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Old 05-30-2012, 04:57 PM   #211
bokad OP
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Nope, not at all the way I expected. And I'm fine with that. Maybe you guys should be thanking me?
I still stand by what I said though.
Maybe Ural will do great in the future and sell lots more because of this thread. I doubt it though. They're living in the past, catering to a shrinking, niche. Time will tell. Either they will modernize and improve quality of work or they'll go out of business.

I'm not sure what people are trying to prove by offering to buy my rig for $1000 while it's not even in the country?
What exactly does it show that I won't sell this RPOC for less than what I could get for it elsewhere at a time when it's not even possible to sell it?
Just posturing and theatrics I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Ya know bokad this thread may not turn out the way you thought it would, you already have folks wanting to BUY your rig maybe you should hold an auction, SELL that RPOC and get some of your money back. You should also contact Ilya, and ask if you can get a percentage on Ural's sold in the future because of the exposure to many who perhaps would not have even considered buying one if not for your thread. I can see at least two silver linings to this supposed dark cloud.

bokad screwed with this post 05-30-2012 at 11:54 PM
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:03 PM   #212
uraldog
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still waiting for sale info -- just out of curiosity did your wife and or girl friend give you any problems initially and after weeks/months of physical and emotional camaraderie -- if so -- did you find a forum to berate, tear down, and generally inflame her family or did you put on dem big boy panties and man up and either fix what was wrong or find another that would do what you wanted her to do ---------- life's to short for this shit --- BTW -- when you start to age and mature some, you'll find that your own body aint gonna work like you think it should either --- guess who your gonna have to bitch to about that ??
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:07 PM   #213
Oldmanriding
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I was not posturing. When you get back PM me regards the M-70 if you wish to sell it. I am interested if you wish to sell it for a reasonable price. I think there are still a few at Dealers so apparently the solo at least did not do as well as hoped.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:11 PM   #214
MartyL
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When was the last time you did a,"Dirty Sanchez" while riding down a rocky trail? Urals are the best!
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:15 PM   #215
Slug.go
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I am sincere. Please PM me when/if you're ready to sell.
Enjoy the trip!
Also, do you have a ride report posted?
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:59 PM   #216
Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
You mean your highly modified lots of time spent on Ural, right? What does that have to do with the stock model? The rest of us ride. A $1200 scooter/moped is more capable here than the Ural.
The Ural's I have ridden in Death Valley were stone stock other then a hand made skid plate and left side crash bar, one of them had a hand made exhaust system and air box other then that they were the same rig that any other person can buy and ride. My highly modified Ural hasn't yet been to Death valley but I did take it to Moab a couple of years back, its mostly used for dual sport events or terrorizing the local mountains. "IF" "A $1,200 scooter/moped is more capable here then the Ural" I think it reflects more on the rider NOT picking the proper machine for the job at hand rather then that of the machine chosen.

In short take responsibility for YOUR actions and decisions, YOU are as much or more at fault then the machine. When I break my Ural's and I have broken just about anything that is possible to break on one, I don't blame the machine, I blame myself for asking it to do or attempt doing something it was NEVER designed to do. Does this mean that I am satisfied with the present quality of the Ural, no phuckinway I have asked for YEARS that some of its limitations be addressed, MANY of them have, but I still want more and will continue to ask for improvements.

There are things RIGHT now in the works that I can't talk about, things that are in my hand built rig that are being tested that if we ALL are lucky will if the cost of production can be afforded find their way into future production rigs. As has been said EVERY year the Ural gets better sometimes the changes are implemented during the production year, sometimes they are introduced at the yearly model change, the point being the Ural is in a constant state of evolution.

That said I have either repaired or helped repair bikes in Death Valley in which we took the final drive apart removed the broken teeth re assembled the final drive and drove the rig to where we could swap out the final drive. I have also replaced burnt pistons, worn out clutches, twisted drive-shafts and many other malfunctions while in the middle of nowhere with no dealer support other then the spares I carry or temporary fixes we can come up while on the trail. Try doing this with most other machines using only simple tools and back yard wrenching skills, I think you find it extremely difficult if at all possible

The point is you took a rig your not equipped to fix nor do you have the skills needed to do so even if you had the parts. The make of the rig is of little significance, would you have been any better off if you were riding a beemer and it broke or a KLR or ANY other machine, I doubt it.

Quote:
Oddly enough, I did contact them before I started. Not asking for support as I'm not so much in to handouts or being beholden to someone else. What I did do is say "Hey,FYI, I'm going to do this really cool thing on my Ural and also could you tell me the weight and dimensions of the Ural crate that you use to ship to dealers".
No response. No biggy, moved on.
WHO did you contact, I know the owners of the Ural company on a personal basis, I know the folks in charge of warranty, the parts department and the master mechanic Sergey, I am NOT calling you a lier but I am having a hard time giving credence to some of the things you have alluded to in your thread. If you contacted a dealer and didn't get the response or the information you needed did you contact ANYONE at corporate headquarters?

Your on a trip that many myself included would love to be able to afford, your on a machine that if ridden within its design parameters and if given the required maintenance for a machine of its type will go just about anywhere. That you took on the task of such a journey into areas that YOU knew were going to be difficult if not impossible to get service or repairs if needed WITHOUT prior planning is no ones fault but your own. That the machine may have failed as ALL machines are prone to do especially when pushed beyond what they are designed to do, is a given, its how YOU have handled the situation that speak volumes.

SELL your Ural's, someone else will enjoy them and ride them for YEARS. Spend your money on some other machine that "might" meet your expectations. All I know is if I was in your shoes, busted Ural or not, I could fix it or somehow get what I needed to get it back on the road and would wake each day thankful to be alive and greet each day as a new challenge rather then piss and moan about a supposed RPOC.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:03 PM   #217
rider33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davide View Post
I think the folks at corporate Ural should be delighted by this thread. Very few companies have customers so emotionally involved with the product... When the geniuses at Piaggio decided that Vespa was an obsolete name brand and changed it to Cosa (=Thing) there was almost an uprising among Italian Vespistas. They fired a couple of big shots and brought the Vespa name back in a hurry. Cannot see Honda riders go up in arms because the Shadow will now be called something else... Anyway, the difference is that as far as the US market is concerned, Ural is a relatively young company while it took Harley, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, Piaggio, etc.the better part of a century to accomplish this...
You make a very good point. In the end it's not how much a bike costs, how much wrenching you have to do on it, or even if it meets your expectations. A motorcycle is not fundamentally a rational decision it's an emotional one, and the depth of that connection can be gauged in the loyalty of its owners. That a small, young company has this many folks responding so strongly, so quickly tells you something- a lesson that seems to be lost these days on many of the majors. At the moment I own 6 bikes, 5 of which require less TLC than the Ural. And which one do I find myself riding the most, which would be the last one I would part with if need be? You guessed it, the crazy Russian side car rig. 'Certainly an acquired taste but like a really good Vodka, it sort of grows on you.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:04 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
Why you should NOT buy a Ural motorcycle!

The question is often asked here and elsewhere, 'Should I buy a Ural or ... ?'

So, I will write this comprehensive post to link to whenever someone asks the question.

It's not intended to start a fight. There are a few reasons to buy a Ural and quite a few people are very happy with theirs. There is always someone to love an ugly duckling. I am sure some of those people will rise to the defense of Ural and nitpick on specific details. Others will say funny stuff like 'you should be looking at the road, not your speedometer' to indicate that you are wrong to expect gauges to work.
I believe that if you're buying a new bike at new bike prices then you deserve new bike quality.
Old technology is not an excuse for poor quality control.

I wish I had read something like this before I bought my Urals.

I thought a Ural would be fun. But I'm tired of a quick trip to the store turning in to 2 hours of roadside maintenance. Or being late for an event/work/school because although the bike ran just fine last night you get on it in the morning and it's broke.
Do you want to spend your time riding or tinkering? I prefer riding.

(1) They are unreliable, require frequent maintenance, and have poor quality control.

(2) They are poorly designed and extremely non user friendly.

(3) Ural warranty, it doesn't cover roadside assistance or towing from your breakdown location. Covered by warranty but you will still have out of pocket expenses when it breaks.

(4) Safety

(5) Even the Ural community acknowledges they are crap.

(6) Poor dealer network

(7) General reasoning: Would you buy anything else made in Russia?

(8) There are other sidecar options in the same price range that are much more reliable.

(9) Things that are broken on my TWO new Urals in less than 6000km (3700 miles) and 7 months.

(10) Good things about Ural motorcycles.

(11) Ural Deniers


--------------------------------------


(1) Urals are UNRELIABLE, there is POOR QUALITY CONTROL, and they require FREQUENT maintenance.
Unreliable is of course a relative term, and I mean unreliable compared to any other new motorcycle sold in the USA today. People get defensive when you say they are unreliable but I'd LOVE to hear someone say that on AVERAGE a Ural is more reliable than a [Harley, Triumph, Honda, Yamaha, BMW, Suzuki, etc...]

- There are so many things to go wrong on a Ural. Things you would never expect. Things that should never happen on a NEW bike. The best way to see this is to go spend some time browsing the Hammerin and Wrenchin forum over at Soviet Steeds. http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/
Read it, think about it, this is what is in your future if you decide to buy a Ural.
You are paying new bike prices and getting forty year old quality.

Generalities:
- Incredibly short maintenance intervals. Oil change and more required every 1500 miles
- The paint they use in the gas tank throat starts peeling immediately and falling in to the gas tank. You should remove all the paint somehow then take out the fuel petcock for cleaning.
- Riding in the rain or wet leads to drenched air filter and water in the carbs.
- They use soft metal for many of the bolts. Recommended to replace them before the head strips.
- Almost everyone I've met has a wildly inaccurate odometer. Mine is off by 8%.
- It's very common to have an inaccurate or swinging speedometer.
- The inner tubes they use are known to be extra leaky. Expect to check your tires often and add air every few days or week.
- The vacuum operated fuel petcock is recommended to be changed by many. It has a reputation for failing and flooding the cylinder with gas and also for not working well at altitude.
- The air pump a Ural comes with is generally accepted as worthless and known to burst on first use. Not a big deal but representive of Ural quality.
- Because it doesn't meet standards they're not able to sell a gas can accessory, just a 'fluid cannister'
- The first thing many new Ural owners do when they get one is set about replacing and up grading the things that are known to be crap.
- They are known to leak and seep oil from engine, transmission, and final drive. So you should check your levels often to prevent future failures.
- The dual carb setup leads to many problems.
- Your Ural will rust, and quickly.


Here are some choice problems. I looked for posts that took place in the last 6 months and about bikes that were 2010 or newer.
Go further back in time for posts or look at older bikes and it gets much much worse!
Given the relatively low numbers of Urals sold there sure seems to be alot of problems.
And this is just one forum.

Brand new Ural, dead while driving home from the dealer ( < 2 hours):
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=22015

Final drive failure on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=20845

Transmission failure on new (< 5 miles) bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=19054

Kick starter snaps in half on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21420

Cylinder full of water and hydro-lock on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21904

Driveline (donut) failure resulting in tow home on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21048

Transmission failure on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21854
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=20542

Gas in crankcase of new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=19703

Front brake failure on new Ural:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21185

New-ish bike, horn stops working:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=22188

Clutch actuating rod failure on new bike (2nd post)
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21877

Speedometer failure on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21633

Running lights stop working on new Ural:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21581

Turn signals stop working on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21749

Carb problem resulting in only one cylinder working on new bike
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21553

Can't go above 15mph on new bike, unknown problem:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=21379

Brake switch failure on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=20808

Carb problems on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=20560

Starter/battery problems on new bike:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=20198



These are all major problems. Minor things that are loose, leaking, or electricly disconnected are a more frequent but petty annoyance.

But hey, even something as simple as a poorly done electrical connection can leave you stranded.


(2) Urals are poorly designed. Simple tasks become overly complicated. They seemed to be DESIGNED to be non user friendly and hard to work on. These are just examples, representative of the overall Ural experience. When you ride a well designed bike you just feel it. And the longer you ride it the more you appreciate the subtle things and how it just works and feels good. Things are simple, well placed, smooth, and easy to use. And the same is true for a crap bike. The more you ride it, the more the failings are evident. For example but not limited too...
- The battery is notoriously difficult to get to.
- The reverse shift knob becomes too hot to touch/user after extended driving. You can burn your hand here.
- Neutral is notoriously hard to find
- 2wd CAN BE impossible to engage when the bike is not moving. So you should have the forsight to enage 2wd BEFORE you get stuck.
- Stearing is quite difficult with 2wd engaged (because there is no differential)
- You can't use 2wd on hard surfaces (because there is no differential)
- You can't get a copy of your Ural keys. Ural doesn't offer key blanks. Some say there other blanks that will sort of work if you can get a custom locksmith to modify them. I went to 4 locksmiths and none could make a copy of the Ural key.
- The center stand is just short enough to make it almost impossible to get the rear tire out. There is no flip up rear fender.
- There is no fuel gauge or even low fuel light (although there is a reserve function on the petcock)
- The odomoter is in kilometers.
- The odometer and speedometer are more general indicators than actual tools of measurement.
- For some reason they can't design a trunk that keeps water out. They leak.
- The owners and maintenance manuals provided by Ural are horribly out of date. Refering to parts that have changed or been eliminated and procedures that are no longer needed or are incorrect.
- The light for the speedometer and odometer is insufficient to actually be able to read them at night.
- They require premium fuel
- The gas mileage is not so good, 25 to 30mpg
- Although marketed as rough and adventure ready, the Ural has some basic failings. There is not enough low end torque, especially when the engine is hot. The gearing is not low enough. Off road yes. Off road and hilly, no.
- The stock tractor seat is very much like sitting on a tractor. One of the worse stock seats around.
- The rear drum brakes, by design or poor set up, are damn near useless. (People will say that most of your breaking power comes from the front anyway due to weight transfer but this is much less so on a sidecar rig and 2/3rds of your road gripping tire surface is in the rear!)


(3) The Ural warranty.
Yes, Ural has a warranty. What it doesn't cover is the expense of recovering the bike or getting the broken parts back to the dealer.
So when your Ural breaks down on the side of the road (and it will), YOU eat the cost of the tow truck or trailer or whatever else is needed to get it home.
What do you do when you're a mere 30 miles from home and the nearest dealer is another 100 miles away? How much does that cost you in time and money?


(4) Safety. Having a well maintained and reliable machine is key to safey in motorcycling. Think about the things that happen with Urals and then think about if you want them to happen while you're rolling through traffic, around a corner,at highway speed, or in the middle of the night on an empty stretch of road when the next car might not pass for hours.
Final drive dies and locks up the wheels? Brakes give out? Engine dies due to electric problems?
At least on the hack you have three wheel stability. God help you on a solo!


(5) Yes, even the Ural community knows they are crap and joke about it amongst themselves.
Read Ural owners stories. How many of them involve fixing something? How many of them of them mention trailer or towed home?
There's a cute acronym "RPOC" for Russian Piece Of Crap. It's used often.
There is a long thread devoted to "It didn't break today" for self affirmation because with a Ural, that's something to celebrate.
They develop safety procedures like kick starting the bike with the ignition off to check and see if the cylinder might be full of gas or water.
Here's some great quotes that summarize the general Ural owner experience and attitude.
"Keep your spirits up.....it's a Ural!!!"
"sorry to hear that you are having problems, good thing is its still under warrenty."
"In 2 days I will have had the bike for a Year. It's been down 2 1/2 months and counting at this point."


(6) Poor dealer network. This is my opinion, based on lots of forum reading. There are alot of very inexperienced and low quality Ural dealers. This probably stems from the fact that most dealers don't sell many Urals and so haven't invested alot of time in training, etc... The forums are riddled with stories of terrible dealer setup and maintenance. Quite a few people just recommend to do the maintenance yourself since it's safer that way and at least you will know it is done right. Many (most?) dealers are still in the stone age. No online store, no credit card payments.
Often dealers use an "that's just how Urals are" excuse to cover up their inability or lack of desire to fix a problem.


(7) Made in Russia. This is part of Urals story and history. One of their selling points even, it's cool and unique to have something made in Russia. Stereotypes exist for a reason and you know what the stereotype about Russian quality is, right?
Let's think about this for a minute.

Would you buy a Russian (car, airliner, watch, television, parachute, ski lift, computer, food stuffs, clothes, camera, pacemaker, elevator)? No, you wouldn't, because you know they are all likely low quality. You know what, Russians wouldn't either. Given a choice, they avoid their own national brands like the plague. Ural sells almost no bikes in their home country. Think that is coincidence? Russians know what Russian quality is.

So what, you think that Ural motorcycles are somehow a fortunate exception to this trend? A golden egg laid by diseased goose? Good luck with that!

You wouldn't buy anything else made in Russia so why would you consider getting a Ural?!


(8) There are other sidecar options. When I first started looking at sidecars I thought it was going to be hard getting a sidecar put on a regular bike and that Ural was the only direct non hassle option. I know better now. Read the hack forums on advrider and you will find quite a few experienced and quality places that can put together a street or dual sport rig for you. For as little as $12,000, with a brand new bike. That's less than the price of a new Ural and will be more comfortable, more reliable, and smoother running. If you are price comparing to Ural, don't forget to factor in the expenses of fixing, towing, and much needed modifications. Also your time. People talk about UDF (Ural Delay Factor) and meeting nice people because of the bike. You will meet people on any unusual bike, any sidecar. You don't need a Ural to get attention. Personally I think UDF refers to the delays you will have from Ural problems.


(9) Things broken or not working on my TWO new Urals in less than 6000km (3700 miles) and 7 months. I include this not to cry about my bikes but as personal anectdote and to prevent those 'you don't know what you're talking about, you don't even own a Ural' claims.

2010 Ural Patrol, purchased new in October 2011 (~7 months ago), 6000km, 3700 miles
- Final drive failure. Stranded halfway up a hill in a very rural area.
- Bike dies uphill in traffic due to loose electrical connector in headlight assembly.
- 1/4 of pusher brake shoe broken off
- Steering dampener broken
- Left rear turn signal stops working several times due to loose wire and bulb
- Broken pusher brake spring (not certain yet, gotta get back to the bike to find that horrible noise)
- Trunk lock doesn't lock, replaced.
- Tire pump blew out on first use.
- Rear brake light switch malfunction/stuck
- Misc loose/lost nuts that we're tightened well enough and came off.
- Trunk doesn't seal, water gets inside during rain
- Speedometer light too dim to read speedomoter or odometer at night
- Ural cargo cannister bracket broke (bad welding?)
- Peeling paint in gas tank throat necessitates paint removal and removal/clean of petcock.
- Odometer inaccurate by 8%
- Speedomoter inaccurate above 55mph.

2012 Ural M70 Solo, purchased February 2012 (4 months ago), 2500km, 1500 miles
- Crash bar has large hole in it, not structurally intact. Replaced.
- Steering dampener broken.
- Water leaks in to left carb (unsolved how), float bowl needs to be drained after rain or washing.
- Speedometer bounces across a 20mph range.
- Kick start doesn't work. Not enough throw in the lever.
- Gas tank is advertised and spec'd to 5.8 gallons but only holds 5 gallons from COMPLETELY drained. 14% short!
- Headlight assembly loose, doesn't hold angle position.
- Bulb in speedomoter too dim to see speedometer and odomoter at night.


(10) Good things about Ural motorcycles.
- They come with 2wd. You can do this on other sidecar outfits but it's pretty complex.
- They have a reverse gear. Useful. Can be done on other outfits but difficult.
- Comes with a warranty.
- Easy access. You can walk in to a dealer and walk out with the bike today.


(11) Ural Deniers
Here's a few types:
- 'That could happen on any bike!'. Yes, it could, but it happens much more frequently on Urals.

- 'Yah, maybe you got a bad bike but that doesn't mean they are all bad.' No, certainly not all but a way higher percentage than what should be. We're talking averages, remember?

- 'It's not bad.' Ask this person to honestly say how much time they've spent wrenching on their bike, what problems they have fixed and things that have been adjusted or upgraded.

- 'That problem can be fixed with...' Yep, lots of things can be fixed with time and money but basic things should work right out of the box.

- 'You don't really need to know your speed or distance traveled anyway (etc...) anyway, who cares about that new fangled odometer stuff!'

- 'They're much better than they used to be.' Absolutely, MUCH better, but still crap.

- 'You're an idiot/wanker/liar/pussy because you don't like my brand of bike.' Well said sir!

- 'My dealer is a great guy. The people at IMZ (Ural) are great.' Sure! And what does that have to do with the quality of the bike?

- Glowing magazine and website reviews. Yes, they look great and they're fun to ride for awhile. But that reviewer didn't end up laying out his own cash for the bike, did he? He didn't own it for years, didn't keep up with the maintenance and repairs, didn't put it in his daily life. I've met lots of people (reviewers and others) who say 'that's awesome, I would totally get one', but when the time comes, when they have money to spend, they don't.
Kawalasers fake noob?
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:18 PM   #219
gobium
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Joined: May 2012
Location: south of south pole
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Only the strong and stuborn can ride an ural. Don't want to get your hands dirty........Ural is not for you.

gobium screwed with this post 05-30-2012 at 08:22 PM
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:33 PM   #220
RAMKILR
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Location: San Jose, Ca, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
I believe you are probably thinking of California, which would likely be due to emissions standards. If so, Ural wouldn't be the only vehicle you can't buy there. At one point you couldn't buy diesel cars there.
So, the dealer that has a shop about 15 miles from my house doesn't exist? I think all of Ski's customers will be surprised to hear this - not to mention Ski himself! Urals are indeed available in California, and have a fairly decent following. I know when I go on a typical Patriot Guard mission there will be probably anywhere from 1/4 million to a million dollars worth of Harleys in the formation, but it's my Ural, that I paid $6500 for that draws the crowd!
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:37 PM   #221
Poacher Bob
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Will the last person out of S/S shut off the lights?

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Old 05-30-2012, 07:57 PM   #222
J-Dub
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Joined: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, So Cal, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poacher Bob View Post
Will the last person out of S/S shut off the lights?

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Old 05-30-2012, 07:57 PM   #223
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Location: Arizona
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This has inspired me to watch One Crazy Ride. An unemployed filmmaker and friends go on a ride. They use Royal Einfelds, one was brand new for the trip. It failed. Lady riding it was bummed but they fixed her bike and rode on. The filmmaker ended up riding alone for the last leg because of another bike failure. But you should see the crap they rode through with NO support trucks, no Royal Einfeld to send them parts, etc. Not something I could ever do. But the filmmaker finished the ride. Some of the best parts were watching how they made it through the tough parts and bike breaks.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:03 PM   #224
ruckuschick
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Oh btw ::CLICK:: turning out the lights...
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:47 PM   #225
Mr. Cob
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Location: Granite Falls, Washington State, USA
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Howdy All,

One of the things I have enjoyed about this thread is how many folks made the very FIRST ever post to ADV-Rider and many SS members who posted over here that I have never before seen post on ADV-Rider. I think its a great thread, it shows that even thou we "Uralista's" are a tin foil hat wearing bunch, we are also HONEST about the rig, its capabilities and its liabilities something pretty damned rare nowadays when talking about a large cash investment.
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