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Old 07-11-2012, 11:03 PM   #1156
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
Yes, the rear brakes are sucky. Experienced Ural riders doing all sorts of funny things like putting hose clamps on the brake pedal to get them to work better (thanks Windmill, that was a good easy mod and did help).

Ural logic is a funny thing.
If you DON'T mess with the dealer setup then they say "of course it wasn't set up right from the factory, you need to fix/adjust it yourself with some sandpaper and chalk and a file, everyone knows that!"
and if you DO adjust it then they say "you shouldn't have touched it, you should have left it alone, you phucked it up!"


.
I'm glad it worked for you, and yes a Urals rear brakes are only as strong as the foot using it. I can lock mine but it takes conscious effort, kinda think of it as a poor mans ABS.

I finally replaced my pusher brake pads not too long ago, I didn't bother with all the fancy chalking and sanding. that works if you want maximum breaking power "right now", but I just put them on with the shoe adjusters set exactly the same and they bedded themselves in in a couple hundred km with a bit of intentional over usage on hills, some folks do tend to get over complicated with simple things.

The biggest problem is folks set the rod adjuster too tight, it needs free play or it will drag, the hotter the drum, the less braking power you will have.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:05 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by Heyload View Post
This. Right here. None of us are there, none of us are in Bokad's shoes right now. It's easy to play armchair quarterback.
Seem's like we could do a little better as a group.
Thanks, I do appreciate it.

I'm certainly not expecting any moral support from the Ural crowd, just the typical good kicking and personal insults.
That's fine though. I'm not sitting on the side of the road crying about it either.

What I am doing is honestly posting my experiences with this bike. I know that some don't like that and will blame anything other than the bike itself. Later on someone will have the same problem and do a search and find that it's happened before and go aha. Or maybe it will prevent someone from having the same problem.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:09 PM   #1158
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Originally Posted by DaFoole View Post
It is NOT a modern bike.
Excuses excuses1
What part of the Brembo disc brake is it that is not modern?
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:12 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by bokad View Post
Yes, the rear brakes are sucky. Experienced Ural riders doing all sorts of funny things like putting hose clamps on the brake pedal to get them to work better (thanks Windmill, that was a good easy mod and did help).

Ural logic is a funny thing.
If you DON'T mess with the dealer setup then they say "of course it wasn't set up right from the factory, you need to fix/adjust it yourself with some sandpaper and chalk and a file, everyone knows that!"
and if you DO adjust it then they say "you shouldn't have touched it, you should have left it alone, you phucked it up!"
The operating mechanism on Ural drum brakes is crappy! They should have copied the superior KMZ system. (It was probably a Zündapp design, have to look at a KS750 next chance I get.) The pad material is designed to last for the life of the bike - great on a round the world tour, not so great if you want to stop and have "feel" in the brakes. Setting them up to work properly IS required, and it's always been that way. People used to get their shoes relined with better material, but that doesn't seem to happen any more. The factory probably should look at better pad material, but that will probably never happen.

The design of the original disk brake torque link was diabolical - it would bend if used in reverse - on a bike with a reverse gear. But I saw a 2012 Ural recently and I was impressed with the new torque link - a decent design.

Braking on a sidecar is very different to a solo, especially when heavily loaded. On long steep downhill runs you need to keep the brakes from overheating where possible. Using gears, alternating front and rear brakes are techniques, as is pulling over to let the brakes cool. Sometimes the killswitch is your friend.

I wasn't there, didn't see what happened, but I tend to believe that your technique played some contribution to the brake failing.

I hope you have de-glazed your pads and replaced the brake fluid to help stop a repeat incident. Good Luck and battle on.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:16 PM   #1160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
Please do detail the mechanical ineptitude. Or are you just claiming it without any information? Really, I want to learn, please tell me about my mechanical ineptitude.
It wasn't meant as a insult or judgment,

Some of your statements have given the impression of some limitations in mechanical sympathy, and you have stated it yourself that you are no mechanic and don't want to be.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #1161
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Originally Posted by DaFoole View Post
The front brake is good, BUT it does NOT have the capacity to handle the load this bike can carry.
If it does not have the capacity to handle the load the bike was meant for then that is an unsafe failure in design.
We're talking about a modern disc brake here, not some old tech.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFoole View Post
I HAVE ridden my Ural with me (260#) my GF (160#) and approx 120# of camping gear (beer cooler....) through coastal California mountains AND Sierra mountains. Lots of ups and downs, many passes. I HAVE had to back off on down hill runs owing to brakes heating up....INCLUDING pulling over to let the front cool off....several times.
There's another nice bit of Ural logic. Half of you say "no the brakes are fine, you must be doing something wrong for them to fail" while the other half says "of course they don't have the capacity for this bike, you should have known that!"
Damned if you do and damned if you don't .

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFoole View Post
You can feel fade. It doesn't just happen.
I've felt the brakes getting spongy before and knew to let them cool a bit. In this case that was't how it was. Solid brakes on one squeeze and then absolutely nothing the next.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFoole View Post
As I said before, it may be time for him to move on to another bike and continue his excellent adventures.
Let's be honest, another bike with a sidecar to ride isn't going to just materialize here is it?
This is the bike that I have and what the trip will be done with. I'll be honest with what it is good at and honest where it falls short. If you don't like the thread then don't read it...
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:23 PM   #1162
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Originally Posted by AlanCT View Post
The thing is, you should it start to get squishy if you are paying attention, and pull over to let it recover before it gets to the points of total failure. Was bokad's brake failure truly sudden?
I've had the spongy, things getting soft front brake feeling before and know to pull over and let it cool. In this case the brake was solidly there one pull and completely gone the next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanCT View Post
Glad you weren't hurt, and I hope the damage was minimal.
I wasn't and it was. Thanks!
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:29 PM   #1163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
Excuses excuses1
What part of the Brembo disc brake is it that is not modern?
Wouldn't this problem be a "Why you shouldn't use Brembo disc brake" thread? If it was a failure, and not an operator failure, that would be a Brembo issue. The question you don't want to answer it seems is "Why don't you sell the Ural"? If I felt my bike was risking my life, I wouldn't ride it, and I would sell it. It seems you enjoy pissing and moaning. You don't like it, just sell the fucking thing. No one is holding a gun to your head. Most front brake failures with Brembo happens at high altitude and with heavy braking. I'm guessing you are guilty of at least one if not both. The real question is if your life was in such danger, why didn't you down shift to brake? I would have had that fucker in first gear in about 2 seconds if I was unable to brake heading down a hill.

Somehow I have been able to drive my Ural with no front brake for 6 months. You can't even handle going down a hill? You can claim it isn't operator error, but all the evidence points at you being the one at fault here.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:37 PM   #1164
Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
Thanks for questioning my claim, it gave me the motivation to go out and search for others with the same problem. Wasn't that hard to quickly find a few. I guess it does happen to people other than me.

To be fair my rig gets a bit more stressed than average. I'm carrying two people and some luggage. Isn't that what it was designed for? I assume that is why it comes with three seats and a trunk. I know most of you are just carrying yourselves so the weight and strain on the brake system will be much less.

Other Ural front brake failures:
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=18794
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=18441
http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/v...hp?f=5&t=18205
Well you know what "assuming" will get you. MANY people have ridden their Ural heavily loaded and not had the problems you have. Since your so good at Internet researching, why don't you look up in my round the USA ride report where I weighed the rig at a truck stop in Wyoming and it clocked in at 1,440 pounds, or the guy who rode his to the Arctic Circle and it weighed over 1,800 pounds, both rigs up and down mountains for days on end and neither ran into a car.

You say your rig is more stressed then that of others, unless your not sharing the photos of where your rig has been stressed I have yet to see anything that shows much in the way of hard use let alone stress. I and others have ridden Ural's in terrain much worse then anything you have shown evidence of so far in anything you have posted. Your going out on the net and looking for other examples of parts breakage or failures to back up your claims only proves that perhaps others are also lacking in common sense mechanical-riding skills or are just as plagued with bad luck- bad batch syndrome as you are.

When you started this at first people tried to help you, offered advise and were for the most part sympathetic to your plight, it has now degenerated into a cyber piss and moan fest perpetuated by YOURSELF and those who just plain hate Ural's. Those of us who like the brand, own them, ride them, break them, fix them and then ride them some more have been more then HONEST in admitting that the machines have faults, I don't see where anyone even the most die hard Uralista has ever said or claimed that the machines were perfect or anywhere near perfect.

All who actually ride the damned things and have knowledge of them and their limitations have said over and over again you can't expect for the most part a 70 year old bike with a few modern up grades to perform to the standards one would expect from a contemporary design, built to modern production standards. Rather then accept that fact I guess its easier and more profound to just keep on bokading about how fucked up they. Like I said, its just my opinion but I think this thread will result in MORE Ural sales rather then fewer as is your purpose. Any impartial reader of this thread should be able to discern the bull shite from the hype on BOTH sides of the issue.

I hate to resort to an old refrain but it bears repeating, you don't like the Ural, it isn't suited to your needs, you have made this point over and over again, if your half as wise as you claim to be WHY are you still riding it? If you can't sell it as a whole bike, can you sell it as parts? If you can't sell it as parts and the only way you can get rid of it is to have it shipped back to the States what's stopping you from doing that, buying another machine and continuing your journey? To tell you the God's honest truth, if I had a machine that gave me as much trouble as the one you have and because of failures nearly killed me and someone I loved TWICE according to your account, I would have pulled the plates and ID numbers off the thing long ago and left it burning in a ditch if I couldn't legally sell it.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:40 PM   #1165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schatzman View Post
Wouldn't this problem be a "Why you shouldn't use Brembo disc brake" thread? If it was a failure, and not an operator failure, that would be a Brembo issue.
That would e one way to look at it. I see it as either the brake is not appropriate for the size and weight of the Ural or that there were contaminants in the fluid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schatzman View Post
The real question is if your life was in such danger, why didn't you down shift to brake? I would have had that fucker in first gear in about 2 seconds if I was unable to brake heading down a hill.
Uhhhh....it was in first gear.... but hey, blame the rider! I should be expecting the brakes to fail!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schatzman View Post
The question you don't want to answer it seems is "Why don't you sell the Ural"?
That got answered weeks ago. Maybe like post 200? Bottom line, not possible to sell it currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schatzman View Post
Somehow I have been able to drive my Ural with no front brake for 6 months. You can't even handle going down a hill? You can claim it isn't operator error, but all the evidence points at you being the one at fault here.
Yah yah, easy to do when you already know the front brake isn't there. A little bit more difficult when you expect them to be there and they are not. You of course are a perfect driver and would never run in to anything if your front brakes failed without warning...
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:52 PM   #1166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Well you know what "assuming" will get you. MANY people have ridden their Ural heavily loaded and not had the problems you have.
I agree. I'm not saying EVERYONE does have these problems. But certainly people other than me do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
You say your rig is more stressed then that of others,
I'm saying that most people are just carrying themselves and their stuff. I'm carrying an extra person and their stuff. i;m saying that this puts more strain than just carrying one person. Do you disagree?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
All who actually ride the damned things and have knowledge of them and their limitations have said over and over again you can't expect for the most part a 70 year old bike with a few modern up grades to perform to the standards one would expect from a contemporary design, built to modern production standards.
Oh please.... the "this is mostly a 70 year old bike" thing again. Please do tell, what the MOST parts of the Ural are that are 70 year old design?

You know why I keep riding? Because I'm a sucker and I always think the most recent failure will the last, that everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. But, it's a Ural so there is always a surprise!

I know that some don't like it that I point out it's faults. I bought it, I'm riding it, and I'm free to point out when it fails and others that have had the same fault. If it offends you so greatly, stop reading the thread.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:02 AM   #1167
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I'm glad it worked for you, and yes a Urals rear brakes are only as strong as the foot using it. I can lock mine but it takes conscious effort, kinda think of it as a poor mans ABS.
Or think of it as a poorly designed and shitty braking system!
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:05 AM   #1168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schatzman
Somehow I have been able to drive my Ural with no front brake for 6 months. You can't even handle going down a hill? You can claim it isn't operator error, but all the evidence points at you being the one at fault here.


You admit driving a dangerous vehicle for 6 months? Idiot.

There seems to be a lot of people on here who leap to conclusions
, I suppose you think that as I come from England I have bad teeth drink warm beer and know the queen, wrong on all 3 counts.

It does seem that Bokad has had a large barrel of shit thrown his way with the bike he has. He can't sell it until he gets back to the states and is stuck with it until then. In the meantime he is letting us know of the troubles he is finding with his bike, why berate him so much? It aint like he is climbing of your mother and saying she is a shit fuck is he?
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:09 AM   #1169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
I agree. I'm not saying EVERYONE does have these problems. But certainly people other than me do.


I'm saying that most people are just carrying themselves and their stuff. I'm carrying an extra person and their stuff. i;m saying that this puts more strain than just carrying one person. Do you disagree?



Oh please.... the "this is mostly a 70 year old bike" thing again. Please do tell, what the MOST parts of the Ural are that are 70 year old design?

You know why I keep riding? Because I'm a sucker and I always think the most recent failure will the last, that everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. But, it's a Ural so there is always a surprise!

I know that some don't like it that I point out it's faults. I bought it, I'm riding it, and I'm free to point out when it fails and others that have had the same fault. If it offends you so greatly, stop reading the thread.
There is absolutely NOTHING that you could say that would offend me, in order to be offended one has to have some respect for the person who supposedly did the offending. You in this thread have proved to anyone who takes the time to read it that you are incapable of taking advise or help when it is offered and repay such attempts with sarcasm and poor attempts at ridicule.

Unless you were dangerously tailgating the car in front of you and "IF" the rig was in as you said 1st gear, I find it real hard to understand why you hit the car. I mean how fucking fast can a Ural go in first gear, I can LOCK the rear brakes up on my Ural at the speed the damned thing will go in 1st gear with out even touching the front brake. did you STAND on the rear brake pedal, did you turn the kill switch OFF, did you swerve if conditions allowed it in an attempt to prevent the crash? Did you HONESTLY do everything you could to stop the rig before hitting the car, or were you not paying attention to the situation as you crept up to close to the car in front of you and then failed to take every action you could to prevent the crash?

As has been said, "I" wasn't there so there is no way I can 100% say what you say isn't true; I do have enough miles riding a Ural in all kinds of situations to seriously question your ability to handle it or your skill in recognizing its and your limitations.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:13 AM   #1170
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Personally, I prefer cable operated drum brakes all the way around. There's been a couple of places I really had no business being on an old bike, but if I would've had discs up front, they'd've probably gotten bent/smashed/dinged up. Plus you lose the all wheel interchangeability.

However, I do drive accordingly and plan all required braking with Map Quest!!!
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