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Old 02-12-2015, 10:16 AM   #1
mikejohn OP
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converting to fuel injection

I have a 1998 Triumph Tiger that I would like to convert to fuel injection. Has anybody on here done this?
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:05 PM   #2
tntmo
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I can understand your desire to convert to FI, but I'd think the expense would outweigh the advantage?

I'd think it would make more sense to buy a couple year newer Tiger that came with FI. I have a 2005 and am currently having fueling issues with it....wishing it had carbs!!
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:21 PM   #3
banjaxxed
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Maybe look at adapting the FI from its brethren of the same era like the Sprint ST which was injected from '98 with the 955i


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Old 02-13-2015, 10:33 AM   #4
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An exercise in creative application

I'm looking at this myself to design and market a kit to convert carbs to EFI in a cost effective manner.

My biggest cost problem (its yours too btw) is the ECU (engine control unit) applicability/availability, but as a engineer/hardware freak, this is fun for me, so here goes:

ECU - the MicroSquirt unit will work as it can be triggered from a coil, tuned, and is open source programming with support groups
Throttle Bodies - carbs can be adapted with some creative machining of adapters, clamps, fittings - so the fuel injector will nest in the slide cavity, be retained & electrically and fluidly connected
TPS - will have to be adapted to your carbs
IAT - will have to be adapted to your airbox
MAP - will have to be adapted to your intake (after the throttle butterfly)
Engine temp - proper sensor adapted to the OEM location, or added
Lambda sensor - wideband, si'l vous plait
Rollover switch - may already have one. no? add it!
Injectors - hmmm, easy to calc flow rate and source use care
fuel pump - Bosch makes a good one
fuel pressure regulator - many available
fuel return - creative design within tank petcock will work
various, sundry and diverse stuff - fittings, elec connectors(!), fuel line (make sure impervious to E85), clamps/brackets, fasteners
wiring - don't skimp here, all ends should be terminated and waterproof

...and patience, er wait, i meant beer, lots and lots of beer, ditto!

The benefits however, are infinite tuneability (and then never again), no sensitivity to changes in season, or altitude, the bike can sit for more than a year and still fire right up whereas your carbs will need to be cleaned, and then tuned, then fresh gas (and i don't mean eating at McDonalds either).

All kidding aside, I hope this helps! Feel free to pm me if you want to proceed.

Ciao'
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:51 PM   #5
Wildebeest90210
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I've used microsquirt on my KTM 690 mutant with an innovate box on the wideband ECU. All up and running now but without a cam sensor anything under 2K rpm is difficult to control. Happy to share any info I can, just about to do some tuning runs with laptop in a backpack when the weather picks up.

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Old 02-14-2015, 10:12 AM   #6
Roadracer_Al
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Check these guys out: they have some interesting kits, although I'm not sure if they would have anything for 120 crank triple.

http://www.ecotrons.com/
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:14 AM   #7
jays100
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In my opine, any of the ECU's would work provided there was enough current to drive the 3 injectors simultaneously in a "bank" injection. Only the most expensive auto ECU's have sequential injection and that has proven to produce only marginal gains...in emissions and little/nothing in performance.

So yes, the ecotrons unit may work
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:44 PM   #8
ben2go
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http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...uirt-c-35.html and http://www.megasquirt.info/megatune.htm
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:50 AM   #9
TheCheesus
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I've looked into fuel injecting different bikes I've owned for ages.

You are missing a whole lot of things in your list of requirements. Crank and cam position sensor are necessary. That would defeat the fuel economy gains of going to fuel injection in the first place. So if you want multi port, you have to have a cam position sensor as well. You are going to be severely stressing injectors when you are running them at 80-90% duty cycle. You have to do this because you will have a crap idle if you have oversized injectors that can deliver enough fuel at 12k RPM, and stressed injectors high in the rev range if you have small injectors that will make it idle correctly.

Really, you can't adapt carbs to throttle bodies. It "can" be done, but anything more than a single cylinder, maybe an inline twin, just becomes a huge nightmare. where is your TPS pickup shaft going to be? When there are tons of fuel injected triples around, why wouldn't you just go buy throttle bodies from another triple. Not to mention the airflow requirements have changed since you have precise control over the fuel delivery now.

Machining adapters to fit injectors to the throttle bodies will be cost prohibitive. Slapping them in with JB weld will be unreliable.

MAF is a 10x better solution. Small diameter MAF's are easily available.

Throttle bodies would come with injectors built in.

Fuel pump - graft a different tank. Are you going to hack up your tank and weld in a plate?

FPR - get a tank with an in-tank pump and an in-tank pressure regulator. Or FPR on the end of your fuel rail.

If you are using an external fuel pump, Suzuki LTR450 had one didn't it? Then you are looking at a rail, maybe a surge tank for pickup and return, + external regulator on your rail.

If you are so blase about wiring, you may want to go look at a few build threads where people have converted to FI. Literally hundreds of wires to keep track of. You need to have a VERY strong understanding of electrical engineering to take on a task like this.

I don't mean to be harsh about it, but I see posts about FI all the time. there's a reason there isn't a kit out there, it's because it is, in reality:

1) Cost prohibitive. Microsquirt alone is $400+
2) Difficult to install
3) Extremely difficult to tune
4) Carbs work great when properly tuned and stored and cleaned

You could spend 1/25 the effort and have a perfect reliable set of carbs. Or spend 25x the effort and have a logistical nightmare and be $1000 in the hole.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCheesus View Post
Literally hundreds of wires to keep track of.
That's a bit of an overstatement. Dozens of wires, yes.

I think MicroSquirt is going for about $560 with the matching plug and some sensors.

Otherwise, I agree with your statement.

The thing I think you *under*stated is the difficulty of building the fuel map and ignition maps. Unless you can find someone who has done this before you, and allows you to copy their work, you're on the hook for doing it yourself. The ignition map could theoretically be manually copied out of the OEM CDI box using variable inputs and an oscilloscope. Hours of fun.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:37 AM   #11
ben2go
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Here's a solution for a remote throttle position sensor.1999 Suzuki Hayabusa used and external fuel pump from my understanding. My GS5 FI plan was pretty straight forward and not as complicated as thecheses describes and it was a closed loop system using microsquirt.

http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/index...howtopic=57207

http://www.ecotrons.com/products/sma...injection_kit/

http://users.hal-pc.org/~dhutch/
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:55 PM   #12
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There are several options for external fuel pumps.
The Mid 80's cars from VW and Honda used external Bosch pumps that put out plenty of pressure for Motorcycle (about 3bar).
Even Cagiva used them on the Gran Canyon model and others. Most of the automotive parts stores have all of the other items to ensure clean delivery to the injectors.
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:03 PM   #13
k-moe
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The conversion is easy. First find a wrecked bike with a working FI engine....
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:58 PM   #14
ben2go
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dograt View Post
There are several options for external fuel pumps.
The Mid 80's cars from VW and Honda used external Bosch pumps that put out plenty of pressure for Motorcycle (about 3bar).
Even Cagiva used them on the Gran Canyon model and others. Most of the automotive parts stores have all of the other items to ensure clean delivery to the injectors.
True but they can pull as much as 30 amps/360watts of power.Most motorcycles don't have that kind of power reserve.A motorcycle spec pump usually pulls less than 5 amps/60watts.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:55 AM   #15
Roadracer_Al
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Inmate Sailah has successfully used a MC submerged fuel pump in an aluminum surge tank that gravity feeds from the main tank.
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