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Old 07-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #1246
Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspell68 View Post
Backpressure on a Ural crankshaft sounds like a recipe for disaster!
I don't know how well the 750 cranks are built and if they'd stand up to a Jake brake, but I'm pretty sure if you tried that on a 650, you could afterwards remove the crank through the drainplug!!!
Howdy gspell68,

I agree, the old 650 crank would not have lasted more then a few revolutions with the type of strain an exhaust brake would put on it. The new style 750 is stronger but even if the crank itself could withstand the stress and I don't think it would for very long I would be more concerned about the crank and rod bearings going bad as they are loaded more heavily now then when the engine was only 650cc.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:10 PM   #1247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Armor View Post
Seriously? The list would be a lot shorter the other way around.

The parts NOT a 70 year old design: electronic ignition, front disk brake, electric starter, alternator. Just because the materials may be newer, or produced with better equipment, doesn't mean the overall design is any better. If I built the Wright Brother's plane out of aircraft aluminum, that doesn't make it handle like an F-16. Likewise, if I added an actual jet engine, that still doesn't make it behave like a modern plane. I'm not saying your brakes didn't crap out of their own accord, but I simply don't agree with you on the "modern bike" statements.

BTW, glad you're not dead. That's scary shite when the unexpected happens, regardless of where the fault lies.

~HA
Howdy Heavy Armor,

Its not of much use to write a common sense post such as yours, it won't be received well. That said thanks for bringing a touch of reality to this fiasco of a thread.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:14 PM   #1248
Mr. Cob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montague View Post
Ahem, Billy it would appear you waded in on the shit slinging very early in this thread, something around the 3rd or 4th post.

Sorry, but as one of the "deluded", I must say your kettle is as black as any pot............

Glad you are not buying a Urinal, we the Ural Cabal have met in judgement of you and decided you are not worthy
Howdy Montague,

"Ural Cabal", now that is some funny shite, I don't care which side of the fence your on............
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:45 PM   #1249
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billtr96sn View Post
I have kept up with this thread right from the start and have also been in touch with our importer regarding buying one as I was seriously considering it as Bokads experiences hadn't put me off.

Now though, I will be saving my money and may invest it in my current outfit an other bikes, once again,not because of Bokad but because I do not wan't to be tarred with the same brush as the 'Uralista' I have come across on this forum.

There are a couple of decent types,like Tarka, and some semi reasonable, but the majority are blinkered idiots who have nothing better to do than sling shit at anyone who doesnt like or finds fault with their Ural.
I would like to point out the rude Ural folks who have posted on this thread represent an incrdeably small percentage of Ural owners, so to say a few bad apples represent the majority is grossly unfair.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:54 PM   #1250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspell68 View Post
I must agree, Bokad has kept pretty cool...
And a french waiter is always polite.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:44 PM   #1251
matman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Montague,

"Ural Cabal", now that is some funny shite, I don't care which side of the fence your on............

Great! Now I'm afraid I'm going to be kicked out of the fold for my crimes against Uraldum!
I have after all tried to treat my 650 like a motocross, pickup truck, trailer hauler, Crotch rocket, tour bike, etc...etc...
Finally found the limit of the crank.... It was 6 bags of deer feed and a good hard chug off the top or a berm.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:14 PM   #1252
Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by matman1972 View Post

Great! Now I'm afraid I'm going to be kicked out of the fold for my crimes against Uraldum!
I have after all tried to treat my 650 like a motocross, pickup truck, trailer hauler, Crotch rocket, tour bike, etc...etc...
Finally found the limit of the crank.... It was 6 bags of deer feed and a good hard chug off the top or a berm.
Howdy Matt,

You Sir are a great example of a true Uralista, the "Cabal" is proud of your antics in striving to set a good path to follow, ride on Sir, ride on.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #1253
matman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post
Howdy Matt,

You Sir are a great example of a true Uralista, the "Cabal" is proud of your antics in striving to set a good path to follow, ride on Sir, ride on.
Then with the blessing of the cabal, I go out into the world to fu#@ up my poor little ural once again....... As soon as my new crank and bearings arrive.....
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #1254
Paint shaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
...nothing worse than grabbing a handful of brake and the lever comes back to the bar without result.

It's worse during a race on the race track... Just sayin'...
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #1255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
What I am doing is honestly posting my experiences with this bike. I know that some don't like that and will blame anything other than the bike itself.
I really appreciate you posting your experiences. I always learn (or at least try to) from ALL expieriences, good or bad.


That being said, a thread titled "Why YOU should not buy a Ural" was probably not the best title to describe YOUR experiences. I understand SOME your troubles have been shared by other URal owners. BUt, I'll take a SWAG ( Scientific Wise A$$ Guess) and say most of the nastiness in this thread exists because you imply YOUR Ural experience is the norm.

From all that you have posted it appears you may have a lemon. I hope you are able to complete your trip safely and upon return to the US either get your rig sorted or sell it.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:20 PM   #1256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Yes, your brake failed.
Giving you the benefit of doubt that it wasn't operator error. then it had to be contaminated fluid, corrosion on the caliper, debris, or a bent brake mount. It didn't just happen without some cause at 9000km, it had nothing to do with Ural OC , improper dealer setup, it's not a "bad batch" issue.
It was either operator error (as in this operator erroneously believed the brake to have the capacity to support the bike under normal driving conditions and drove accordingly) or contaminants in the fluid caused premature boiling and failure. Either way, I'll flush the fluid and replace it with DOT 4 (factory gives you DOT 3) and drive in the future knowing that it is prone to overheating and so give it some mid hill cool down periods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
It has to be either lack of maintenance, or it was physically damaged, which is it?
Again, all maintenance has been done, on schedule, to the letter, as laid out in the Ural owners manual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
As you like to point out, there have been many threads on many forums about problems with Urals, and they have not become epic pissing matches like this one. Whats the common denominator? Have you ever considered that it could be your peripheral statements, and not your mechanical issues that have been the real issue with many?
Certainly some are upset with me personally and my choice of words rather than the substance of what I am saying. It's not like I'm the first to suffer this tar and feathering though. Some of the Uralistas have a long history of abusing and personally attacking those that don't agree with them. Reading the history of Ural posts in this forum clearly shows an aggressive pattern of behavior
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:00 PM   #1257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post
It was either operator error (as in this operator erroneously believed the brake to have the capacity to support the bike under normal driving conditions and drove accordingly) or contaminants in the fluid caused premature boiling and failure. Either way, I'll flush the fluid and replace it with DOT 4 (factory gives you DOT 3) and drive in the future knowing that it is prone to overheating and so give it some mid hill cool down periods.


Again, all maintenance has been done, on schedule, to the letter, as laid out in the Ural owners manual.



Certainly some are upset with me personally and my choice of words rather than the substance of what I am saying. It's not like I'm the first to suffer this tar and feathering though. Some of the Uralistas have a long history of abusing and personally attacking those that don't agree with them. Reading the history of Ural posts in this forum clearly shows an aggressive pattern of behavior
In your personal description in the first post of your ride thread says this:

"I write poorly and mostly for my own lossy memory. Some thoughts may be unrefined, blunt, offensive, or repetitious.
I'm known to whine, whinge, bitch, and complain. I'm may also be opinionated and prone to stereotyping."

"Encouragement, comments, and angry rants all welcome and appreciated."

And now you claim you are being tar and feathered, and suffering persecution. You are getting what you are due to your own self-proclaimed personality and posting traits. I have found throughout this tragic thread that your self assessment is spot on, hence the reaction of other posters.

Overall its a damn shame, you looked so happy when you got the crated Ural and were getting ready for a long and wonderful trip............oh well, continue on, if you keep riding your Ural for several more months I imagine this thread will grow to 5000 to 8000 posts, where as you say:"thoughts may be unrefined, blunt, offensive, or repetitious.
I'm known to whine, whinge, bitch, and complain. I'm may also be opinionated and prone to stereotyping."

Gee I wonder what the response to all that will be, ha! But as you also say,"Encouragement, comments, and angry rants all welcome and appreciated." Well your getting all that, I for one feel slighted that myself and others are not being appreciated!

Try not to bother with some long winded response, you WERE suppose to stop posting about 600 posts ago, yup, and I'm really trying to wean myself away from this thread, it's like a moth to a flame or how we all slow down to see a horrible wreck, it's hard but I will finally break free of this spectacle of tragedy in the next 8000 posts, heheh.

Motor on Bokad, it's looks like your getting the subtle hints on maint and riding style for what you have, never know, by the end of this trip, you may end up Bokad the Ural Pro, and lash out at others that talk bad about a Ural that took you thru so many miles and adventures in exotic lands. Could happen......
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:02 PM   #1258
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bokad View Post


Again, all maintenance has been done, on schedule, to the letter, as laid out in the Ural owners manual.



Certainly some are upset with me personally and my choice of words rather than the substance of what I am saying. It's not like I'm the first to suffer this tar and feathering though. Some of the Uralistas have a long history of abusing and personally attacking those that don't agree with them. Reading the history of Ural posts in this forum clearly shows an aggressive pattern of behavior
The manuals maintenance routine for any machine is the minimum, your particular usage and climate can require additional maintenance. For example If I do extensive snow riding in sloppy conditions, I will change the FD fluid more often, and closely monitor the transmission fluid. Being in tropical conditions, you should also be watching things more closely. The manual doesn't preclude personal judgment.

All internet forums have, lets just say "characters", I have strong opinions of Harley Davidson Sportsters based on my ownership experience, when I share my opinions I am mindful that I am only speaking for myself and refrain from inflammatory commentary,
If you don't want to catch fish, don't put a baited hook in the water.

Maybe I come across harsh sometimes, I do defiantly disagree with you on some points, I have found a few of your comments distasteful, and I would like to bitch slap you (JK ) for spending time in this pissing contest when your doing something I can only dream of doing, But if I saw you on the side of the road I would do what ever I could to help you, and I would share a beer with you.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #1259
GoThere@50
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Bluhduh He raised two points.

The OP made reference to his post being beneficial to those who may be potential Ural buyers. He also shared his observations on the Ural community or at least some in that community. I probably fit the profile of the type of reader he intended the post for. I've been following the development of Urals for about 4 years now and have researched owner experiences on this site and others such as S.S.. So, from the perspective of an interested outsider who has tried to complete due diligence, I offer my observations on this entire shit fest.

Bokad, while I think the title of your post was somewhat antagonistic as were some of the comments throughout, you presented a good argument based on motorcycles you actually owned and failures you experienced first hand. As an owner you have a right to voice your opinion. I would have backed you on that without the inclusion of other people's experiences though many of them on face value, do seem to support your main argument of lack of reliability. Did your personal experiences and mechanical failures convince me, as a potential buyer, that a Ural is a lost cause? No. My research led me to the conclusion that a Ural will require a significant amount of owner involvement. Your own comments led me to conclude that you simply are not that type of owner. That is not a derogatory statement towards you. I see it as a mismatch between owner and motorcycle.

After reading your comments about some in the Ural community I went back to review many of them, specifically those dealing with known issues and those proposing solutions to known problems. I have to admit that some of your observations and outright criticism may have merit, in my opinion anyway. Again, from the prospective of a potential buyer, if the motorcycle in question has known shortcomings, I'm going to look at the user groups to see how actual owners are dealing with them. More importantly, I'm going to look at the solutions people in these groups are coming up with. That is even more relevant with a company like Ural that isn't known for sweeping and expensive redesigns on components like bottom ends or final drives. What I found, at least from some in the group, was what you alluded to. Comments on it being a 70 year old design coupled with if that change was needed or even possible the factory would have done it. Sorry, those two comments together are a contradiction. If you believe that the end result of any vehicle manufacturer's production is based on perfect design you don't understand the role that external forces such as the EPA or internal forces such as cost points play on designs. Almost anything coming off the assembly line represents a compromise and can be improved. I have rolling testimony to that fact in my garage and I did the work myself.

Not everyone fit that mold. One member presented a well documented discussion on shortening the flame front with dual spark plugs. Another suggested a slight increase in compression. Yet, more often than not, these suggestions were met with comments such as you can't do that, you'll blow the crank. Fine, lets run with that. Who's crank blew and what modifications contributed to it? Can this owner clean up the removed crank, lay it on a paper towel and submit photographs of it so others can get a look at the actual failure point? Could another member supply or draw a .dwg file of the stock crank? This type of effort leads to workable solutions. That is what I found lacking in the Ural post I reviewed. It exist in other on-line communities dealing with other motorcycles and they have the results to show for their effort. If those type of solutions are being offered in the Ural community please supply a link in your post. I could very well have missed them. I'm aware of what Raceway Services is doing. I've also seen their efforts derided by some in Ural based postings. So, again, as a potential buyer, this concerns me more than the specific mechanical failures experienced by bokad. Yet, he brought this issue up as well. I just expounded on it.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:25 PM   #1260
matman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoThere@50 View Post
The OP made reference to his post being beneficial to those who may be potential Ural buyers. He also shared his observations on the Ural community or at least some in that community. I probably fit the profile of the type of reader he intended the post for. I've been following the development of Urals for about 4 years now and have researched owner experiences on this site and others such as S.S.. So, from the perspective of an interested outsider who has tried to complete due diligence, I offer my observations on this entire shit fest.

Bokad, while I think the title of your post was somewhat antagonistic as were some of the comments throughout, you presented a good argument based on motorcycles you actually owned and failures you experienced first hand. As an owner you have a right to voice your opinion. I would have backed you on that without the inclusion of other people's experiences though many of them on face value, do seem to support your main argument of lack of reliability. Did your personal experiences and mechanical failures convince me, as a potential buyer, that a Ural is a lost cause? No. My research led me to the conclusion that a Ural will require a significant amount of owner involvement. Your own comments led me to conclude that you simply are not that type of owner. That is not a derogatory statement towards you. I see it as a mismatch between owner and motorcycle.

After reading your comments about some in the Ural community I went back to review many of them, specifically those dealing with known issues and those proposing solutions to known problems. I have to admit that some of your observations and outright criticism may have merit, in my opinion anyway. Again, from the prospective of a potential buyer, if the motorcycle in question has known shortcomings, I'm going to look at the user groups to see how actual owners are dealing with them. More importantly, I'm going to look at the solutions people in these groups are coming up with. That is even more relevant with a company like Ural that isn't known for sweeping and expensive redesigns on components like bottom ends or final drives. What I found, at least from some in the group, was what you alluded to. Comments on it being a 70 year old design coupled with if that change was needed or even possible the factory would have done it. Sorry, those two comments together are a contradiction. If you believe that the end result of any vehicle manufacturer's production is based on perfect design you don't understand the role that external forces such as the EPA or internal forces such as cost points play on designs. Almost anything coming off the assembly line represents a compromise and can be improved. I have rolling testimony to that fact in my garage and I did the work myself.

Not everyone fit that mold. One member presented a well documented discussion on shortening the flame front with dual spark plugs. Another suggested a slight increase in compression. Yet, more often than not, these suggestions were met with comments such as you can't do that, you'll blow the crank. Fine, lets run with that. Who's crank blew and what modifications contributed to it? Can this owner clean up the removed crank, lay it on a paper towel and submit photographs of it so others can get a look at the actual failure point? Could another member supply or draw a .dwg file of the stock crank? This type of effort leads to workable solutions. That is what I found lacking in the Ural post I reviewed. It exist in other on-line communities dealing with other motorcycles and they have the results to show for their effort. If those type of solutions are being offered in the Ural community please supply a link in your post. I could very well have missed them. I'm aware of what Raceway Services is doing. I've also seen their efforts derided by some in Ural based postings. So, again, as a potential buyer, this concerns me more than the specific mechanical failures experienced by bokad. Yet, he brought this issue up as well. I just expounded on it.
If you look for a short period of time at any rider group for a given manufacture of bike you will also find many who just take the bike as-is.. There are many of us who are intimately involved with the internal workings of the ural engine/ drivetrain who communicate with each other about modifications openly. The most obvious being Cob. Did you know many of the modifications to the ural in the past several years came from this experimentation and communication? Don't think the entire community of ural riders takes the status quo of the bike for granted. Search a little deeper into such topics as Cob's clutch disks, the origin of the Denso mount, etc..
I myself like my 650, weak crank and all, although I am pissed at it at the moment.
I have an almost unlimited supply of spare parts to fart around with, everything is cheap if you know where to look, and teardown and rebuild of the motor to test something new is a very short process, although my own modifications to my bike are simply slight tweaks to the existing design to fine tune it (if it can be fine tuned) and take out weak points such as manufacture's bearings, crappy electronics, etc...
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