false information spread by greenies.
topless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 12:45 PM   #78
snakebit
growing old disgracefully
 
snakebit's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny Sarasota FL
Oddometer: 1,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post


I also know enough about solar cells to know they ain't gonna work, without breakthroughs that haven't happened and probably will never. Mostly because of storage needs, as well as the difficulty of making one work in winter months when there's little direct sun and it's weak and low in the horizon
.
.
The combination of ignorance and arrogance in this post is unbelievable.

In 2010 the U. S. exported 1 billion dollars worth of panels, China 10 billion dollars worth.

The Chinese government has invested over 40 billion dollars into solar panel firms.

I could go on and on but it would be pointless. Some people can't be educated.

Please explain to us how you are smarter and know more about solar panels then the tens of thousands of engineers and investors who are proving that panels are a completely feasible solution to energy needs in much of the world.
snakebit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 07:37 PM   #79
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakebit View Post
The combination of ignorance and arrogance in this post is unbelievable.

In 2010 the U. S. exported 1 billion dollars worth of panels, China 10 billion dollars worth.
So...someone is buying them. With OPM...other people's money. Government purchases, IOW.

You say EXPORTED. You live on Hawaii, maybe, MAYBE, they can be practical.

Not in a place where you average less than 90 sunny days a year; where the average temperature dips below freezing half the year.

Quote:
The Chinese government has invested over 40 billion dollars into solar panel firms.
The Chinese will make whatever fools with money want to buy.

Quote:
Please explain to us how you are smarter and know more about solar panels then the tens of thousands of engineers and investors who are proving that panels are a completely feasible solution to energy needs in much of the world.
Sure!!

I'm not taking GOVERNMENT MONEY to work on solar panels!

I know how that game is played - my old man was a chemical engineer, at one point with what's now Exxon. He got out; his new business failed; and got back in the field. Hired by the Carter government's Synthetic Fuels Corporation.

A big fat paycheck to work on SYNTHETIC FUELS!

Now...how much synthetic fuel did the Synthetic Fuel Corporation produce? If you said "ZERO" go to the head of the class. My old man knew the futility of it; but he wasn't getting paid for his opinions. He was getting paid for his expertise and his ability to show, at least on paper, progress on the Plan.

That's how this government-handout-research stuff generally goes.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 08:03 PM   #80
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,753
I question your knowledge of photovoltaics and again request the source of your information.

1. Who said photovoltaic power is practical in a place with 90 days of sun per year? I say they may be practical in those places if you only need the power that PVs can produce during that time. That probably would not include your average family home in those areas, but still useful for remote monitoring installations, radio repeaters with fuel cell or generator backup, off grid summer cabins, etc..

2. You say "temps dip below freezing half the year". What does that have to do with solar panels? The colder it is, the more power a PV module produces.

Please tell me what your source is so I can correct their misinformation.




Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
So...someone is buying them. With OPM...other people's money. Government purchases, IOW.

You say EXPORTED. You live on Hawaii, maybe, MAYBE, they can be practical.

Not in a place where you average less than 90 sunny days a year; where the average temperature dips below freezing half the year.

The Chinese will make whatever fools with money want to buy.

Sure!!

I'm not taking GOVERNMENT MONEY to work on solar panels!

I know how that game is played - my old man was a chemical engineer, at one point with what's now Exxon. He got out; his new business failed; and got back in the field. Hired by the Carter government's Synthetic Fuels Corporation.

A big fat paycheck to work on SYNTHETIC FUELS!

Now...how much synthetic fuel did the Synthetic Fuel Corporation produce? If you said "ZERO" go to the head of the class. My old man knew the futility of it; but he wasn't getting paid for his opinions. He was getting paid for his expertise and his ability to show, at least on paper, progress on the Plan.

That's how this government-handout-research stuff generally goes.
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 08:25 PM   #81
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
I question your knowledge of photovoltaics and again request the source of your information.

1. Who said photovoltaic power is practical in a place with 90 days of sun per year? I say they may be practical in those places if you only need the power that PVs can produce during that time. That probably would not include your average family home in those areas, but still useful for remote monitoring installations, radio repeaters with fuel cell or generator backup, off grid summer cabins, etc..
Still far more expensive than a simple electrical hookup. Unless, of course, we tax the schitt out of coal and stop expansion of the grid's capacity.

But if we try to work around the caprices of government ministers...that's a fool's errand; because by definition it IS their whims. They may as well whim something as destructive, such as a prohibitive tax on copper wire.

Quote:
2. You say "temps dip below freezing half the year". What does that have to do with solar panels? The colder it is, the more power a PV module produces.

Please tell me what your source is so I can correct their misinformation.
You misconstru. Cold weather occurs in the North...when the sun is low in the sky; and sunlight is weak as it slants down through more of the atmosphere.

That will cut down on performance.

Now that we've ruled out almost all the northern regions; full-time residences; most offices; ANYPLACE where clean (consistent in voltage) and reliable power is needed...what's left?

Radio repeaters. If, of course, it's not a major problem when they don't work.

Billboard lighting.

Decorative lighting.

...and that's about IT. Good luck selling those things as replacement for all that yukky coal and nuclear-generated electricity.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 08:58 PM   #82
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,753
CasseyJones, why do you hide your information sources? Are you making this stuff up as you go along? I'd really like to try to correct the misinformation on whatever site it is that has published this erroneous information.
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 09:04 PM   #83
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,753
Millions of people in developing countries have light at night from micro solar PV power systems.

From a secret source...... just kidding,,,,, Wikipedia.

Technology advances are opening up a huge new market for solar power: the approximately 1.3 billion people around the world who don't have access to grid electricity. Even though they are typically very poor, these people have to pay far more for lighting than people in rich countries because they use inefficient kerosene lamps. Solar power costs half as much as lighting with kerosene.[4] An estimated 3 million households get power from small solar PV systems.[5] Kenya is the world leader in the number of solar power systems installed per capita. More than 30,000 very small solar panels, each producing 12 to 30 watts, are sold in Kenya annually.[6]
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 09:18 PM   #84
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
Millions of people in developing countries have light at night from micro solar PV power systems.

From a secret source...... just kidding,,,,, Wikipedia.
Anybody can write anything on Wikipedia. If the agenda-driven editors there like it, it stays.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 09:21 PM   #85
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
CasseyJones, why do you hide your information sources? Are you making this stuff up as you go along? I'd really like to try to correct the misinformation on whatever site it is that has published this erroneous information.
What, I gotta PROVE somehow, with a LINK, that the sun is lower in the sky in the WINTER...cutting through more atmosphere for its angle? That THAT is why the season is colder?

I'd give you a source, but I don't remember the title of my Sixth Grade Science textbook. It was published by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, if that helps you. I remember that much.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 03:33 PM   #86
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,753
Sixth grade textbook? Are you in 7th grade now? How many years has it been since you left 6th grade?

In case you're interested in updating your knowledge of solar energy, that Wikipedia article has some excellent up to date references. This one from Technology Review, an MIT publication is from January of this year.

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/39544/?p1=MstCom

In fact all these references from the Wikipedia article could shed some light on the state of solar energy today.

  1. ^ a b c d e Energy for Development: The Potential Role of Renewable Energy in Meeting the Millennium Development Goals pp. 7-9.
  2. ^ a b Power for the People p. 3.
  3. ^ REN21 (2010). Renewables 2010 Global Status Report p. 9.
  4. ^ Kevin Bullis (January 27, 2012). "In the Developing World, Solar Is Cheaper than Fossil Fuels". Technology Review.
  5. ^ a b REN21 (2010). Renewables 2010 Global Status Report p. 12.
  6. ^ "The Rise of Renewable Energy" (PDF). Retrieved 2011-11-21.
  7. ^ Ashden Awards. "Grameen Shakti installs efficient stoves as well as solar home systems". Retrieved 2008-11-25.
  8. ^ "IAEA BULLETIN, 44/2/2002".
  9. ^ Ashden Awards. "PV-powered vaccine fridges". Retrieved 2008-11-25.
  10. ^ Adaptation Fund
  11. ^ "World Economic and Social Survey 2009 Promoting Development, Saving, 2009, the Planet".
  12. ^ OECD/International Energy Agency : Energy Poverty-How to make modern energy access universal 2010 Update p. 37
  13. ^ REN21 (2009). Renewables Global Status Report: 2009 Update p. 22.
  14. ^ [1] Adoption of the Algerian program of renewable energy and energy conservation policy
  15. ^ [2] Algerian Development Programme for new and renewable energy and energy efficiency
  16. ^ [3] Algerian Development Programme for new and renewable energy and energy efficiency (List of projects)
  17. ^ The Ministry of Energy http://www.energy.go.ke/?page_id=2
  18. ^ http://www.energy.go.ke/wp-content/u...0tarriffs2.pdf
  19. ^ The Rise of Renewable Energy
  20. ^ Latin America Venture Capital Association (13 july 2010). "Latin American Policy Changes: Investing in Renewable Energy, Climate Change and Clean Technology".
  21. ^ Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) (june 2007). "Costa Rica: Setting the Pace for Reducing Global Warming Pollution and Phasing Out oil".


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
What, I gotta PROVE somehow, with a LINK, that the sun is lower in the sky in the WINTER...cutting through more atmosphere for its angle? That THAT is why the season is colder?

I'd give you a source, but I don't remember the title of my Sixth Grade Science textbook. It was published by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, if that helps you. I remember that much.
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 03:52 PM   #87
Ken OBSC
-6.12, -7.64
 
Ken OBSC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Ada, Ohio
Oddometer: 37,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
Sixth grade textbook? Are you in 7th grade now? How many years has it been since you left 6th grade?

In case you're interested in updating your knowledge of solar energy, that Wikipedia article has some excellent up to date references. This one from Technology Review, an MIT publication is from January of this year.

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/39544/?p1=MstCom

In fact all these references from the Wikipedia article could shed some light on the state of solar energy today.

  1. ^ a b c d e Energy for Development: The Potential Role of Renewable Energy in Meeting the Millennium Development Goals pp. 7-9.
  2. ^ a b Power for the People p. 3.
  3. ^ REN21 (2010). Renewables 2010 Global Status Report p. 9.
  4. ^ Kevin Bullis (January 27, 2012). "In the Developing World, Solar Is Cheaper than Fossil Fuels". Technology Review.
  5. ^ a b REN21 (2010). Renewables 2010 Global Status Report p. 12.
  6. ^ "The Rise of Renewable Energy" (PDF). Retrieved 2011-11-21.
  7. ^ Ashden Awards. "Grameen Shakti installs efficient stoves as well as solar home systems". Retrieved 2008-11-25.
  8. ^ "IAEA BULLETIN, 44/2/2002".
  9. ^ Ashden Awards. "PV-powered vaccine fridges". Retrieved 2008-11-25.
  10. ^ Adaptation Fund
  11. ^ "World Economic and Social Survey 2009 Promoting Development, Saving, 2009, the Planet".
  12. ^ OECD/International Energy Agency : Energy Poverty-How to make modern energy access universal 2010 Update p. 37
  13. ^ REN21 (2009). Renewables Global Status Report: 2009 Update p. 22.
  14. ^ [1] Adoption of the Algerian program of renewable energy and energy conservation policy
  15. ^ [2] Algerian Development Programme for new and renewable energy and energy efficiency
  16. ^ [3] Algerian Development Programme for new and renewable energy and energy efficiency (List of projects)
  17. ^ The Ministry of Energy http://www.energy.go.ke/?page_id=2
  18. ^ http://www.energy.go.ke/wp-content/u...0tarriffs2.pdf
  19. ^ The Rise of Renewable Energy
  20. ^ Latin America Venture Capital Association (13 july 2010). "Latin American Policy Changes: Investing in Renewable Energy, Climate Change and Clean Technology".
  21. ^ Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) (june 2007). "Costa Rica: Setting the Pace for Reducing Global Warming Pollution and Phasing Out oil".
I don't think you'll make much headway here. There are several cognitive errors that are aligned in what's being posted.

1. A deep suspicion and contempt for education.
2. A willingness to believe any position that is critical of the government, science, scientists, or technical studies.
3. A lack of knowledge of science and a willingness to dismiss anything that doesn't fit preconceived notions as just "junk science", without any knowledge of what might constitute "junk science".
4. An unwillingness to explore sources beyond the blogs of anonymous ideologues.
5. A lack of the tools necessary to understand the science behind the data, the implications of the data, the criteria the data must surpass to be considered, willingness to tentatively accept hypotheses while maintaining an attitude of skepticism.

But I admire your grit and perseverance in trying to shed light.

__________________
Ken

Old Bastards Scooter Club (Yahoo)
----------
With Age comes Wisdom


More Intellectual Fire Power than the entire wing-nuttery.

Ken OBSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 04:39 PM   #88
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,753
I think you're right Ken but find it difficult to accept that people like CasseyJones are so stuck in their preconceived ideas that they'll never accept the facts. Willful ignorance affects us all when these people vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken OBSC View Post
I don't think you'll make much headway here. There are several cognitive errors that are aligned in what's being posted.

1. A deep suspicion and contempt for education.
2. A willingness to believe any position that is critical of the government, science, scientists, or technical studies.
3. A lack of knowledge of science and a willingness to dismiss anything that doesn't fit preconceived notions as just "junk science", without any knowledge of what might constitute "junk science".
4. An unwillingness to explore sources beyond the blogs of anonymous ideologues.
5. A lack of the tools necessary to understand the science behind the data, the implications of the data, the criteria the data must surpass to be considered, willingness to tentatively accept hypotheses while maintaining an attitude of skepticism.

But I admire your grit and perseverance in trying to shed light.

hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 05:42 PM   #89
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 766
How about, an overriding contempt for others; coupled to a blind fealty to a prepackaged ideology which promises moral absolution by simple agreement and abdication to self-styled "experts"?

You mock what you think is my education. What know you of history; the history of totalitarian movements and how they start? You think these people are REALLY worried about the environment, and are going to be satisfied with high-cost gasoline and mandated little cars?

Hear what's going on in Tombstone, Arizona? The government, oh-so concerned about the environment...is cutting off the city's WATER! The water conduits were damaged in a mudslide and Department of the Interior is forbidding repair. Tombstone now has ten percent of the water it needs.

THAT is where this leads...where we're all jammed into high-rise beehive concrete hovels, and made to walk - or ride bicycles. You think these dictator wannabees in government are going to bless you because you use a Vespa instead of a Ford? Hell, no...they don't want you, or any of the Little People, to have free movement.

But you won't listen. Until of course it's too late...
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 06:39 PM   #90
hugemoth
Beastly Adventurer
 
hugemoth's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: In the TARDIS
Oddometer: 2,753
What does the water system in Tombstone have to do with solar power? After doing a bit of research on the Toom Town water problem I suspect you get your information from World Net Daily, a far right wing version of the National Enquirer. No wonder you are reluctant to name your source.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
How about, an overriding contempt for others; coupled to a blind fealty to a prepackaged ideology which promises moral absolution by simple agreement and abdication to self-styled "experts"?

You mock what you think is my education. What know you of history; the history of totalitarian movements and how they start? You think these people are REALLY worried about the environment, and are going to be satisfied with high-cost gasoline and mandated little cars?

Hear what's going on in Tombstone, Arizona? The government, oh-so concerned about the environment...is cutting off the city's WATER! The water conduits were damaged in a mudslide and Department of the Interior is forbidding repair. Tombstone now has ten percent of the water it needs.

THAT is where this leads...where we're all jammed into high-rise beehive concrete hovels, and made to walk - or ride bicycles. You think these dictator wannabees in government are going to bless you because you use a Vespa instead of a Ford? Hell, no...they don't want you, or any of the Little People, to have free movement.

But you won't listen. Until of course it's too late...
hugemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014