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Old 06-16-2012, 05:28 AM   #16
jules083
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That really sounds like a lot of damage considering what happened.

Can a starter really make enough torque to bend a rod?

I had my girlfriend's Ninja 250 fill a cylinder with gas, I just hit the start button not knowing and nothing happened. Pulled the plug, shot the gas out, changed oil, and on her way again.

How many of us have dropped dirt bikes for way longer time, with harder falls, and never had a problem? I know I've done it. I've seen them lay on their sides for over a minute before someone picks them up, kick it through a few times and start it.
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:32 AM   #17
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Some starters can. A buddy hydrolocked his 1150gs in one of our stream crossings. Attempted to start the bike and stripped 18 teeth off his flywheel plus some internal damage to the engine. If the cylinders are completely filled, so the engine can't move, it is not near as likely.

If the engine only has some fluid in the cylinder and the pistons are in a stroke position that allows a partial revolution the damage can be greater.

You can un hydrolock an engine by putting the bike in gear and pushing it backwards for 2 rev of the engine. It will go through the exhaust stroke before coming back to the compression stroke. Beware though you run the risk of timing slippage. The engine crank will be pulling the cam chain from the side with slack in it.
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itsatdm screwed with this post 09-09-2012 at 08:42 AM
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jules083 View Post

Can a starter really make enough torque to bend a rod?
It depends how much fluid is in the chamber.
If it was enough that it tried to stop the piston when the con rod was at right angles to the crank throw then maybe not.
The danger is when it is just enough fluid that the piston can come close to but not go over top dead centre.

In the ADV spirit,when you drop your bike the priority is to leave it lying there and get a picture.
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
... Can a starter really make enough torque to bend a rod?...
Hard to say if it's just the starter or the other cylinders firing. My father bent a rod on a Chev V8. Parked in a massive rainstorm with no hood (lost due to moose, but that's another story). He went to start it and it went BANG. Would not turn over at all after that. The theory was that it let water in through the air-filter cap bolt. He sent me back to the hotel to and drove there to pick me up in a few hours.

Yeah, same engine. He pulled the plugs, hand-cranked the engine backwards until it stopped, and then hit the starter until it went bang. He repeated this over and over, noting that the engine made it a wee bit farther each attempt. Eventually, it turned all the way over, making a horrible racket in the process. He put the plugs back in and fired it up. We drove from Alberta back home to BC with it like that. The noise died down fairly quickly and after that it ran fine, other than low compression on one cylinder. Eventually, he pulled it apart and found one connecting rod bent like an 'S' with one side machined off. So, yes, starters can actually generate a lot of force and connecting rods can bend.

As for the original post... a hydro-locked cylinder could shock the engine enough to make it skip on the timing chain, if it was already worn enough. Thus, plausible diagnosis... and very bad luck.

David...

P.S. Yes, I have a lot of respect for my late father's mechanical abilities.

FixerDave screwed with this post 06-16-2012 at 06:21 PM Reason: can't help myself
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #20
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The bike has been safely stashed for a while now. fuel tank has still quite some fuel in it. i've heard that its better to keep it that way to keep rust out. I've moved the cilinders halfway and poured some oil in em for the same reason. I'll start thoroughly cleaning all that I can reach (head cover and valves are off) and trying to asses the damage.

parts I know I'll need to replace:
- intake valves
- outlet valves
- cam chain
- piston rings (right piston can be moved noticeably by hand)
- cam chain tensioner
- ...

I'll start adding pictures as cleaning comes along and probably start asking for shallow assessment by then.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by tommyvdv View Post
The bike has been safely stashed for a while now. fuel tank has still quite some fuel in it. .
Make sure to put blue Stabil (marine fuel stabalizer) in the tank to prevent the gas from going bad
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:48 PM   #22
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Make sure to put blue Stabil (marine fuel stabalizer) in the tank to prevent the gas from going bad
thanks for the heads up. I'll try to find some.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:54 AM   #23
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drained it instead. will store it in the house in a nice dry spot once the gas fumes wear off. should I keep it airtight or open it up so it can breathe? maybe stuff some anti-small-vermin cloth in the opening?
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:55 PM   #24
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piston rings (right piston can be moved noticeably by hand)
If thats the case then the piston is toast too, and/or the cylinder is not round anymore.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:35 AM   #25
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Put oil in the tank and roll the tank around to get oil on EVERY surface or you will just go back to find a rusty tank.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:58 PM   #26
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If thats the case then the piston is toast too, and/or the cylinder is not round anymore.
any way to check this and be sure?
If that's the case, the cost of the parts is going to exceed a new engine by a lot.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by gunnabuild1 View Post
Put oil in the tank and roll the tank around to get oil on EVERY surface or you will just go back to find a rusty tank.
regular engine oil?
Probably have to remember to clean it out before using it again?
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:42 AM   #28
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Pretty much whatever you got,remember to turn it every now and then.A quick swish with petrol or metho or whatever should get the worst of it out.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:36 AM   #29
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it didnt. It got revved in a way you would when you make a turn..
I don't really get that. Revving while you're making a turn?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:49 AM   #30
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I don't really get that. Revving while you're making a turn?
keeping the engine at a slightly higher idle to allow it to cope with the extra resistance of turning sharply and the occasional bump in the road. slightly higher idle. in this example the bike was idling when it reached its tipping point. she rolled off the gas once she started the losing battle against gravity and physics.
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