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Old 06-11-2012, 06:03 PM   #46
farmerstu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten_fiver View Post
How about this: maybe that technique is something that is learned naturally after many years of riding bikes, so breaking down the technique into words and telling people to consciously do it doesn't make sense to those who already do it instinctively.
can you easily, without pushing the your safety, weave the white lines on the center of a deserted hiway at 60 m.p.h.without missing any, and do it indefinelty? if not you really don't know how to countersteer. if you can then i guess instinct is working for you,
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
can you easily, without pushing the your safety, weave the white lines on the center of a deserted hiway at 60 m.p.h.without missing any, and do it indefinelty? if not you really don't know how to countersteer. if you can then i guess instinct is working for you,
ok, one more time. Yes, I counter steer. No, I don't think about doing it. But I can't say I've ever tried weaving highway lines.

Do this for a test. Go outside and watch neighborhood kids race around on their bicycles. Pay close attention and notice their use of counter steering, weighting pegs according to terrain, and weight distribution. Now, do you think somebody sat them down and explained how to do that, or did they figure out that stuff by getting out and figuring out what works best?
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
WTF...
What do you think the purpose of the siren is! To assure the the injured inside that he/she is heading towards a hospital?

I'm not going to say loud pipes save lives cause I think if you're relying on your pipes to save your life you should be walking but....
If you think no motorist has ever heard you before they saw you, you either don't pay enough attention to your surroundings, you just started riding tonight, your sickle is electric, you're in denial or you are just plain lying to yourself.

(and by the way, I hate loud pipes on HD's or any bike. In fact I find the most annoying ones on any bikes that revs to above say 14,000 or so...)
Dude... really? I don't even... wow.


What I said, in essence, is that lights and a noisemaker (i.e. a bigger horn), are a more effective means of notifying those around you that you are there, then having a loud exhaust would.

I have two strips of running lights on the back of my wing, and some pretty loud horns.

I think you took it that I was supporting loud pipes, when really, I don't. Don't get me wrong, nothing gives me goosebumps quite like a drag pipe sportster ripping down the track, or a CBX at full throttle, but it's not something I can stand the idea of having to deal with every time I swing my leg over the bike.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:50 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ten_fiver View Post
Here's one of my pet peeve myths

1. You need a dual-sport if you are ever going to ride on a dirt/gravel road.
I guess you could ride any bike on a dirt road, but you can't ride on trails unless you have knobbies and a 21 inch front wheel.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:07 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
I think "where you look is where you go" is a myth. Sure, it happens to a lot of people, but there isn't some inherent physical reason it has to be that way. You can train yourself not to turn even if you look somewhere else. In fact, I think it is really dangerous to always try looking where you want to go. You want to constantly be scanning, left, right, near, far, mirrors, back and forth, etc. including the road right in front of you and then further out and back and forth.
Don't confuse "where you look" with paying attention. Somehow I got fixated on the white line in a curve once, and it took a lot of guts (Imho) to turn my head and look through the turn. That was a wake up call for me.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:31 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ten_fiver View Post
ok, one more time. Yes, I counter steer. No, I don't think about doing it. But I can't say I've ever tried weaving highway lines.

Do this for a test. Go outside and watch neighborhood kids race around on their bicycles. Pay close attention and notice their use of counter steering, weighting pegs according to terrain, and weight distribution. Now, do you think somebody sat them down and explained how to do that, or did they figure out that stuff by getting out and figuring out what works best?
I haven't seen neighborhood kids racing around on bicycles in a long time.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:15 AM   #52
David R
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Laugh Countersteer

I read about it before. I understood how it works. I have been riding for 40 years.

I "lean" into corners. There comes a point when leaning does not make the bike turn any more.

AFTER reading about it here, I tried to force the bike to turn sharper or deeper or what ever.

IT WORKS. and I learned it here.

Riding in the Adirondacks I came upon a decreasing radius turn I cranked on the bars and pulled the bike down into the turn. I stayed in my lane and exited with throttle and my butt stuck to the seat (pucker stuck) This was all done in an instant. If I had not read about it here and practiced, I would have run that turn wide and who knows what.

Not a myth. Sure its over discussed, but what the heck.

Now for your myth. Believe everything you read on the internet.

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Old 06-12-2012, 08:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by orangebear View Post
the other one i now / got told is

you have to read loads of books called "how to ride motorbikes" and spend weeks working out what counter steering is / does. before you can go near or even ride a bike.


i was riding my bike for about 4years after my big bike test before i heard the word counter steering. that is 100% true.

Stop some kid cranking ass down the street on his bicycle and ask them if they know what countersteering is...

I had no idea either after riding for about 10 years, trials riding, flat tracking, and harescrambling along with lots of off road goofing around. Funny as heck, but it was bicycles that did it. My brother said when rolling along at about 10 mph you can not turn left to go left or right to go right. Of course we had to try it and, darn, he was right (or left or something). You just couldn't do it. Then of course that led to more dicking around on the motorcycles to find it was true there too. Seemed we didn't have to know all about it to actually do it though.
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:18 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
I think "where you look is where you go" is a myth. Sure, it happens to a lot of people, but there isn't some inherent physical reason it has to be that way. You can train yourself not to turn even if you look somewhere else. In fact, I think it is really dangerous to always try looking where you want to go. You want to constantly be scanning, left, right, near, far, mirrors, back and forth, etc. including the road right in front of you and then further out and back and forth.

Sorry to say it, but that has been pretty much been proven as Reality. You do not realize it, but if you look down the road where you want to go you will discover it happens. You look about 6" to the right of a tar spot out in front of you and you will go 6" from that tar spot. Riding trails you HAVE to look ahead where you WANT to go when riding in rutty or rough conditions. The key as to how far you are looking ahead is dependent on how fast you are going. You may be scanning and picking five feet ahead in a trials section or you may be scannng fifty feet ahead when at speed on a harescrambles or motocross course. In one race I had to look for big mud clods coming into a corner immediately up hill from there. I had to bank the front wheel off a big clod to aim the bike up hill full tilt in third otherwise I'd have to spin and scream the engine up in first. I had to pick my spot about 10 yards ahead of me and hope I was good to go. Same thing applies when I'm going down the road on the bike, but I may be looking thirty yards ahead and believe me when I say you WANT to be good at picking a line in Amish country on a Saturday/Sunday go to meeting/church weekend. Lots of road apple chicanes out there.

Whether you realize it or not you are picking a path as you scan, you are making predictions and executing your choices all the time. The problem is when big enough obstacle, like a big pothole or chunk of something appears some people focus on the obstacle rather than where they want to go. They end up hitting the obstacle. The thing you are missing is that you usually have wide berth as to where you can go on a road. When off road or in some road conditions, you may only have a narrow gap to hit - the top ridge with deep ruts on either side. or a gap between two rocks. Same thing may happen on a debris riddled street - or the previously mentioned ride through Amish country.

Try weaving the dotted yellow line, You are actually looking several gaps ahead and working a rythym. Try riding the gap between double lines. You have to look way ahead, but you will stay nearly centered. It's looking where you want to go, but far enough ahead for the speed. You ARE going where you looked - and picked.

The saying is "You will go where you look", not "Stare intently at one spot". You don't have to look long, you just have to look and pick... and it is very true.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

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Old 06-12-2012, 09:21 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
Dakez has it right....not that h'e's always right! But I must say, most of the time. I grew up riding before the craze/instruction, etc. I actually pull the bars in the opposite direction I want to go.....just the way I learned. I get the push thing, but my brain is just wired the other way. I like it, and see no reason to change!

If you conciously think about it often enough you will find you probably do a variety of inputs when you steer. I find I often lead with a slight body movement and continue with both arms working, no actual "push" or "pull", but both working. Weight shift at times, sometimes a quick tilt of my head before turning in, a bit of it all, no one thing. It all has gotten so automatic I don't really find any one thing to pick.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

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95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:25 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by AZbiker View Post
Never had a problem getting parts for my Sportster. The Big 4 dealers are definitely a step down, however.
Wouldn't be a problem for the big four if they only made three engines and kept the same basic layout year after year after year. Thing is they sell a lot more bike designs and models and can no more stock everthing than even a Harley dealer.

I had to order turn signals at a Harley shop... granted they were Buell signals, but that dealer was a real Buell dealer. So I guess it even happens to them too.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:29 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by willis 2000 View Post
Don't use the front brake came from another era, the 60"s, I think, when using the front brake, if you had one, would put ya down. Disc brakes changed riding overnight.

I NEVER YET MET A DRUM BRAKE THAT WOULD "PUT YOU DOWN". HELL, THEY WERE LUCKY TO SLIGHTLY RETARD FORWARD MOVEMENT!

I think it was pure ignorance. People who somehow crashed a bicycle that started it all. That or they grabbed a brake in grass or gravel when slightly leaned over. Not even a dirt bike could pitch you over the bars with those drums.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:30 AM   #58
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This is fun.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:42 AM   #59
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten_fiver View Post
Here's one of my pet peeve myths

1. You need a dual-sport if you are ever going to ride on a dirt/gravel road.

True, it is a myth, much like you don't really need to have a dual sportish type tire tread, but...

If you really want to get a bit nuts and have fun riding dirt/gravel roads you certainly can do it very well on a dual sport bike. I thought about that Saturday while flying down a fairly crappy gravel road with the bike weaving and bobbing about a bit, I looked down and I was doing a shade over 50, no problems mate. And the tires don't hurt either as my buddy on his street shod DRz SM is learning. He's going Distanzia next set.

But hey, there are still riders who won't touch the front brake and riders who think full working knowledge of countersteering are necessary things too.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:47 AM   #60
markk53
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
"The newest BMW 1200 GS is an adventure bike"


&ampnbsp
&ampnbsp


Now we have a new myth - "You can go anywhere easily on a big adventure bike".

If pushing big ass bikes up muddy ruted trails and ducking when the back tire starts slinging shit at you is fun I guess I'll pass on it. I'll just stick to being "sad" on my "little" 650 single that could probably do better if it was a 250-400 single.

No wonder that guy is so damn skinny, pushing those things around.

I also think this kind of points out the reality of "go where you look".
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550

markk53 screwed with this post 06-12-2012 at 09:53 AM
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