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Old 08-14-2013, 04:10 AM   #1366
Jezza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
Of course, it's not possible to counter-steer the bike if the steering is at full-lock so we have to use the throttle and brake combination to steer the bike instead.

To see this technique in action check out Sakuta-san as he negotiates a rotation turn.

Thanks Moto G man, great example, there is so much you can learn from theses few seconds of slow-mo. Nice wide approach, tightening quickly on the brakes to full lock at, I would guess at the 9.5 second mark. Body position, upright slightly pushing the bike down to increase the bike lean, thereby allowing the bike to turn tighter. Right toe is always low, holding on the rear brake while turning.

And as you say, already on full lock, so you can't counter-steer out (hadn't really thought of that before) at 31 sec you clearly see him early on the gas, then as the forks extent and speed builds, the bike sits up and he's quickly away. I guess he will hold very slightly, a tighter angle of steering on exit as he comes off full lock, to get that counter-steer effect and make the bike sit up quicker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
you're done with (front) braking and on the throttle again by apex, right ? assuming we can call it a real apex in a 180 degree turn etc
Yes, by the apex I am pretty much off the brakes, trying to set a fixed throttle position to keep the bike at a constant speed, with tiny changes of gas if corrections are needed, I also use my foot pressure and/or hips to change the bike lean. My Kawasaki Ninja 1000 is quite heavy and I have found if I set my tickover to 1500 rpm, it prevents the bike from slowing down too much and wanting to fall down into a attempted full lock turn, which I am still not getting consistently, but I'm working on it, also I am still not using my back brake enough, but I'm guessing these two failings are connected?
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:38 AM   #1367
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I'm not sure about it being a failing... just a different style of trying. I'm over using the rear, or using it too long. back when I used dirt gearing, I would keep on throttle all the way around, and only chopping for the heavy braking, and then modulating rear for speed/stability.

if there were more events, id definitely have a 14/47 on the drz for better slow speed stuff and a lot less clutch work.

may go out for some rain work this afternoon if stuff cooperates. :)

tomorrow is the weekly gp8... we should have TWO events less than 20 minutes from each other, at the same time.

how cool is that?
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:51 AM   #1368
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Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
This is fastest rider on our course, so take notes.
Well, I'm definitely going to start to follow the front brake advice at the next session. I boiled my rear brake fluid after a few successive laps last time and had the pedal fall through. The next day I thought I'd take a look at my rear rotor and counted 8() cracks in it.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:39 AM   #1369
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Well, I'm definitely going to start to follow the front brake advice at the next session. I boiled my rear brake fluid after a few successive laps last time and had the pedal fall through. The next day I thought I'd take a look at my rear rotor and counted 8() cracks in it.
Perhaps our 919 rear rotors weren't meant for such abuse. 1 of my cracks is about 3mm wide and runs down the entire surface of the rotor. Bike still brakes fine though with the rear, but I have a new set of rotors and pads coming tomorrow.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:56 AM   #1370
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Had to post this, to show gymkhama is nothing new, except perhaps the phrase itself. This is a pic of my dad, in 1948, at age 26 on his Jawa 350 during a street competition in Oss, Holland
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:54 AM   #1371
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Got it dead right Jezza. Sakuta-san is one of the toppity top riders and has been doing it for so many years and has practiced so many times, he's forgotten how he does it.

Essentially he picks the bike up from the turn by increasing the amount of driving force available which he does by releasing the brake(s). With the throttle already a fair way open as soon as the brake comes off the bike wants to fall out of the turn and yes he keeps the steering at full lock for just a fraction just to make everything work for him.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:49 AM   #1372
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Had to post this, to show gymkhama is nothing new, except perhaps the phrase itself. This is a pic of my dad, in 1948, at age 26 on his Jawa 350 during a street competition in Oss, Holland
Thats pretty awesome! Any more of these?

I'm sure Gymkhana type riding is as old as motorcycle itself. There will always be people looking for faster speed, as well as folks enjoying very technical riding.
Not only that, but Gymkhana in itself is an old sport with horses.

Very cool photo, definitely post more if you have them, would love to see some history behind this sport.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:25 AM   #1373
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Not quite as old as the wonderful Black & White photo from Andyvh1959, but here is a short clip of me "back in the day" I am the 3rd rider on the RAF team, Jerry Melville The bike is a 250 Can Am Bombardier.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #1374
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Not quite as old as the wonderful Black & White photo from Andyvh1959, but here is a short clip of me "back in the day" I am the 3rd rider on the RAF team, Jerry Melville The bike is a 250 Can Am Bombardier.
Awesome.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:09 PM   #1375
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Fantastic video Jezza.
Was eyeballing a bombardier on an oldtimber fair a few months ago. Cool motorcycles.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:12 PM   #1376
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
Had to post this, to show gymkhama is nothing new, except perhaps the phrase itself. This is a pic of my dad, in 1948, at age 26 on his Jawa 350 during a street competition in Oss, Holland
with your permission, id like to use your dads picture in my weekly gp8 thread, rider and son noted, of course.
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:04 PM   #1377
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Originally Posted by Jezza View Post
Not quite as old as the wonderful Black & White photo from Andyvh1959, but here is a short clip of me "back in the day" I am the 3rd rider on the RAF team, Jerry Melville The bike is a 250 Can Am Bombardier.
Holy cow Jerry, no wonder we can't keep up with you! Very cool.
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:22 PM   #1378
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oh ya, I gorgot to say "wow, that's pretty dang cool!"
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:25 PM   #1379
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the pic and video are awesome!

regarding gymkhana and horses, I grew up doing that. had no idea it was a motorcycle thing until I discovered this thread. naturally, my interest was piqued.

it's called "Omoksee" outside of california and supposedly originated with native american horseback games. you can get really messed up doing it via horseback, I was dragged behind a horse one time. no gear. would rather do it via motorcycle.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:13 AM   #1380
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
Had to post this, to show gymkhama is nothing new, except perhaps the phrase itself. This is a pic of my dad, in 1948, at age 26 on his Jawa 350 during a street competition in Oss, Holland
WOW, AWESOME PICTURE!
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