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Old 06-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #16
Mikef5000
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It would be absolutely impossible for a single bike to do everything I need perfectly. A 2 up rtw capable adventure tourer is going to be bulky. A lightweight single track capable dual sport is going to get blown around on the open road and have limited load capacities. Etc.

I would love to see a wr450r though. It wouldn't be 2-up touring capable, but I think it could do just about everything else!
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:21 PM   #17
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I feel like the F800GS and the Tiger800xc are pretty damn close to what I most want in an adventure bike.

Sure they could weigh less, maybe the BMW be a less idiosyncratic, but they're definitely in the ball park as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:53 PM   #18
RichardU
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I have 2,000 miles on my Tiger 800 XC. For me it is the most perfect bike currently made.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:20 PM   #19
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Here you go.
KLR 650, 705 motor. Will take you everywhere you want to go.
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:07 AM   #20
Ham OP
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Ironically I do think the KLR is pretty close in a lot of respects. I do believe that occassionally the posts forget the origins. That is to say to approach things a bit differently. The stats and the studies show that very seldom does the average individual wind out all that power, and that torque is most wanted when you are tooling around on these rigs.

I think a lot of these bikes are top heavy because they are not thought out initially...like keeping the bulk of the fuel low. Try to think how the suspension could be attached to the wheel to allow fair travel without having the bike seat next to heaven...or to ask how much suspension travel do you really need if you aren't jumping ridges.

Again the bean counter thing raise its head which I think is a hollow excuse. How can you know how many people would buy one of these until you execute the plan very well. Witness the F650 series...no one foresaw the tremendous number of sales for those bikes.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:24 AM   #21
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http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644390

Here ya' go.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:20 AM   #22
vicster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobudo28 View Post
A 650 Wee that is much lighter with better suspension and more electrical power. Great engine looking for a better, and lighter, home.

I've owned many bikes and I regret selling the Wee. Riding a DR650 now that is quite capable but lacks the smoothness and power of a twin.
I've not ridden a Wee, so I will certainly take your word as to its overall goodness. But (you knew one was coming, right?), the DR IMHO still has some advantages as an Adventure bike.
It's air cooled, so no thermostat, radiator, hoses, seals, or water pump concerns.
It's not fuel injected, so no injector or fuel pump worrys.
The DR can be bump started in the event of a dead battery.
In the very unlikely event you need to adjust valves while in East Armpit, Wherever, the DR doesn't need shims.
The DR gets similar fuel mileage to the Wee, and the aftermarket has huge tanks available.
At 225#+ and packing about 100# of crap for extended camping trips, I agree more DR power would be nice. Maybe the PC 780 kit would handle this.
The DR could stand to have more electrical output, but there are some aftermarket improvements available. I run a 35 watt HID and that allows me to safely run my GPS and Gerbings heated jacket.
Unlike the 800s, no way in hell do I see a DR functioning as 2 up Adventure bike.
The only real disadvantage I find with the DR, and it may just be me and the way I have mine set up, is that this tall, light bike with a lot of side surface gets blown around by side winds very easily.

As an aside, I've found my DR's smoothness to be noticeably affected by the state of the carburetor tuning.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:19 PM   #23
rotten
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Lets throw some gas in the fire...



Low weight, good power, steel frame, air cooled, easy to work on, no dohicky, hell... why not. Honestly I'd settle for a KTM super enduro to me possible the best adventure bike made as soon as I can afford one .
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #24
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicster View Post
I've not ridden a Wee, so I will certainly take your word as to its overall goodness. But (you knew one was coming, right?), the DR IMHO still has some advantages as an Adventure bike.
It's air cooled, so no thermostat, radiator, hoses, seals, or water pump concerns.
It's not fuel injected, so no injector or fuel pump worrys.
The DR can be bump started in the event of a dead battery.
In the very unlikely event you need to adjust valves while in East Armpit, Wherever, the DR doesn't need shims.
The DR gets similar fuel mileage to the Wee, and the aftermarket has huge tanks available.
At 225#+ and packing about 100# of crap for extended camping trips, I agree more DR power would be nice. Maybe the PC 780 kit would handle this.
The DR could stand to have more electrical output, but there are some aftermarket improvements available. I run a 35 watt HID and that allows me to safely run my GPS and Gerbings heated jacket.
Unlike the 800s, no way in hell do I see a DR functioning as 2 up Adventure bike.
The only real disadvantage I find with the DR, and it may just be me and the way I have mine set up, is that this tall, light bike with a lot of side surface gets blown around by side winds very easily.

As an aside, I've found my DR's smoothness to be noticeably affected by the state of the carburetor tuning.
See, I'm just the opposite. I want fuel injection and water cooling. I've read over and over how un-reliable these systems are, but I've never had a waterpump issue, or an issue with fuel injection. I've had more issues with aircooled bikes no being able to run after they got too hot in stop and go traffic.

In the unlikely event you need to adjust shim type valves, just grind the shim down with a piece of sand paper. I honestly do it all the time.
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:02 PM   #25
Ham OP
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Its got to be bone simple. And it should be if they would start ground up. So far other than the idividual attempts as have been indicated no one has done that.

I think the companies are disingenuous. The seats the put our are just plain fundamentally flawed.

It would take planning from the get go to get fuel down low, which could be combined with fuel up top.

Or how about a wind shield that helps someone over 5'8 and 150 lbs.

Is a steel frame the way or should it be aluminum or titanium to help lighten the load.

An electrical system that takes advantage of the best small lithium batteries because you use LEDs.

There is a lot of room for innovation here.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:08 PM   #26
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham View Post
Its got to be bone simple. And it should be if they would start ground up. So far other than the idividual attempts as have been indicated no one has done that.

I think the companies are disingenuous. The seats the put our are just plain fundamentally flawed.

It would take planning from the get go to get fuel down low, which could be combined with fuel up top.

Or how about a wind shield that helps someone over 5'8 and 150 lbs.

Is a steel frame the way or should it be aluminum or titanium to help lighten the load.

An electrical system that takes advantage of the best small lithium batteries because you use LEDs.

There is a lot of room for innovation here.
If it's got to be "bone simple" then you need a steel frame so anyone with a stick welder can fix it when it cracks. And non of those fancy lithium batteries, you'll never find replacements in the middle of mongolia.

BMW had a mechanical voltage regulators on their older bikes, not the most efficient, but bone simple and repairable in the field.

Not much room for innovation, cause that innovation won't have made it to the 3rd world countries where you'll be riding and fixing it.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:28 PM   #27
Ham OP
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I'd like to start with the US and work from there. Given present technology it should start requiring a heck of a lot less wattage.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:49 PM   #28
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I'm telling you...this is where we start.
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:52 AM   #29
vicster
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Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
See, I'm just the opposite. I want fuel injection and water cooling. I've read over and over how un-reliable these systems are, but I've never had a waterpump issue, or an issue with fuel injection. I've had more issues with aircooled bikes no being able to run after they got too hot in stop and go traffic.

In the unlikely event you need to adjust shim type valves, just grind the shim down with a piece of sand paper. I honestly do it all the time.
You're right, you are the opposite! I've had a water pump seal go (Vulcan 1500), a water pump housing punctured (KLX650), thermostats malfunction, etc. My Triumph's on its 3rd (4th?) EFI map.
I've never had an issue with an air cooled motor overheating.
KISS

PS How do you sand a shim thicker? :-)

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Old 06-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #30
vicster
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Originally Posted by rotten View Post
Lets throw some gas in the fire...



Low weight, good power, steel frame, air cooled, easy to work on, no dohicky, hell... why not. Honestly I'd settle for a KTM super enduro to me possible the best adventure bike made as soon as I can afford one .
I would buy that. I honestly think Ducati is missing the boat by not making something similar with the 1100 motor.
I came thiiiis close to buying a Super Enduro a couple years back. Relatively poor fuel mileage, doubts about sub frame strength, and pumps maintenance kept my wallet in my pocket. Still bet the things are a blast though.
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