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Old 05-13-2013, 11:47 AM   #1141
TheWall
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Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
I like this explanation!
Thanks!

Now I just have to learn to *do* it, as well as explain it

Off-topic: I took my wife's CB750A out for a ride the other night, and stopped in a school parking lot for a few minutes of figure-8/GP-8, and...I really want a '70s CB750 of my own, now! I don't know if it was the lower C.G. (as compared to my V-Strom), the BT-045 tires vs. my Shinko 705's, or what, but that bike made some beautiful, tight little 8's in the parking lot. The brakes were a little weak compared to my Strom, but otherwise, it was an absolutely brilliant bike for gymkhana! Can't wait to finish up my XS750 and see how it compares :)
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:10 PM   #1142
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I am always fighting the bars on my bike in very tight turns. Not sure why I'm afraid of letting it go to full lock and staying there
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:50 PM   #1143
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Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
I am always fighting the bars on my bike in very tight turns. Not sure why I'm afraid of letting it go to full lock and staying there
Danger with full lock is that you can't counter-steer to stand the bike up. Only way to get the bike up (at least, without putting your feet down) is to throttle up.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:41 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
Danger with full lock is that you can't counter-steer to stand the bike up. Only way to get the bike up (at least, without putting your feet down) is to throttle up.
I am finally starring to break my habit of putting a foot down. I've survived so far out of luck with no broken ankles. The other day I slowed too much for a u-turn. I started to take my foot off the peg but caught myself and put it back and let my turn finish(continuing to fall) before I added throttle. I am not precise enough to add throttle off idle without shooting off into the weeds so I have to be pointing the way I want to go first
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:47 PM   #1145
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Full-Lock aaargh!

Of course when the bike is at full-lock it is no longer possible to control it by counter steering so we have to use some other method.

We are so used to always being able to counter-steer that when we are no longer able to do so we get gripped by a deep, but understandable feeling of impending doom. We can overcome this by doing the 'kissing the stops' exercise which involves riding in a tight circle and similtaneously pressing on the rear brake and leaning out of the turn. If we're lucky the bars will come round and 'kiss' the lock stops for just a moment. The trick is to try and get the bars to do longer and longer kisses until we can do a complete 360 with the bars against the stops.

Top tip is to not close the throttle during the exercise as the bike will want to fall over completely with it closed.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:57 AM   #1146
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I hope this isn’t too much of a threadjack, but I just want to jump out of lurkdom to comment on this: definitely figure out why your bike does not run well at small throttle openings/low rpm and fix it. At least for a noob like me who is just starting out on this gymkhana stuff, having the right gearing and smooth fueling at low rpm makes a HUGE difference.

I have 2 bikes: a Ducati Monster and a little Honda CRF230L (small dualsport). I just started practicing the figure 8 this weekend.

The Monster has a tall first gear (even after I went one tooth smaller on the front sprocket), and it runs TERRIBLY down low. Very jerky, very difficult to have smooth inputs. It was very challenging (read, frustrating) for me to try and “put all the pieces together” with the snatchy throttle, clutch, and brake, while trying to be smooth and learn something new. It was very hard for me to figure out how to use the clutch and brake to apply power smoothly. I left Saturday feeling a bit defeated as to how I could improve.

On Sunday, I tried again with my CRF. That bike (while also smaller and lighter), has a really low first gear, and runs smoothly all the way down. Result? 15 SECONDS faster after just two tries (yes, the monster times were that embarrassing). After a few more minutes, I had to put my feet further back on the pegs because I was scraping my toes on the ground. I made a lot of progress really fast. Also, I had a whole lot more fun.

Short version: Same noob, two bikes, 15 seconds difference.

Its obvious that smaller, lighter bikes are preferable for gymkhana. My point is that, at least for a noob, how the bike is geared and how well that bike runs as very small throttle openings and low rpm makes a HUGE difference in rideability. On the CRF, I can start learning without the variables of the brake or clutch.

I have no doubt that a more talented rider could put up some good times on my monster. However, I didn’t realize just how much easier the CRF is to ride until I compared the two on the GP8. It will take much, much more practice before I can use the monster as well as the CRF.

(arbutus, I don’t know why your bike doesn’t run well down low, but seriously, try to find out and fix it. My monster runs poorly because Ducati wants to put up certain horsepower numbers while still meeting emissions requirements, which means the bike runs super lean at part throttle. I am still trying to figure out if I can fix that without paying for a whole new exhaust and ECU that eliminates the O2 sensors ($$$). )

Sorry for the novel everyone. I hope this helps others who are just starting out.
i spent considerable money on my vfr800 to modify it to be smooth, why isnt it smooth when its a brand new bike, because the fuggin emitions, being an old design, they have added crap to it, and added crap to it tha twas just never designed to have. the emissions tests are only done at low revs, at a certern speed, so these are the areas, they have detuned it, to use less fuel, less exhaust emmissions, less noise. they sacrifice usability down low, giving me surging, an on off throttle, and flat spots.

full staino race exhaust, removes the cat, free flowing, disabled PAIR air injection which pumped clean air into the exhaust system. and a powercommander 5, to remove the underfueling they have given it down low.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:02 AM   #1147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
Full-Lock aaargh!

Of course when the bike is at full-lock it is no longer possible to control it by counter steering so we have to use some other method.

We are so used to always being able to counter-steer that when we are no longer able to do so we get gripped by a deep, but understandable feeling of impending doom. We can overcome this by doing the 'kissing the stops' exercise which involves riding in a tight circle and similtaneously pressing on the rear brake and leaning out of the turn. If we're lucky the bars will come round and 'kiss' the lock stops for just a moment. The trick is to try and get the bars to do longer and longer kisses until we can do a complete 360 with the bars against the stops.

Top tip is to not close the throttle during the exercise as the bike will want to fall over completely with it closed.
Wow awesome! I now have my afternoon planned!
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:23 AM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
Full-Lock aaargh!

Of course when the bike is at full-lock it is no longer possible to control it by counter steering so we have to use some other method.

We are so used to always being able to counter-steer that when we are no longer able to do so we get gripped by a deep, but understandable feeling of impending doom. We can overcome this by doing the 'kissing the stops' exercise which involves riding in a tight circle and similtaneously pressing on the rear brake and leaning out of the turn. If we're lucky the bars will come round and 'kiss' the lock stops for just a moment. The trick is to try and get the bars to do longer and longer kisses until we can do a complete 360 with the bars against the stops.

Top tip is to not close the throttle during the exercise as the bike will want to fall over completely with it closed.
nice advise and instruction.

if there is any slop in the throttle cables the slow work (and faster stuff) at the stops suffers. a snatchy on/off throttle at slow speeds and full lock is so aggravating.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:24 PM   #1149
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Quick note for those who are not on our Facebook page and group. This weekend session is rescheduled to SUNDAY 05.19.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:13 AM   #1150
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Just to show everybody that Moto Gymkhana can sometimes bite back, our friend Fumikatsu Nakamura made this little video. Now Nakamura-san is an expert rider with many years of experience under his belt and this little crash compilation shows that when you become dedicated to the sport the odd "off" is inevitable. He put the video together to show clothing manufacturers the types of falls that are experienced by Moto Gymkhana riders so that they can improve their designs. The last dismount is a cracker!

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Old 05-15-2013, 06:30 AM   #1151
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^^^

if rankings are shown by vest number then that number nine should get moved up to the number two spot real soon. he fell twice within seconds of each other. obvious why the number one guy got his spot.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:04 PM   #1152
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they are sooooo smooth
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:22 AM   #1153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
..... The last dismount is a cracker!
I like the last dismount, a kindred spirit this was my first attempt at Moto Gymkhana, but I'll be back for more.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:15 AM   #1154
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Be careful with that ninja!

After two thirty minute sessions, one yesterday one today, of that kissing the stops exercise, I was able to make a full lock 360 degree turn using the rear brake and throttle to keep from going down and keep from coming off the stops. I was very happy about this!

I was only able to do this turning to the right however, turning to the left is for some reason more difficult. It seems like I have to lean further or lean the bike over further to get it to turn as sharply to the left as to the right.


This exercise is really helping me make "on-demand" very tight u-turns and I can now do them within 2 parking spaces without any warmup time. I am ready to tackle the BRC2!
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:27 AM   #1155
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I think we'll start a trend for our next session.

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