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Old 07-26-2005, 04:01 PM   #91
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Which AFR is right

This is the first page of 70 on carburetion

Having given up on economy as a goal I shall concentrate on drivability and power.

That mid-range hit mentioned in an earlier post must be were the maximum volumetric efficiency VE and the correct AFR meet.... ie Maximum Torque.

To be continued...

[img][/img]
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Old 07-28-2005, 03:56 PM   #92
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For those who wish to know my final settings.... With out the explanations

Pilot #38
Needle FP #5 clip

1 turn out ( I like a mean lean clean idle. !.5 to 1.75 will also work) AFR= 13.5

Mains......160, 165 AFR= 11.8- 12.2 @ WOT. Not ideal but necessary to avoid slight lean area in 5000 - 7000 rpm

Float 2.1mm

Bike is very smooth to drive in traffic (by LC8 standards)

any Improvements will come much slower now

To be continued.....
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Old 07-28-2005, 04:49 PM   #93
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Did you try the 155/160 #4 (or#5) 45 combo?
Seemed like you got better AFR's all around before with that and a #42 .5 out pilot?

Though I was always under the impression that full throttle AFR was about ideal at 12.2:1?

I'd love to hear the long version even if nobody else does!

Thanks in advance!

wsmc99 screwed with this post 07-28-2005 at 07:33 PM
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:26 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmc99
Did you try the 155/160 #4 (or#5) 45 combo?
Seemed like you got better AFR's all around before with that and a #42 .5 out pilot?

Though I was always under the impression that full throttle AFR was about ideal at 12.2:1?

I'd love to hear the long version even if nobody else does!

Thanks in advance!
I did ... #45 is a total flood..... on #4 clip.......... really bad, and still to lean @ 5000-6000rpm with 155 & 160

I will explain later no time today This new combo is spot on close.
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Old 07-29-2005, 09:13 AM   #95
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2nd day.... My ride to work is a 4pm 20km traffic trip cutting across Sydney not really with or against traffic. Today I spent a lot of time lite throttle 3000-4000 rpm. No hunting, no surging, just perfect throttle control.

The #38 pilot @ 1 turn ..... the only way to go better would be to set the Co. as per what KTMax said.

By raising the needle you rich-en the 1/8 throttle range. That's why I use the #38
Any bigger will flood it.

The #38 will only work well with the #5 clip position on the needle.

#38's are only available through Factory Pro. They use them in R6's I think!... Yam Something.....no Kawa.... buggered if I know.

You need to use the #5th to maintain near perfect AFR's right through the rev range approaching WOT.

To be continued.......
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Old 07-29-2005, 02:03 PM   #96
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K2m,

Does it still have the mid-range to "snap" the chain and get the front light on the top at WOT?

Would there be any advantage to trying a smaller pilot?
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Old 07-29-2005, 03:11 PM   #97
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Thanks for that.... someone else is using clip #4 and commenting on this power hit in the mid range. The first time I experienced it I was in peak hour traffic and had to change my undies......

Having completed another test last night I can now say that the pilot jets #38 #40 can now be removed from the test.

This is unfortunate as the opportunity to lean cruse, therefore add 50 > 100km to the tank is lost. We would need fuel Injection for that. I will inject this bike later when Injectors become available for a good price. I am looking at a pair of Ducati injectors later this week. Twin injectors per body. It all depends on measurements.

The pilots are to important to the overall fuel curve. It looks like the #45s are the go with a turn out of between .3 and 1.5...............


For those who wish to know my final settings.... With out the explanations

Pilot #38
Needle FP #5 clip

1 turn out ( I like a mean lean clean idle. !.5 to 1.75 will also work) AFR= 13.5

Mains......160, 165 AFR= 11.8- 12.2 @ WOT. Not ideal but necessary to avoid slight lean area in 5000 - 7000 rpm

Float 2.1mm

Bike is very smooth to drive in traffic (by LC8 standards)

any Improvements will come much slower now




Needle position will be #4 or #5(which is a half step)

Mains 155 & 160 ( 158 & 163 would work very nice)


This is unfortunate as the opportunity to lean cruse, therefore add 50 > 100km to the tank is lost. We would need fuel Injection for that. I will inject this bike later when Injectors become available for a good price. I am looking at a pair of Ducati injectors later this week. Twin injectors per body. It all depends on measurements.......................


I will explain later no time today This new combo is spot on close..............


I did ... #45 is a total flood..... on #4 clip.......... really bad, and still to lean @ 5000-6000rpm with 155 & 160

I will explain later no time today This new combo is spot on close.


2nd day.... My ride to work is a 4pm 20km traffic trip cutting across Sydney not really with or against traffic. Today I spent a lot of time lite throttle 3000-4000 rpm. No hunting, no surging, just perfect throttle control.

The #38 pilot @ 1 turn ..... the only way to go better would be to set the Co. as per what KTMax said.

By raising the needle you rich-en the 1/8 throttle range. That's why I use the #38
Any bigger will flood it.

The #38 will only work well with the #5 clip position on the needle.

#38's are only available through Factory Pro. They use them in R6's I think!... Yam Something.....no Kawa.... buggered if I know.

You need to use the #5th to maintain near perfect AFR's right through the rev range approaching WOT.

To be continued.......

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K2m can you please clairify what works best. Above are clips from your posts. First you said #45 in 4th position made you crap your pants, then later you said it was a flood. After you talked about #38 pilots you said the were no longer to be considered, then you list them as your final setting. Fark, I'm confussed to say the least, can you please clairify for me, I must be a little thick today.
I'm waiting as I type to change my jetting as I just did a valve adjustment today, and I have to lean the mains a little so I thought of trying the #45 pilot and 4th clip on FP needle. Just clarify your position on this for me again please then I can make a decision with your help. Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-29-2005, 11:49 PM   #98
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Katoum, I think this is what you are refering to:

"I have dropped down one level on the mains to 155-160 and raised the FP needle to #4 with brilliant A/F ratio results I will leave these as they are. #4 on the FP is the equivalent of #3.5 on the Stock (I went to raise my needles from #2 to #3clip and discovered that they were on #3 already sorry WSMC99)

But still have issues with the pilot jet currently #42@ .5 turn out. I have a good collection of pilots #38 #40 #42 #45......

With these settings the hit in the mid range feels like it wants to brake the chain, and at WOT the front feels very lite the A/F is 12-13 all the way with 14-15 cruse. I run the 17T front sprocket and have run the 16T."
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Old 07-30-2005, 07:46 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmc99
Katoum, I think this is what you are refering to:

"I have dropped down one level on the mains to 155-160 and raised the FP needle to #4 with brilliant A/F ratio results I will leave these as they are. #4 on the FP is the equivalent of #3.5 on the Stock (I went to raise my needles from #2 to #3clip and discovered that they were on #3 already sorry WSMC99)

But still have issues with the pilot jet currently #42@ .5 turn out. I have a good collection of pilots #38 #40 #42 #45......

With these settings the hit in the mid range feels like it wants to brake the chain, and at WOT the front feels very lite the A/F is 12-13 all the way with 14-15 cruse. I run the 17T front sprocket and have run the 16T."
I changed my settings last night before reading this post. I changed the mains to 165F 168 R and moved the FP needle to #4 position. The pilot may still be to rich because last time I tried a #45 I was at .5 turn out also to get the idle lean enough. My concern with running smaller sizes less than #42 is they are proun to plugging easily, as I had problems of this nature on my old Suzuki 400. Oh well there is still a little life left in the wood screws so I will continue to try more settings.
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Old 07-30-2005, 04:55 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmc99
K2m,

Does it still have the mid-range to "snap" the chain and get the front light on the top at WOT?

Would there be any advantage to trying a smaller pilot?
Yep ... the snap is still there, also that lite feel to the front wheel approaching red line.

The smallest pilot factory make in the 78 series jets is #38 I was thinking of contacting Marc Salvisberg to see if he could supply #36 & #34. At the same time order a #158 & #162 mains. That will give me some more options in the future. Marc's a great guy.... very helpful. When I get some feedback from other LC8 owners on this set up I will discus these jetting changes with him.

Sorry for the confusion KATOUM, you must read the posts as a work in progress. The only settings that matter are the last ones. Earlier posts are a record of how I got there. When you change one thing it has an affect everywhere. Just when you have it sussed..... it does the opposite.
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Old 07-30-2005, 05:04 PM   #101
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Float level

All Jets are affected by the float level

Mine is sett at 2.1mm (carbs together, right side float)

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/carbt...m_engines.html

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/float...procedure.html

To be continued....
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Old 07-30-2005, 06:45 PM   #102
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http://www.sudco.com/catalog105/119.pdf

are they any of these?
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Old 07-30-2005, 07:51 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K2m
Yep ... the snap is still there, also that lite feel to the front wheel approaching red line.

The smallest pilot factory make in the 78 series jets is #38 I was thinking of contacting Marc Salvisberg to see if he could supply #36 & #34. At the same time order a #158 & #162 mains. That will give me some more options in the future. Marc's a great guy.... very helpful. When I get some feedback from other LC8 owners on this set up I will discus these jetting changes with him.

Sorry for the confusion KATOUM, you must read the posts as a work in progress. The only settings that matter are the last ones. Earlier posts are a record of how I got there. When you change one thing it has an affect everywhere. Just when you have it sussed..... it does the opposite.
While I tried the #45 pilot again today and it a total failure in my opinion. Can not a decent steady idle at anything past .5 turn out. Switched back to #42 and my old setting of 1.75 turns out no longer works. With a analyser I going by ear. What happens is I turn in till maximum rpm and then out .25-.50 turns. This setting seems to best I can achieve with the FP needle in #4 position. Throttle hangs of throttle blip for a few seconds then drops about 150 rpm and idle not to bad. What are your aural findings when you adjust the mixture with the bike running?
I suspect that my FP #45's are much larger than stamped, but no way to check as I have no jet drills.
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Old 07-30-2005, 08:33 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katoum
While I tried the #45 pilot again today and it a total failure in my opinion. Can not a decent steady idle at anything past .5 turn out. Switched back to #42 and my old setting of 1.75 turns out no longer works. With a analyser I going by ear. What happens is I turn in till maximum rpm and then out .25-.50 turns. This setting seems to best I can achieve with the FP needle in #4 position. Throttle hangs of throttle blip for a few seconds then drops about 150 rpm and idle not to bad. What are your aural findings when you adjust the mixture with the bike running?
I suspect that my FP #45's are much larger than stamped, but no way to check as I have no jet drills.
Okay this is my latest findings. I adjust the carbs using a Kawasaki curved end carb tool with the bike running. I do this by removing both tanks and taking a piece of small gas line and sticking it can of gas and then inside fuel line to fuel pump, works great as the gas can sit on ground out of way while you work.
I double checked the turns and I've settled on 1.25 turns out. At this setting the cabs do not hang at all on throttle blips, at idle is quite stable. It seems the richer needle setting has required a .5 turn in compared to my #3 clip on FPO needle which required 1.75 turns out for a nice idle. These cabs seem quite sensitive as to rich or to lean has a dramatic effect on how the motor returns to idle on throttle blips.
Kay enough of this shit, I'm going for a ride.
Cheers
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Old 07-31-2005, 01:11 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmc99
No you will only find them here http://www.factorypro.com/

It's the 78 series

Left side > half way down > Carb Jets
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