ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2012, 02:25 AM   #361
explain
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Europe
Oddometer: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Shadow View Post
Im a fan of the right bike is what you already have
I'll second that. Perosonally for me gymkhana is not the goal in itself but rather meant to hone control skills with my current bike (Transalp), to discover those limits (lean angle, traction, turn radius) in relatively "safe" environment. During some research i came upon a citation of Naito Sensei (SRTT) that states
that "you can learn 4 times as much from practice in the rain" (link). By that quote i meant: will you really benefit as a rider from relaxing the initial conditions (perfect weather, more nimble bike e.g. pit-bike). I'd personally be more impressed by pilot's skills swinging around a 1200GS or other begemoth of a bike then a lightweight motard. But if you are into competitive G-hana - thats the other story.
explain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 04:29 AM   #362
Motogymkhanaman
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Stratford on Avon, England
Oddometer: 211
Our Japanese friends say that the tyres don't know it's raining. If you would like to see a great example of why that is so very true, check out our friend Fumikatsu Nakamura making mincemeat of a course in the tail-end of a Typhoon.

http://youtu.be/wowIzosna6I
__________________
Dedicated to the wonderful sport of Moto Gymkhana
Motogymkhanaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 04:29 AM   #363
Storm Shadow
Thread Ninja
 
Storm Shadow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Arashikage Clan
Oddometer: 1,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by explain View Post
I'll second that. Perosonally for me gymkhana is not the goal in itself but rather meant to hone control skills with my current bike (Transalp), to discover those limits (lean angle, traction, turn radius) in relatively "safe" environment. During some research i came upon a citation of Naito Sensei (SRTT) that states
that "you can learn 4 times as much from practice in the rain" (link). By that quote i meant: will you really benefit as a rider from relaxing the initial conditions (perfect weather, more nimble bike e.g. pit-bike). I'd personally be more impressed by pilot's skills swinging around a 1200GS or other begemoth of a bike then a lightweight motard. But if you are into competitive G-hana - thats the other story.
unless your in a race or competition, whats the point of trying to be the fastest, i see this is practice to make me safer on the road, hone my skills, keep skills up.
Storm Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 07:11 AM   #364
Motogymkhanaman
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Stratford on Avon, England
Oddometer: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Shadow View Post
unless your in a race or competition, whats the point of trying to be the fastest, i see this is practice to make me safer on the road, hone my skills, keep skills up.
The reason for competition is that it provides the stressor that would not normally be in place if you were just practicing. If anything goes wrong out on the road then you can bet that the stress levels will go through the roof and that any control inputs have to be made under extreme duress. Riding against the clock is about as close as you can get to the very high stress levels that you might encounter on the run up to a dreadful accident and being able to completely control the bike, even under these circumstances, can only be beneficial to your health!
__________________
Dedicated to the wonderful sport of Moto Gymkhana
Motogymkhanaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 08:09 AM   #365
TheWall
0 miles and counting
 
TheWall's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Somewhere in the cold, frozen north
Oddometer: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Shadow View Post
Im a fan of the right bike is what you already have
I can certainly appreciate that point of view. First, just get out there and get started! You can waste an entire lifetime waiting to get all of your ducks in a row so you can "do it right." Second, the bike you normally ride is the bike you need to be most comfortable on. Third, as has already been noted, it's a lot more impressive to see someone pushing a big, heavy bike to the limits than someone flinging around a little, lightweight, nimble bike.

However, I would still like to get a gymkhana-specific bike. The riding season is short here in Alaska, so I'm really hesitant to push my Wee-Strom as hard as I'd like because I don't want to waste a single riding day. Also, it's my baby :) I *have* dropped it, but I do try to be careful on it. I know I could push it farther than I do, but I'd be heartbroken if I beat it up. OTOH, if I bought a beater-bike (like the $1000 reconstruct Ninja 500 I saw on Craigslist the other day), I wouldn't have any qualms about dropping it while practicing, and without that fear of dropping the bike, I think I could relax more and progress faster.

TheWall screwed with this post 09-10-2012 at 03:14 PM Reason: fixed a couple of typos...&*#!! keyboard on my smartphone... :)
TheWall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #366
Storm Shadow
Thread Ninja
 
Storm Shadow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Arashikage Clan
Oddometer: 1,489
I can see the valid point in droppibg it. It never occured to me about the purposfully adding stress to test your limits certernly puts the pressure to perform in. But is this pre scripted or give you yhe ability to change your course say a surprize like when a bus drives through the track.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Storm Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:14 PM   #367
Harvey Krumpet
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: The Shaky Isles
Oddometer: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
I can certainly appreciate that point of view. First, just get out there and get started! You can waste an entire lifetime waiting to get all of your ducks in a row so you can "do it right." Second, the bike you normally ride is the bike you need to be most comfortable on. Third, as has already been noted, it's a lot more impressive to see someone pushing a big, heavy bike to the limits than someone flinging around a little, lightweight, nimble bike.

However, I would still like to get a gymkhana-specific bike. The riding season is short here in Alaska, so I'm really hesitant to push my Wee-Strom as hard as I'd like because I don't want to waste a single riding day. Also, it's my baby :) I *have* dropped it, but I do try to be careful on it. I know I could push it farther than I do, but I'd be heartbroken if I beat it up. OTOH, if I bought a beater-bike (like the $1000 reconstruct Ninja 500 I saw kn Crsigslist the other day), I wouldn't have any qualms about dropping it while practicing, and without that fear of dropping the bike, I think I could relax more and progress faster.
My sentiments exacary. I really do not want to drop my TDM, spares are like hens teeth & it is in great condition. Same for the G/F's bike, I can push it a bit harder but still reach a line I'm not prepared to cross.
I see a dedicated old clunker with a roll cage & training wheels taking me further than my daily rides if i intend to compete and this is probably the only sport I could compete in with my advancing years & waning bravery.
When it comes to developing skills on road bikes, yeah, it's immense. I was like a cat that got the cream yesterday, got lost in a wee town & elegantly & confidently did a couple of u- turns & finally a 360 to find a park.
I could not have done that 6 months ago. I walked down the road ten foot high but i don't think anybody else noticed.....
Harvey Krumpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #368
TheWall
0 miles and counting
 
TheWall's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Somewhere in the cold, frozen north
Oddometer: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Krumpet View Post
I walked down the road ten foot high but i don't think anybody else noticed.....
TheWall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:26 PM   #369
ohgood
Beastly Adventurer
 
ohgood's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: alabama
Oddometer: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
FUCK YEAH !!!



Beat up, old DRZ400S converted to supermoto is in da house !!!!

Registering it tomorrow, and taking her out for a first session in months.

WOOOOHOOOOO !!!!
put the dirt gearing on it... with those tiny wheels you will love the tighter stuff!! ( 14/47 )
__________________
Donkeys are flying
ohgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #370
Harvey Krumpet
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: The Shaky Isles
Oddometer: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
put the dirt gearing on it... with those tiny wheels you will love the tighter stuff!! ( 14/47 )
Yup, low gearing makes them wheelie good.
Harvey Krumpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 04:52 PM   #371
dbuzz
Citizen of the world
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: On my bike
Oddometer: 1,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Krumpet View Post
My sentiments exacary. I really do not want to drop my TDM, spares are like hens teeth & it is in great condition. Same for the G/F's bike, I can push it a bit harder but still reach a line I'm not prepared to cross.
I see a dedicated old clunker with a roll cage & training wheels taking me further than my daily rides if i intend to compete and this is probably the only sport I could compete in with my advancing years & waning bravery.
When it comes to developing skills on road bikes, yeah, it's immense. I was like a cat that got the cream yesterday, got lost in a wee town & elegantly & confidently did a couple of u- turns & finally a 360 to find a park.
I could not have done that 6 months ago. I walked down the road ten foot high but i don't think anybody else noticed.....
Can relate to this ^^^
I have occassional access to some training Yamaha Scorpios or Honda CBs ... they have crash bars on them for the learners so I feel emboldened to push them a tad farther ... the result is more confidence when I'm on my own bikes. I'd hate to drop either of my road bikes.
dbuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 06:25 PM   #372
Vulfy OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Vulfy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
I can certainly appreciate that point of view. First, just get out there and get started! You can waste an entire lifetime waiting to get all of your ducks in a row so you can "do it right." Second, the bike you normally ride is the bike you need to be most comfortable on. Third, as has already been noted, it's a lot more impressive to see someone pushing a big, heavy bike to the limits than someone flinging around a little, lightweight, nimble bike.

However, I would still like to get a gymkhana-specific bike. The riding season is short here in Alaska, so I'm really hesitant to push my Wee-Strom as hard as I'd like because I don't want to waste a single riding day. Also, it's my baby :) I *have* dropped it, but I do try to be careful on it. I know I could push it farther than I do, but I'd be heartbroken if I beat it up. OTOH, if I bought a beater-bike (like the $1000 reconstruct Ninja 500 I saw on Craigslist the other day), I wouldn't have any qualms about dropping it while practicing, and without that fear of dropping the bike, I think I could relax more and progress faster.
Exactly.

I started out on my Triumph. An almost liter bike with over 400 pounds in her. Not the perfect bike, but not the worst either. There are very capable riders out there on the same bike.

Example:



So yes... start out on anything you have.

However for me Gymkhna IS a sport, not a continuation of MSF classes. There are a few good times set on the courses and especially in GP8. For me its fun to chase those seconds and milliseconds.

After practicing quite a bit over the summer, Triumph started to show off its weaker points when pushing it, specifically in Gymkhana.

Triumph is a nice bike, and even though I dropped it multiple times, as speeds and lean angles increased, so did the damage. It was handling lower speed drops fine, but at one point it started chewing itself up, while sliding on its side.
Damage was minor, but made me realize that if I continue my progression, I will simply trash this bike... And not just trash as in bent tank and scraped plastic, but mechanical damage that would need to be fixed in order to continue practicing. Parts for Triples are harder to find (especially older models) and quite expensive.

For me personally, it made sense to get a beater bike for practice. Not only that, but ergonomically Triple is not very good for gymkhana. Handlebars dig into the tank and the turn radius is quite large. I had to put risers on it, just so I didn't bang up my hands against the tank on each turn.

Its heavy. Its fine in the turn when at its own power, but drop it, and its a workout for me to pick it back up. Drop it three times during a practice, and my back is killing me.

Fuel injection has a bit of an on/off feel at low rpms.

Its a very powerful bike. 955cc pulls you, despite full pressure on rear brake. I've ridden maybe half an hour on my DRZ and I already can feel a HUGE difference in rear braking on a small cc bike. I'm pretty sure my problems with boiling fluid every 5 minutes will be gone on 400cc's.

So yea.... If you want to just practice drills and become a better, safer as well as faster rider, stick with what you have.
For others, who want to chase a faster time, a more dedicated machine is a big plus.


As for the bike. Its at the mechanic right now. Went there to get inspection done, and the low beam is not working. He is looking into it, as well as ordering front brake pads. Did ride it for a little bit today, prior to bringing it to the shop.

Its a very different bike from Triumph. I feel I'll need to spend a few good session just acclimating myself to her, before I even start thinking of pushing her. Plus I'm really out of shape in Gymkhana, as I've missed so much time in the past month or so.


P.S. Also keep in mind that Gymkhana IS a sport. Us noobs here, running 8's and being all googly eye about what we can do with a bike once we actually start riding it, is just an intro course, a BASIC level of Gymkhana.
So there IS a difference between just running these exercises, and actually competing for a faster time.

GP and Street racers could just have a nice cruise around their courses, but then it wouldn't be a sport, would it?

Vulfy screwed with this post 09-10-2012 at 06:34 PM
Vulfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #373
Vulfy OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Vulfy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Shadow View Post
I can see the valid point in droppibg it. It never occured to me about the purposfully adding stress to test your limits certernly puts the pressure to perform in. But is this pre scripted or give you yhe ability to change your course say a surprize like when a bus drives through the track.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Gymkhana events are run on a course that is set up prior to the event, and is never repeated.
Riders walk it, but don't ride or practice it prior to their turn on it.

So yeah... running for a better time on a new course, will get that adrenaline pumping. Since the courses are all weaving, hard braking, and faster swoops, I say it is pretty close to getting you stressed out, as you would in an unpredictable spot on the road, be that a bus cutting in front of you, or a tight turn you weren't expecting.

And again... yes Gymkhana will make a better rider out of you, since you are getting more comfortable with your bike and its limits.
But Gymkhana is NOT a safety course or exercise. You will drop, you will crash. Its a sport. Its all up to you how far you want to push it.
Vulfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 06:51 PM   #374
Harvey Krumpet
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: The Shaky Isles
Oddometer: 858
Quote:
But Gymkhana is NOT a safety course or exercise. You will drop, you will crash. Its a sport. Its all up to you how far you want to push it.
Yup, I can't bring myself to ride either bike more aggressively. My technique may continue to improve but only up to my self imposed mental limit.
For the first time ever actually falling off a bike is appealing. Gymkhana is the only way I will ever get a knee down or spin the back tire out of a corner on tarmac, I'm going to have to pay my dues to learn this.
Harvey Krumpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 07:10 PM   #375
Vulfy OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Vulfy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Krumpet View Post
Yup, I can't bring myself to ride either bike more aggressively. My technique may continue to improve but only up to my self imposed mental limit.
For the first time ever actually falling off a bike is appealing. Gymkhana is the only way I will ever get a knee down or spin the back tire out of a corner on tarmac, I'm going to have to pay my dues to learn this.
That is one of the things I love about this sport. Dues are not that big. If you are being smart about your own protection as well as bike's, get off are relatively drama free.

Of course there is always a chance of snapping, braking or pulling something on yourself as well as the bike, but overall its a relatively safe sport on two wheels, while at the same time, ridding the piss out of your machine.

Pretty good deal if you ask me.
Vulfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014