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Old 11-03-2012, 12:12 AM   #736
TheWall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
that hondamatic deserves riding, and leaning.

:)
Can't argue with you there!
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:32 AM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Shadow View Post
Really theres no law to riding around a car park at car park speeds

send on a small touch screen by a guy with fat fingers
Yup, your right, but sadly we get judged because we are a little outside the norm, biker = scary!! I own a Pit Bull too, amazing dog, loved as a family member for nearly two hundred years but now they put the shits up people because of idiots giving them a bad name.
We should not be reticent to share our pleasure in trying to be "good" at something.

My girlfriend described me as being a biker, Pit Bull owner & beer guzzler to a friend in Germany. Her friends reaction was to offer assistance to get out of the abusive trap. FFS, I'm a bloke, a proper one! I cook tea every night & do the hoovering now & again. Oh, & I polish the burnouts out of the dunny too.

Roundwards & onwards genulmen!
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:29 AM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Krumpet View Post
Yup, your right, but sadly we get judged because we are a little outside the norm, biker = scary!! I own a Pit Bull too, amazing dog, loved as a family member for nearly two hundred years but now they put the shits up people because of idiots giving them a bad name.
We should not be reticent to share our pleasure in trying to be "good" at something.

My girlfriend described me as being a biker, Pit Bull owner & beer guzzler to a friend in Germany. Her friends reaction was to offer assistance to get out of the abusive trap. FFS, I'm a bloke, a proper one! I cook tea every night & do the hoovering now & again. Oh, & I polish the burnouts out of the dunny too.

Roundwards & onwards genulmen!
All around proper gentleman I see.


Gahahahahahahahahahaaa!
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:20 AM   #739
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I haven't been able to talk any of my riding friends into joining me
This perhaps the strangest, but also one of the biggest problems facing any new Moto Gymkhana group. If I had a Pound for every rider that told me they wouldn't have a go at Moto Gymkhana because "they would drop their bike and damage it", then I would be very rich indeed.

We think that the problem stems from the fact that full-on Moto Gymkhana so obviously explores bits of the bikes performance and control envelope that riders just have no experience of and so they are terribly frightened about what might happen if they get it 'wrong'.

This a great shame as riders should be able to use most of the control envelope as without that type of experience, when they need it, they haven't got it.

Our answer is to get people started with the tail chase element and not the full-on Moto Gymkhana or GP8 courses. Tail chasing is dead easy to get into especially if the course layout is not too severe and people can naturally get a feel for their bikes without an elevated risk of falling off.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:06 AM   #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
This perhaps the strangest, but also one of the biggest problems facing any new Moto Gymkhana group. If I had a Pound for every rider that told me they wouldn't have a go at Moto Gymkhana because "they would drop their bike and damage it", then I would be very rich indeed.

We think that the problem stems from the fact that full-on Moto Gymkhana so obviously explores bits of the bikes performance and control envelope that riders just have no experience of and so they are terribly frightened about what might happen if they get it 'wrong'.

This a great shame as riders should be able to use most of the control envelope as without that type of experience, when they need it, they haven't got it.

Our answer is to get people started with the tail chase element and not the full-on Moto Gymkhana or GP8 courses. Tail chasing is dead easy to get into especially if the course layout is not too severe and people can naturally get a feel for their bikes without an elevated risk of falling off.
Any new riders that show up at 1 of our events they have to do the "circle of trust" first. Its just a circle thats 28 feet in diameter. They can ride around the outside as many times as they want too. When they are comfortable with that, they ride in inside of the circle. The circle is laid out with a cone in the middle and tennis balls cut in half defining the outside limit of the circle. They must do 3-4 complete circles in a clockwise then a counter-clockwise circle. After that, they can ride the course.

Its hard to believe the number of folks who will not even try that. 28 feet is the width of a 2 lane road in the U.S.. The exercise simulates a U-turn in a road. Something every motorcyclist needs to do.



Thats so sad.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:40 PM   #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
This perhaps the strangest, but also one of the biggest problems facing any new Moto Gymkhana group. If I had a Pound for every rider that told me they wouldn't have a go at Moto Gymkhana because "they would drop their bike and damage it", then I would be very rich indeed.

We think that the problem stems from the fact that full-on Moto Gymkhana so obviously explores bits of the bikes performance and control envelope that riders just have no experience of and so they are terribly frightened about what might happen if they get it 'wrong'.
Good advice on overcoming riders' fear. Thanks for sharing that!

One other reason I've heard when inviting others to come join me is that it looks like the box in the MSF training. Most riders I know really struggled with the figure-eight-in-a-box during the MSF course -- myself included -- therefore, they associate that maneuver with a lot of fear and apprehension. Drop the bike during MSF testing, and the rider coaches will, ahem, invite you to return at a later date, meaning no ticket to ride that day. Consequently, they figure that they've already passed the class; no reason to revisit that fear and apprehension again. Doing it for fun seems downright masochistic

My take on it is, if I'm still afraid of some maneuver, then I obviously need to keep practicing. That's an area where my skills are sub-par, and therefore I need to bring them up to the standard, or better. But I'm kind of weird like that
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:14 PM   #742
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Recently I read that our inhibition on bikes when we are learning or even as we are, improving skills may stem from our in built gyroscopes. As kids & probably as cave men we learn that out limit of lean when walking, running or just reaching for something is about 20o. After that we fall over.
Watching a learner or less confident rider that is about as far as they will go until teaching & experience re-programmes them. I know this was the case with my G/F. We did exercises which forced her to think of something different & she rode through this barrier without realising it. When she tried to do it consciously she couldn't.

Oops, that's a bit random. As you were.

I'm in the same boat getting other riders I know to join in. Some just outright say it's a waste of time, others have bikes that are too heavy & a few say they will give it a go but find reasons not to turn up. The guy I did my training with had to ride up onto the pavement to do a u-turn on an 8 mtr road at the beginning of the day. He finally managed to do it within the kerbs but has not practiced since. At least he turned up that day, 5 others didn't.

Harvey Krumpet screwed with this post 11-03-2012 at 02:23 PM
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:17 PM   #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
Our answer is to get people started with the tail chase element and not the full-on Moto Gymkhana or GP8 courses. Tail chasing is dead easy to get into especially if the course layout is not too severe and people can naturally get a feel for their bikes without an elevated risk of falling off.
What is tail chasing?


This video from Ohgood deserves to be embedded

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Old 11-03-2012, 02:30 PM   #744
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I just about fell off the couch when I saw that MP3.

Doing those one handed 360's is hard too......
Very entertaining.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:58 PM   #745
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Originally Posted by nuggets View Post
What is tail chasing?
Leader guiding everybody through a course, and everybody is in one line chasing each other's tail.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:11 AM   #746
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It's the 'U' turn or variations thereof that is by far the biggest problem effecting riders today.


However it's not their fault that they're a problem, it's just that the teaching methods currently used are simply not sufficiently well designed to prevent riders being unhappy with doing 'U' turns.


A 'U' turn is a fundamental and critical skill that needs to be mastered very early on in a riders career and if not, then they will always be at a terrible disadvantage. It embodies all that a rider needs to be able to do on a bike as it requires them to manage every control similtaneously as well as using their vision to advantage.


At the moment the 'U' turn is something to be feared and once one has been achieved for a test or grant of a certificate it never needs to be visited ever again (watching all the duck-walking shows the truth of this).


Our own GP8 Challenge is essentially two 'U' turns linked by two straights and that is why we see so many riders struggle with it the first few times they attempt it.


The Japanese understand this fact and that is why they don't 'teach' it in the conventional sense, but instead allow riders to 'discover' it. They do this through the wonders of tail-chasing when all the students follow the master around a course made up of pylons. These courses are cunningly designed to contain tighter and tighter 'U' turns so that initially the master takes the students through the big wide one and as they get more and more experience, he takes them through tighter and tighter turns until eventually they are 'U' turning the bike without thinking. The only teaching that has been done is for the master to say to the students "follow me, do what I do and keep up".


Compare that with the western way of teaching where the Instructor demonstartes the 'U' turn and then asks the students to attempt it, usually with disaterous results. No wonder we have so much difficulty. Unless the rider in this video had not learn't 'U' turns in this simple and non-threatening way, he would never be able to do advanced 'U' turns like this.

http://youtu.be/VCzGo8y52Qs
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:09 AM   #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
It's the 'U' turn or variations thereof that is by far the biggest problem effecting riders today.


However it's not their fault that they're a problem, it's just that the teaching methods currently used are simply not sufficiently well designed to prevent riders being unhappy with doing 'U' turns.


A 'U' turn is a fundamental and critical skill that needs to be mastered very early on in a riders career and if not, then they will always be at a terrible disadvantage. It embodies all that a rider needs to be able to do on a bike as it requires them to manage every control similtaneously as well as using their vision to advantage.


At the moment the 'U' turn is something to be feared and once one has been achieved for a test or grant of a certificate it never needs to be visited ever again (watching all the duck-walking shows the truth of this).


Our own GP8 Challenge is essentially two 'U' turns linked by two straights and that is why we see so many riders struggle with it the first few times they attempt it.


The Japanese understand this fact and that is why they don't 'teach' it in the conventional sense, but instead allow riders to 'discover' it. They do this through the wonders of tail-chasing when all the students follow the master around a course made up of pylons. These courses are cunningly designed to contain tighter and tighter 'U' turns so that initially the master takes the students through the big wide one and as they get more and more experience, he takes them through tighter and tighter turns until eventually they are 'U' turning the bike without thinking. The only teaching that has been done is for the master to say to the students "follow me, do what I do and keep up".


Compare that with the western way of teaching where the Instructor demonstartes the 'U' turn and then asks the students to attempt it, usually with disaterous results. No wonder we have so much difficulty. Unless the rider in this video had not learn't 'U' turns in this simple and non-threatening way, he would never be able to do advanced 'U' turns like this.

http://youtu.be/VCzGo8y52Qs
this looks like a really good challenge. I'm going to forward to buzz, our local guru that makes up our courses and see if he likes it. thanks !

most importantly, it shows him countersteering from a standstill , which is pretty cool. don't think I've noticed that before. ill video myself to see if I'm doing it yet.

:)
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:08 PM   #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
The Japanese understand this fact and that is why they don't 'teach' it in the conventional sense, but instead allow riders to 'discover' it. They do this through the wonders of tail-chasing when all the students follow the master around a course made up of pylons. These courses are cunningly designed to contain tighter and tighter 'U' turns so that initially the master takes the students through the big wide one and as they get more and more experience, he takes them through tighter and tighter turns until eventually they are 'U' turning the bike without thinking. The only teaching that has been done is for the master to say to the students "follow me, do what I do and keep up".


Compare that with the western way of teaching where the Instructor demonstartes the 'U' turn and then asks the students to attempt it, usually with disaterous results. No wonder we have so much difficulty. Unless the rider in this video had not learn't 'U' turns in this simple and non-threatening way, he would never be able to do advanced 'U' turns like this.
http://youtu.be/VCzGo8y52Qs
Before getting started with motorcycles, I spent a few years as a flight instructor and...that's brilliant.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:39 PM   #749
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Before getting started with motorcycles, I spent a few years as a flight instructor and...that's brilliant.
That tail chasing is similar to what we did with my G/F, changing the course as she was riding so she did not get fixation on one problem, the lesson was never what she was actually thinking about but what she had done in an earlier exercise. Great way to teach!

Hope i have not offended with my flippancy Teh Wall!!
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:42 PM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Krumpet View Post
Yup, your right, but sadly we get judged because we are a little outside the norm, biker = scary!! I own a Pit Bull too, amazing dog, loved as a family member for nearly two hundred years but now they put the shits up people because of idiots giving them a bad name.
We should not be reticent to share our pleasure in trying to be "good" at something.

My girlfriend described me as being a biker, Pit Bull owner & beer guzzler to a friend in Germany. Her friends reaction was to offer assistance to get out of the abusive trap. FFS, I'm a bloke, a proper one! I cook tea every night & do the hoovering now & again. Oh, & I polish the burnouts out of the dunny too.

Roundwards & onwards genulmen!
well i have had the cops called a few times, doing burn outs apparently, i wish i could drift the bike around a car park like im doing u turns
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