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Old 06-10-2012, 10:42 AM   #1
Murphy Slaw OP
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How Much Longer For Carburetors?

It seems thumpers are about the last bikes using carbs, and with the Tier 4 diesel (tractor) regulations on the verge of killing small farmers, I wonder how much longer the KLR, DR, etc will be allowed to use carbs?

And, if dis-allowed, will certain models even survive, or just be dropped.

These are strange days indeed.......
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #2
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About the only way I would buy a new KLR at present, is if, they did put FI on it. ;-)
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw View Post
It seems thumpers are about the last bikes using carbs, and with the Tier 4 diesel (tractor) regulations on the verge of killing small farmers, I wonder how much longer the KLR, DR, etc will be allowed to use carbs?

And, if dis-allowed, will certain models even survive, or just be dropped.

These are strange days indeed.......
You are right. The eco nazis are well founded with our tax money. And making progress.


I do not want FI motorcycles. The day I am forced to ride a FI bike, I will stop riding.


Why? I like thumpers. FI goes against everything I find practical and sensible. Take a simple and reliable design and throw in a lot of computers, pumps, injectors, sensors and you have the opposite.


To me a FI thumper is just about the ultimate in stupidity. I had a XT660R this summer, nice bike to ride but FI. The more I learned about it, the less I liked it. It even had “tilt sensor” of some sort, just the thing to go bad in the middle of nowhere. I sold the bike and will not buy another FI bike.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:53 PM   #4
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Well, I'm glad I already have my carbed thumper. I love my KLR 650. So simple. So capable. I'm more confident of it in boonies than I am in my GS. The KLR can be fixed with duct tape and bailing wire, the GS needs to come with a German engineer.

That said, I do like my GS.

I also have a WR250X (punched out to 290). I really like the FI on that bike. With all of the mods that I have done, it sure is a lot easier to dial it in with the PC5 & Autotune than it would be with needles and jets. Of course, the WR-X is more of an urban assault vehicle, and I'm never too far from civilization, and a tow if needed.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:19 PM   #5
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Different Strokes for Different folks. If I want to run an open airbox and pipe on my KTM690 it's a 10 minute process to upgrade the FI system, no futzing with jets etc.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:28 PM   #6
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Wow!...the carb vs. FI debate is about as bad as an oil thread.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by G600 View Post
Why? I like thumpers. FI goes against everything I find practical and sensible. Take a simple and reliable design and throw in a lot of computers, pumps, injectors, sensors and you have the opposite.

To me a FI thumper is just about the ultimate in stupidity. I had a XT660R this summer, nice bike to ride but FI. The more I learned about it, the less I liked it. It even had “tilt sensor” of some sort, just the thing to go bad in the middle of nowhere. I sold the bike and will not buy another FI bike.
Your opinion is very valid and your points good. Simplicity trumps features when you're talking about long term reliability out in back country conditions. But your views are probably in the minority. I think the reason you're seeing more FI thumpers is because that's what people want! People demand more power on the same displacement with less routine maintenance! I don't think it's "eco-nazis" or some other imaginary boogeyman that's causing bike manufacturers to upgrade and modernize. I think it's just a capitalist market at work - more and more people demand more from their bikes than a carb can provide. Why aren't they making carb sport bikes anymore? Because a carb sport bike wouldn't sell, simple as that!

Comparing a modern car to a FI thumper is like comparing a mountain bike and a GSXR - for me I'm relieved to be working on a FI thumper as opposed to a modern auto and I'm constantly praising yamaha engineers for their simplicity & intuitive design: recently I purchased the WR250R over larger cc carbureted competitors because for my life, FI is just more simple. The WR has a maintenance schedule like a street bike and posts speed numbers (0-60, 1/4 mile) like a late 80s Porsche 911 (not to mention most mid level modern sports cars). Honestly FI seems good enough for me!

...And this is how I tune my fuel map, with a 3 button controller. Talk about simplicity!

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Old 06-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #8
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Whoa is me... What will those that only buy brand new do?

Re: Eco Nazi's... I wonder how much longer WE'LL put up with it? They neuter weedeaters too,,, with a small screen you can pull out of the exhaust port with a pair of pliers... And all for billions and billions a year in public and government funding.

Otherwise, EFI is superior to Carb. And those that think the systems will be big, bulky and complex... Really need a new hobby b/c the EFI on cars have done NOTHING but get smaller smaller smaller and less complex.


Though (the intrusive) OBD-II, depends on how you look at it.



Same EXACT(!) Bore, Stroke, Cam, Heads, Valves, etc.

Toyota 22R, 97hp.

22R/E, 112-115 depending on who you ask...
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Everybody's always talking out the side of their mouths about our "dependency on foreign oil", what about our dependency on cheap china crap? Who exactly again is killing our dollar?

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Old 06-10-2012, 02:14 PM   #9
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... I don't think it's "eco-nazis" or some other imaginary boogeyman that's causing bike manufacturers to upgrade and modernize....
No. The ever stricter emission regulation are driving carbs out, at least in Europe. In Europe we have new, stricter regulation every few years (Euro3, Euro4....) and flocks of "eco-nazis" and bureaucrats leading the way. I don't know how it is in the USA, but you probably are a little more sensible.


Don't get me wrong, FI has its place for those that want it. It offers great flexibility and performance. But it does not compare to the carbs when it comes to reliability and simplicity. New is new ... but after a few years there will be failing electronics and all sorts of gremlins. Ask my friend with a FI 450 gasgas ´05 or ´06.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #10
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So FI gives more power, better efficiency and reduced emissions. Damn those "Eco Nazis"
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #11
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...

...And this is how I tune my fuel map, with a 3 button controller. Talk about simplicity!

Now that is clever. Not for me, but I see your point.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #12
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.. I wonder how much longer the KLR, DR, etc will be allowed to use carbs?...
We are one battery breakthrough away from doing away with the internal combustion engine altogether. It won't be much longer.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #13
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but after a few years there will be failing electronics and all sorts of gremlins. Ask my friend with a FI 450 gasgas ´05 or ´06.

Your argument is just exactly like comparing the EFI system of a Toyota to that of a Lucas. Google Search: Lucas Prince of Darkness

All EFI is, is sensors, connectors, wires and a ECU.

Made properly all you'd have to replace is what the CEL tells you to... Dot dot dot, dash dash dash...
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Everybody's always talking out the side of their mouths about our "dependency on foreign oil", what about our dependency on cheap china crap? Who exactly again is killing our dollar?

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Old 06-10-2012, 02:45 PM   #14
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So FI gives more power, better efficiency and reduced emissions. Damn those "Eco Nazis"
Yes. But it also transforms a simple and reliable fuelling system to a complex one. Definitely a bad thing for someone that rides in a remote place or simply wants things easy.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:50 PM   #15
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Yes. But it also transforms a simple and reliable fuelling system to a complex one. Definitely a bad thing for someone that rides in a remote place or simply wants things easy.
Like those that represent that market share (-1%), I recommend they convert to Carb.

Otherwise, just like off-roading (or those needing a REAL work truck, or non-club hunting) it's only a matter of time before that activity is on the endangered species list.


Let a few riders litter or file a liability claim on the property owner and that'd be all she wrote of that. Otherwise their numbers do not represent a large enough share of a market to cater to them.
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Everybody's always talking out the side of their mouths about our "dependency on foreign oil", what about our dependency on cheap china crap? Who exactly again is killing our dollar?

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